Official SF Game Thread

[thebettingman]

USF fan here, checking in on what y'all had to say about the game last night. This is indeed a home-and-home, so you will see USF back in NY next year. Contrary to one post I saw in this thread, the Dons have no seniors (Doolin and De'End Parker are both juniors). Parker played briefly at UCLA last season before getting hurt and was granted a redshirt. Assuming no Dons leave in the offseason, you will see this exact same team, with the addition of Matt Glover, a 6'5" redshirt junior guard that started 21 games last season at Penn St.

The best thing I can say about what I saw from the Johnnies last night is that they rebounded well. USF was leading the country in Defensive Rebounding % (still are) and had outrebounded every opponent this season before last night. I doubt we will see many games where the Dons give up 12 offensive boards. I will also point out that the 3pt shooting from USF is not exactly an outlier as the Dons are leading the nation in three-point shooting. I agree that the Johnnies definitely could have rotated better, though.

The WCC is far from the Big East in terms of overall talent, but we are definitely not a bad conference. Gonzaga, BYU, and Saint Mary's are all quality teams, and overall the WCC was better than the Pac-12 last season (and just might be better this season, too). As has been mentioned here, the Dons *were* favored last night (and incidentally have covered all their games so far this season), so the loss shouldn't be a huge surprise to anyone.

Based on what I saw last night, I think Harrison is probably your best player, but he definitely needs some better shot-selection. Sampson seems to shoot like he's setting a volleyball....really weird release. The Johnnies had an overwhelming athletic advantage (probably the key difference between the WCC and the Big East, quite frankly), and I think a better gameplan from Coach Lavin would have made this one much tighter than the final score. Your team definitely has a lot of fight in them, as witnessed by that 10-0 run. Too bad they couldn't come up with something to stop Cody Doolin, who carved up every player they threw at him.

Best of luck to you guys in the Big East this season and look forward to seeing a great game next season in NY!

 

[westchesterjoe]

I would have hoped to see more defensive intensity, more lock down ability and a capability to defense opponents 3 point shooting.. it hasn't happened yet in the last 2 years with this group and despite their athleticism, which may have been overrated, needs to improve significantly if even a .500 record is going to be attained.

And, I was only thinking for a moment, about actually enjoying the watching of Lavin's first team, with Hardy,Horne, Burrell, none of whom he recruited, than this current group, more talented though they may be. But, that quickly passed.

All Coaches have "systems," for offense and defense, which they install early on in practice. So far, I've barely seen glimpses of much except one on one BB, at both ends of the Court. More would/should be expected of a Coach with Lavin's credentials. Walter's USF team with less heralded players beat the pants off us. And, they looked better Coached as well.

College BB Coaches,with rare exception, get between 3-5 years to turn their programs into consistent winners and this should be enough time to get the job done.If they don't, they pay the penalty meaning loss of the job.

Crean, at Indiana, is in his 4th or 5th year I believe, and while SJU is not Indiana, he's got the number 1 team and a recruiting class for next year that ranks near the top. He's also not typically a "one and done Coach," like Cal is.

My point being, at some point, Lavin has to achieve a goal of competitive, winning BB..He gets another season or two to do this but, not any more. 5 years is the measuring level. Steve knows this better than we do.

I'm hoping things improve.

 

[LINY89]

SF really isn't THAT good, our defense just had its worst game all year and let a mid major team shoot 50% and 60% from 3. SF is by no means a juggernaut. They played the game of their lives and will likely shoot 30% from 3 the next game. Anyone can get hot on any given night. Had to expect that we lose at least 1 of these OOC games other than Murray or Baylor, so let's win the rest and we are in a good spot.

They were favored.
Not an upset.
I'll stick with my 16-14 record.
Team just isn't good enough.

Just to add, this is the third game in a row where USF has shot over 50% from 3. Pretty unbelievable stuff. De'end is shooting 75% from 3PG after his 3-3 last night. That will have to correct itself at some point I imagine.

All that means is they are going to be ice cold for a while. 75% is just ridiculous...those swishes will turn into clunks off the rim very soon. Too bad it won't be against us. If we shot 40% from 3 (doable IMO with D'Lo and Marco) and stopped some of their 3's we might have won.

 

[Class of 72]

After the NJIT win, this outcome against a very good USF team did not surprise me in the least.
What is surprising is the decline in the level of play by players like Phil and D'Lo. Our backcourt was horrendous last night in almost every aspect of the game. Phil is not a PG but now we see he is neither a shooting guard. D'Lo has poor decision making skills and a poor handle.
Jakarr is the star of this team and will only get better if Branch is as advertised.
USF was much better prepared for this game and their players were more cerebral while our guys were playing confused defense.
Once again we allowed a player, Doolin in this case, to have a career night. 14 assists?? He made Harrison, Greene and Pointer look slow and Lavin obviously could not catch up to the USF coach in game preparation.
If, by the end of the first semester, there is no Gift and no Sanchez, this will be a long year on our front line.
Signing the only two high level recruits that have us high on their list becomes critical otherwise we will go into years 4 and 5 with better players than Norm Roberst but not much better records. That will not bring this program back and all the billboards in Times Square will not help put fans in the seats.

 

[Marillac]

The euphoric / gloom and doom extremes are funny. We are a decent team at this point, but one that lacks leadership. Lavin is a very good recruiter and decent game coach; he obviously did not properly adjust last night and lay off the point guard but he has made good adjustments in other games. At the end of the day, we are flawed, no point guard being the most glaring weakness. Lavin seems married to the helter skelter style and against some teams, especially those with good guard play (see Baylor and USF) that style can be exploited. Lay the blame on Lavin for both, but Harkless going after one year combined with Sanchez being ineligible has put a serious dent in the program. Make no mistake, Sanchez is a very talented, experienced, poised player. On this team his biggest contributions would have been his experience and excellent passing ability. Anyway, our program is light yeears ahead of where it was, and IMO not nearly it is going to eventually be. It takes time to build a program, just the way it is.

I agree -- no time to panic. But if we have a sub-par year this year and lose Harrison and/or Sampson, can we truly expect to be "special" next year? Outside of the Kentuckys of the world, it's very difficult to have success without experience.

Regardless, many on the board took it to heart that Jones was not as good as advertised and this ridiculous thing about his rebounding got legs

That's how the rebounding thing got legs? It wasn' t the fact that Jones only averaged five rebounds a game in high school combined with the fact that he has failed secure a single offensive rebound in eight of his nine college games, even though he's averaging 15 mpg at PF? Balamou, by comparison, had 3 offensive rebounds in just 14 minutes last night. That is more offensive rebounds Jones has ALL SEASON, and Balamou did it in less minutes than Jones averages per game.

Maybe this kid turns it around--he's only a frosh afterall--but he has no track record of rebounding...not in 1/3 of a season of college, not as a 5th-year prep at IMG, and not in high school.

 

[Class of 72]

The euphoric / gloom and doom extremes are funny. We are a decent team at this point, but one that lacks leadership. Lavin is a very good recruiter and decent game coach; he obviously did not properly adjust last night and lay off the point guard but he has made good adjustments in other games. At the end of the day, we are flawed, no point guard being the most glaring weakness. Lavin seems married to the helter skelter style and against some teams, especially those with good guard play (see Baylor and USF) that style can be exploited. Lay the blame on Lavin for both, but Harkless going after one year combined with Sanchez being ineligible has put a serious dent in the program. Make no mistake, Sanchez is a very talented, experienced, poised player. On this team his biggest contributions would have been his experience and excellent passing ability. Anyway, our program is light yeears ahead of where it was, and IMO not nearly it is going to eventually be. It takes time to build a program, just the way it is.

I agree -- no time to panic. But if we have a sub-par year this year and lose Harrison and/or Sampson, can we truly expect to be "special" next year? Outside of the Kentuckys of the world, it's very difficult to have success without experience.

Regardless, many on the board took it to heart that Jones was not as good as advertised and this ridiculous thing about his rebounding got legs

That's how the rebounding thing got legs? It wasn' t the fact that Jones only averaged five rebounds a game in high school combined with the fact that he has failed secure a single offensive rebound in eight of his nine college games, even though he's averaging 15 mpg at PF? Balamou, by comparison, had 3 offensive rebounds in just 14 minutes last night. That is more offensive rebounds Jones has ALL SEASON, and Balamou did it in less minutes than Jones averages per game.

Maybe this kid turns it around--he's only a frosh afterall--but he has no track record of rebounding...not in 1/3 of a season of college, not as a 5th-year prep at IMG, and not in high school.

I am very disappointed that Jones has virtually disappeared in just eight games after being rewarded by Lavin with a starting job. Those practices were definitely not as intense as coach Ds!! You earn a starting job in practice! Lavin will learn soon enough that New Yorkers and redmen fans in particular are short of patience when it comes to false advertising about players.
In the past three years players like Polee, Remi Barry, Nurideen Lindsey, Pelle and now Harrson, Greene, Pointer were praised by Lavin to the point some of us felt they were sure-fire future pros. Of the 7, only Harrison has a chance....in Europe.
Sanchez, also ballyhooed by the coach, may never suit up. Marco seems lost on the court.
Time for Lavin to be more on the level with players potential.

 

[mjmaherjr]

This was a tough game to watch. Only positive things to take is each time they had an open 3 shot and buried it against us I could picture Joe3's head exploding in rage because it was certainly driving us crazy at the game also.

I found myself counting the minutes to post game drinks with some of the redmen.com west coast crew.

Oddly enough after only 2 beers I was completely wiped out tired but I did try that " Pliny The Elder " beer that LJSA or someone else recommended and I liked it a lot

 

[logen]

The euphoric / gloom and doom extremes are funny. We are a decent team at this point, but one that lacks leadership. Lavin is a very good recruiter and decent game coach; he obviously did not properly adjust last night and lay off the point guard but he has made good adjustments in other games. At the end of the day, we are flawed, no point guard being the most glaring weakness. Lavin seems married to the helter skelter style and against some teams, especially those with good guard play (see Baylor and USF) that style can be exploited. Lay the blame on Lavin for both, but Harkless going after one year combined with Sanchez being ineligible has put a serious dent in the program. Make no mistake, Sanchez is a very talented, experienced, poised player. On this team his biggest contributions would have been his experience and excellent passing ability. Anyway, our program is light yeears ahead of where it was, and IMO not nearly it is going to eventually be. It takes time to build a program, just the way it is.

I agree -- no time to panic. But if we have a sub-par year this year and lose Harrison and/or Sampson, can we truly expect to be "special" next year? Outside of the Kentuckys of the world, it's very difficult to have success without experience.

Regardless, many on the board took it to heart that Jones was not as good as advertised and this ridiculous thing about his rebounding got legs

That's how the rebounding thing got legs? It wasn' t the fact that Jones only averaged five rebounds a game in high school combined with the fact that he has failed secure a single offensive rebound in eight of his nine college games, even though he's averaging 15 mpg at PF? Balamou, by comparison, had 3 offensive rebounds in just 14 minutes last night. That is more offensive rebounds Jones has ALL SEASON, and Balamou did it in less minutes than Jones averages per game.

Maybe this kid turns it around--he's only a frosh afterall--but he has no track record of rebounding...not in 1/3 of a season of college, not as a 5th-year prep at IMG, and not in high school.

I'm sorry, you can cite all the stats you want; they mean nothing to me. I judge players by what I see and if you knew anything about ball you would to. Jones has certainly not shown he is a rebounder but I have also not seen his men dominate us on the boards so the jury is still out. And frankly, anyone who tells me they can judge a player by merely looking at stats has less than no credability with me. So answer my posts with your stats and your film breakdowns all you want, I enjoy the laugh.

 

[austour]

SF really isn't THAT good, our defense just had its worst game all year and let a mid major team shoot 50% and 60% from 3. SF is by no means a juggernaut. They played the game of their lives and will likely shoot 30% from 3 the next game. Anyone can get hot on any given night. Had to expect that we lose at least 1 of these OOC games other than Murray or Baylor, so let's win the rest and we are in a good spot.

They were favored.
Not an upset.
I'll stick with my 16-14 record.
Team just isn't good enough.

Just to add, this is the third game in a row where USF has shot over 50% from 3. Pretty unbelievable stuff. De'end is shooting 75% from 3PG after his 3-3 last night. That will have to correct itself at some point I imagine.

All that means is they are going to be ice cold for a while. 75% is just ridiculous...those swishes will turn into clunks off the rim very soon. Too bad it won't be against us. If we shot 40% from 3 (doable IMO with D'Lo and Marco) and stopped some of their 3's we might have won.

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

 

[JackofVirginia]

SF really isn't THAT good, our defense just had its worst game all year and let a mid major team shoot 50% and 60% from 3. SF is by no means a juggernaut. They played the game of their lives and will likely shoot 30% from 3 the next game. Anyone can get hot on any given night. Had to expect that we lose at least 1 of these OOC games other than Murray or Baylor, so let's win the rest and we are in a good spot.

They were favored.
Not an upset.
I'll stick with my 16-14 record.
Team just isn't good enough.

Just to add, this is the third game in a row where USF has shot over 50% from 3. Pretty unbelievable stuff. De'end is shooting 75% from 3PG after his 3-3 last night. That will have to correct itself at some point I imagine.

Wouldnt mind so much seeing USF make the 3 if they were contested. But they had to many wide open looks. Its a combination of youth and coaching,

Doesn't seem like the coaches have adjusted. Same all, same all.

 

[bobre45]

A number of weaknesses were exposed tonight. We were scouted to a tee. One issue was something I brought up before. Stop Harrison, and you stop St. John's. He was doubled the entire second half. When that happened, we had no guard play. None. Harrison showed the frustration. He better get used to it. Doolin took at least three different players off the dribble for lay ups. Either he is an All-American, or we made him look like one. Obviously, it's the latter. Branch can't get here soon enough. There won't be time for a breaking- in period.

What I saw was DLo being handled one on one by 32 - Derkson. He did not enjoy the sagging "D" and wide open shots the Dons did. DLo was still getting free occasionally but his shadow never left and he never got started. This is CYO stuff ie; put your best defender on the top scorer and give Karr his. I guess Steve never coached CYO.

 

[austour]

Boy I hate it when it says last post by Bobre and then it's already gone. I was really looking forward to his lucid analysis of last night's debacle.

 

[Marillac]

The euphoric / gloom and doom extremes are funny. We are a decent team at this point, but one that lacks leadership. Lavin is a very good recruiter and decent game coach; he obviously did not properly adjust last night and lay off the point guard but he has made good adjustments in other games. At the end of the day, we are flawed, no point guard being the most glaring weakness. Lavin seems married to the helter skelter style and against some teams, especially those with good guard play (see Baylor and USF) that style can be exploited. Lay the blame on Lavin for both, but Harkless going after one year combined with Sanchez being ineligible has put a serious dent in the program. Make no mistake, Sanchez is a very talented, experienced, poised player. On this team his biggest contributions would have been his experience and excellent passing ability. Anyway, our program is light yeears ahead of where it was, and IMO not nearly it is going to eventually be. It takes time to build a program, just the way it is.

I agree -- no time to panic. But if we have a sub-par year this year and lose Harrison and/or Sampson, can we truly expect to be "special" next year? Outside of the Kentuckys of the world, it's very difficult to have success without experience.

Regardless, many on the board took it to heart that Jones was not as good as advertised and this ridiculous thing about his rebounding got legs

That's how the rebounding thing got legs? It wasn' t the fact that Jones only averaged five rebounds a game in high school combined with the fact that he has failed secure a single offensive rebound in eight of his nine college games, even though he's averaging 15 mpg at PF? Balamou, by comparison, had 3 offensive rebounds in just 14 minutes last night. That is more offensive rebounds Jones has ALL SEASON, and Balamou did it in less minutes than Jones averages per game.

Maybe this kid turns it around--he's only a frosh afterall--but he has no track record of rebounding...not in 1/3 of a season of college, not as a 5th-year prep at IMG, and not in high school.

I'm sorry, you can cite all the stats you want; they mean nothing to me. I judge players by what I see and if you knew anything about ball you would to. Jones has certainly not shown he is a rebounder but I have also not seen his men dominate us on the boards so the jury is still out. And frankly, anyone who tells me they can judge a player by merely looking at stats has less than no credability with me. So answer my posts with your stats and your film breakdowns all you want, I enjoy the laugh.

When did I ever write that a player can be judged by only looking at stats? Stats don't always tell the whole story...everyone on this site understands that. They are far from useless, though. If a kid shot 16% fom three in high school, 17% from three as a fifth-year prep, and then 12% through the first 1/3 of his freshman season, it tells you something, right? Then, when you see awful mechanics with your own eyes, it makes your suspicion that much stronger.

Jones floats, stands around, and plays soft. Anyone that has watched our games closely will agree with that. It makes it that much more obvious when you see Amir running around like a maniac for rebounds. Then you look at the stats and eight out of nine games without an offensive rebound for a kid that averages 15 mpg at the POWER FORWARD position is just absurd. Apparently the staff agrees because he has gone from 29 minutes to five.

 

[MCNPA]

Now to preface this, I didn't see the game last night because I was working, but I was curious about Cody Doolin so I google searched video and this is what I came up with. Now there has been a lot of talk about strategy, coaching issues etc. I watch these highlights and see nothing but individual breakdowns and lazy defense. Don't know if strategy can help anything I see in the video. This highlight reel is all in one game and our guys are just lazying around, standing up straight and just getting beat to position. I don't care what defense the coaches installed. Watch the video, it's just about all there. If the kids don't improve the fundamentals of defense, there is no amount of tweaking that can be done to the schemes that can help.

=youtube_gdata_player

 

[mjmaherjr]

Now to preface this, I didn't see the game last night because I wasn't working, but I was curious about Cody Doolin so I google searched video and this is what I came up with. Now there has been a lot of talk about strategy, coaching issues etc. I watch these highlights and see nothing but individual breakdowns and lazy defense. Don't know if strategy can help anything I see in the video. This highlight reel is all in one game and our guys are just lazying around, standing up straight and just getting beat to position. I don't care what defense the coaches installed. Watch the video, it's just about all there. If the kids don't improve the fundamentals of defense, there is no amount of tweaking that can be done to the schemes that can help.

=youtube_gdata_player

This wasnt a game that was just on the kids. This was on everyone. Yeah the kids play the game but there were so many breakdowns and so many things wrong that it's on everyone

Every one and a while you just throw up an egg. This was honestly one of the worst games I've seen in awhile.

It's annoying but it happens to everyone but this was a game that's on team and coach.

Worst thing for me is where I kind of thought the win total would be by year end makes me think this could be a bubble buster game but we'll see.

There just wasnt anything to take positive out of the game other than better rebounding.

Lets smack Pecora around saturday

 

[MCNPA]

Now to preface this, I didn't see the game last night because I wasn't working, but I was curious about Cody Doolin so I google searched video and this is what I came up with. Now there has been a lot of talk about strategy, coaching issues etc. I watch these highlights and see nothing but individual breakdowns and lazy defense. Don't know if strategy can help anything I see in the video. This highlight reel is all in one game and our guys are just lazying around, standing up straight and just getting beat to position. I don't care what defense the coaches installed. Watch the video, it's just about all there. If the kids don't improve the fundamentals of defense, there is no amount of tweaking that can be done to the schemes that can help.

=youtube_gdata_player

This wasnt a game that was just on the kids. This was on everyone. Yeah the kids play the game but there were so many breakdowns and so many things wrong that it's on everyone

Every one and a while you just throw up an egg. This was honestly one of the worst games I've seen in awhile.

It's annoying but it happens to everyone but this was a game that's on team and coach.

Worst thing for me is where I kind of thought the win total would be by year end makes me think this could be a bubble buster game but we'll see.

There just wasnt anything to take positive out of the game other than better rebounding.

Lets smack Pecora around saturday

Not saying it isnt on the coaches. The coaches are the ones that have to teach the kids how to defend. If they don't buy in, they will lose like they did yesterday. To clarify my point, I don't think any defense we threw at them would work if our individual defense looks like what I saw in this video. The fundamentals were terrible. Players not getting down low, losing their men etc. Glad I didn't watch the game.

I know the kids are capable. I just want to know what happened to the team that played D in the second half of the NJiT game? They really defended well there, and it seems NJIT ran a similar dribble and kick type game as USF did.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Now to preface this, I didn't see the game last night because I wasn't working, but I was curious about Cody Doolin so I google searched video and this is what I came up with. Now there has been a lot of talk about strategy, coaching issues etc. I watch these highlights and see nothing but individual breakdowns and lazy defense. Don't know if strategy can help anything I see in the video. This highlight reel is all in one game and our guys are just lazying around, standing up straight and just getting beat to position. I don't care what defense the coaches installed. Watch the video, it's just about all there. If the kids don't improve the fundamentals of defense, there is no amount of tweaking that can be done to the schemes that can help.

=youtube_gdata_player

This wasnt a game that was just on the kids. This was on everyone. Yeah the kids play the game but there were so many breakdowns and so many things wrong that it's on everyone

Every one and a while you just throw up an egg. This was honestly one of the worst games I've seen in awhile.

It's annoying but it happens to everyone but this was a game that's on team and coach.

Worst thing for me is where I kind of thought the win total would be by year end makes me think this could be a bubble buster game but we'll see.

There just wasnt anything to take positive out of the game other than better rebounding.

Lets smack Pecora around saturday

Not saying it isnt on the coaches. The coaches are the ones that have to teach the kids how to defend. Mi they don't buy in, they will lose like they did yesterday. I just don't think any defense we threw at them would work if our individual defense looks like what I saw in this video.

The thing is for me that other games this year we specifially played more man to cut down open 3 looks. Our d yesterday was flat out bad. They had so many open looks it was crazy. That's on the coaches when there are that many breakdowns

And our ball rotation on offense was real bad also. Not crisp at all. I dont know who's fault that is and I was getting sick and tired of seeing #45 take it to the hole and scoring.

On the bright side went to an awesome Italian restaurant in San Fran tonight. Really awesome

 

[L J S A]

On the bright side went to an awesome Italian restaurant in San Fran tonight. Really awesome

I think that was my problem: I grabbed some Subway on the run last night and it didn't do much to take the sting out of the game.

What restaurant did you guys go to?

 

[Marillac]

I don't really care where the blame goes, but the defense is awful right now. Harrison can't cover anyone, ever. There is a complete inability for anyone on this team to stop quick guards. To make matters worse, STJ is one of the worst rebounding teams in the country. I am discouraged becuase I wonder why we even play this zone if we aren't going to pressure the ball like crazy? Where are the traps? Where is the pressure? In man, our guys can't get around screens and we are forced to switch on everything. Help defense is insanely slow to react and when it does come they overpursue, making it impossible to get back to the open three-point shooter.

There is still so many good things I see to go to the doom and gloom side, however. I just wish the defense was further along at this point.

 

[mjmaherjr]

On the bright side went to an awesome Italian restaurant in San Fran tonight. Really awesome

I think that was my problem: I grabbed some Subway on the run last night and it didn't do much to take the sting out of the game.

What restaurant did you guys go to?

Venticello up in the nob hill area. It was highly recommended by one of Nathalie's friends. Loved that area and the restaurant was totally our type of restaurant. Awesome ambiance great service and delicious food