Offensive Rebounding

M

Marillac

Active member
One of the biggest keys to winning in March is offensive rebounding. Here’s how we stand lately:

Simon has ZERO in the last three games and only two in the last five.

Clark has four in the last six games

Keita is Keita

Roberts had four in just 14 minutes against Providence and directed two others to Ponds.

How are Simon and Clark allowed to completely ignore this facet of the game? Clark hits shots ok, but why is the Big East’s worst shooter on perimeter all game when he can’t shoot or drive? How can this kid get 7 defensive boards in a game and not one offensive?
 
[quote="Marillac" post=322668]One of the biggest keys to winning in March is offensive rebounding. Here’s how we stand lately:

Simon has ZERO in the last three games and only two in the last five.

Clark has four in the last six games

Keita is Keita

Roberts had four in just 14 minutes against Providence and directed two others to Ponds.

How are Simon and Clark allowed to completely ignore this facet of the game? Clark hits shots ok, but why is the Big East’s worst shooter on perimeter all game when he can’t shoot or drive? How can this kid get 7 defensive boards in a game and not one offensive?[/quote]

Because this staff does not focus on offensive rebounding and doesn’t believe that’s it’s important. They rather have them get back on defense and stop transition for the opponent. That’s just their strategy. You can’t blame the players when the staff is not stressing it.
 
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Pretty tough to get offensive rebounds when the entire team except 1 player ( if we are lucky ) is even remotely not already running back after a shot
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=322671][quote="Marillac" post=322668]One of the biggest keys to winning in March is offensive rebounding. Here’s how we stand lately:

Simon has ZERO in the last three games and only two in the last five.

Clark has four in the last six games

Keita is Keita

Roberts had four in just 14 minutes against Providence and directed two others to Ponds.

How are Simon and Clark allowed to completely ignore this facet of the game? Clark hits shots ok, but why is the Big East’s worst shooter on perimeter all game when he can’t shoot or drive? How can this kid get 7 defensive boards in a game and not one offensive?[/quote]

Because this staff does not focus on offensive rebounding and doesn’t believe that’s it’s important. They rather have them get back on defense and stop transition for the opponent. That’s just their strategy. You can’t blame the players when the staff is not stressing it.[/quote]

Mullin is immune to criticism from him so yes he will blame the players. :evil: :whistle:
 
At this stage we are not deep enough to crash the offensive boards. LJ can do it occasionally but the risk of fouling is to great. When you crash the boards you tend to get offensive fouls out of aggression. Push from behind being the most common.We therefore get back into half court and play half court D and try to force turnovers. We are very good at forcing turnovers both in conference and OOC. I would bet with more depth in the future you will see a little more offensive rebounding,
 
Clark wasn't a rebounder in high school, so it was foolish of me to think he could be one this season when we needed someone to play big.

Never expected anything from Keita.

Simon can give us something. But he needs to be in position to give us something.
 
From what I understand the big reason we don't chase after it on the offensive glass is due to the little depth we have, by rushing to get back on D it saves the team of stupid fouls and much needed energy for a defensive possession. But, with the addition of Roberts into the lineup the past two games we suddenly have a 9 man rotation, however minimal contribution contribution the bench gives us. I would advocate or at least like to see us attack the offensive glass, I think we have the right arsenal of players to do it. These are great rebounding guards who have a knack for bringing down boards out of nowhere. If we can push our rotation to 9 in games, those guys from the bench can be ultra aggressive on the glass and be ok with picking up fouls. Williams and Roberts specifically along with the starters could really cause problems for other teams with their athleticism, Trimble would definitely be the last person I have going in for those. If we can attack the offensive glass effectively void of getting our starters deeper into foul trouble at least for spurts in the game I think it can go a long way. Figueroa does a great job of extending possessions for us without fouling. We saw it at the end of the Marquette game, when we got those two offensive rebounds with under two minutes remaining thus allowing us to take an incredible amount of time off the clock and help seal the game. If we implement this tactic along with pushing our rotation to 9 guys I think it will become even more valuable come tournament time. If we can get a handful of O rebounds during those games especially against a superior team, the opponent will begin to tense up and really up the pressure of that moment for those games. Also I want to point out that Braziller of the NYPost has stated unlike other teams, St John's is at its best when they are feeding off their offense opposed to most teams who's defense leads to offense. So, why not try to increase our time spent on the offensive end.
 
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[quote="Mean Gene" post=322671][quote="Marillac" post=322668]One of the biggest keys to winning in March is offensive rebounding. Here’s how we stand lately:

Simon has ZERO in the last three games and only two in the last five.

Clark has four in the last six games

Keita is Keita

Roberts had four in just 14 minutes against Providence and directed two others to Ponds.

How are Simon and Clark allowed to completely ignore this facet of the game? Clark hits shots ok, but why is the Big East’s worst shooter on perimeter all game when he can’t shoot or drive? How can this kid get 7 defensive boards in a game and not one offensive?[/quote]

Because this staff does not focus on offensive rebounding and doesn’t believe that’s it’s important. They rather have them get back on defense and stop transition for the opponent. That’s just their strategy. You can’t blame the players when the staff is not stressing it.[/quote]

The staff clearly doesn’t stress it, but you can blame the players too. Roberts crashes every shot and gets back on defense like he’s Usain Bolt.

Figgy crashes all the time.

Simon is flat-footed on the perimeter. Clark is always a step slow to start when he want to crash.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=322681][quote="Mean Gene" post=322671][quote="Marillac" post=322668]One of the biggest keys to winning in March is offensive rebounding. Here’s how we stand lately:

Simon has ZERO in the last three games and only two in the last five.

Clark has four in the last six games

Keita is Keita

Roberts had four in just 14 minutes against Providence and directed two others to Ponds.

How are Simon and Clark allowed to completely ignore this facet of the game? Clark hits shots ok, but why is the Big East’s worst shooter on perimeter all game when he can’t shoot or drive? How can this kid get 7 defensive boards in a game and not one offensive?[/quote]

Because this staff does not focus on offensive rebounding and doesn’t believe that’s it’s important. They rather have them get back on defense and stop transition for the opponent. That’s just their strategy. You can’t blame the players when the staff is not stressing it.[/quote]

The staff clearly doesn’t stress it, but you can blame the players too. Roberts crashes every shot and gets back on defense like he’s Usain Bolt.

Figgy crashes all the time.

Simon is flat-footed on the perimeter. Clark is always a step slow to start when he want to crash.[/quote]

Roberts has pretty fresh legs you know
 
[quote="RJGBOOTSY" post=322676]At this stage we are not deep enough to crash the offensive boards. LJ can do it occasionally but the risk of fouling is to great. When you crash the boards you tend to get offensive fouls out of aggression. Push from behind being the most common.We therefore get back into half court and play half court D and try to force turnovers. We are very good at forcing turnovers both in conference and OOC. I would bet with more depth in the future you will see a little more offensive rebounding,[/quote]

I don’t buy it. 98-99 team was great on the offensive glass and played 7 guys.
 
[quote="Moose" post=322682][quote="Marillac" post=322681][quote="Mean Gene" post=322671][quote="Marillac" post=322668]One of the biggest keys to winning in March is offensive rebounding. Here’s how we stand lately:

Simon has ZERO in the last three games and only two in the last five.

Clark has four in the last six games

Keita is Keita

Roberts had four in just 14 minutes against Providence and directed two others to Ponds.

How are Simon and Clark allowed to completely ignore this facet of the game? Clark hits shots ok, but why is the Big East’s worst shooter on perimeter all game when he can’t shoot or drive? How can this kid get 7 defensive boards in a game and not one offensive?[/quote]

Because this staff does not focus on offensive rebounding and doesn’t believe that’s it’s important. They rather have them get back on defense and stop transition for the opponent. That’s just their strategy. You can’t blame the players when the staff is not stressing it.[/quote]

The staff clearly doesn’t stress it, but you can blame the players too. Roberts crashes every shot and gets back on defense like he’s Usain Bolt.

Figgy crashes all the time.

Simon is flat-footed on the perimeter. Clark is always a step slow to start when he want to crash.[/quote]

Roberts has pretty fresh legs you know[/quote]

So does Keita.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=322684][quote="Moose" post=322682][quote="Marillac" post=322681][quote="Mean Gene" post=322671][quote="Marillac" post=322668]One of the biggest keys to winning in March is offensive rebounding. Here’s how we stand lately:

Simon has ZERO in the last three games and only two in the last five.

Clark has four in the last six games

Keita is Keita

Roberts had four in just 14 minutes against Providence and directed two others to Ponds.

How are Simon and Clark allowed to completely ignore this facet of the game? Clark hits shots ok, but why is the Big East’s worst shooter on perimeter all game when he can’t shoot or drive? How can this kid get 7 defensive boards in a game and not one offensive?[/quote]

Because this staff does not focus on offensive rebounding and doesn’t believe that’s it’s important. They rather have them get back on defense and stop transition for the opponent. That’s just their strategy. You can’t blame the players when the staff is not stressing it.[/quote]

The staff clearly doesn’t stress it, but you can blame the players too. Roberts crashes every shot and gets back on defense like he’s Usain Bolt.

Figgy crashes all the time.

Simon is flat-footed on the perimeter. Clark is always a step slow to start when he want to crash.[/quote]

Roberts has pretty fresh legs you know[/quote]

So does Keita.[/quote]

Not really. He had surgery
Actually he's just not good.
Moose called that pretty early btw
 
Lavin actually said that rebounding was over emphasized when he was coach. This is actually a pervasive strategy now in the NBA now that goes along with the "small ball" mentality and a lot of NBA teams don't play their bigs regularly or have smaller guys like Draymond Green doing the traditional work that was the two roles of the 4 and 5/ center and power forward and guys who are 5's are now three point shooters. This is not about Mullin being clueless or stubborn. He is following a strategy that the top franchises, coaches in the NBA and increasingly coaches in the NCAA are following. Like it or not, he is ahead of the curve on this.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=322683][quote="RJGBOOTSY" post=322676]At this stage we are not deep enough to crash the offensive boards. LJ can do it occasionally but the risk of fouling is to great. When you crash the boards you tend to get offensive fouls out of aggression. Push from behind being the most common.We therefore get back into half court and play half court D and try to force turnovers. We are very good at forcing turnovers both in conference and OOC. I would bet with more depth in the future you will see a little more offensive rebounding,[/quote]

I don’t buy it. 98-99 team was great on the offensive glass and played 7 guys.[/quote]

Different game. Pace of play is much quicker and more emphasis is placed on 3 point shooting that when missed translates into longer rebounds that allows defensive team to get out and run. We give up the offensive rebound to get back in half court and force turnovers. A trade off the coaches are willing to accept. I would prefer more offensive rebounding myself. I do not totally agree with the strategy but understand the strategy
 
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I guess, you could say, that our rebounding is offensive
 
There are a lot of opportunities for offensive rebounds because of the 3 point shot. Long rebounds, unpredictable bounces, defenders scrambling to get out on the shooter. These type of rebounds aren't dependent on size as much as quickness, good hands and awareness, and just being there. We don't get many off missed threes because we aren't there. We are already running back on d. Our guys are not natural rebounders, Too small, not committed enough, and questionable hands.

Simon had that defensive rebound late in the Butler game, and just couldn't squeeze it. When I spoke to Ty Grant not long ago, we talked about my favorite Redmen, Mel Davis. Ty remarked how Mel did everything strong. If he got one hand on the ball, it was his. And he only needed one hand, since he rebounded that way. But the errant 3 point shot rebounds don't require what we lack. Just giving up on them, especially since we miss our fair share, seems like a waste of an opportunity.
 
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[quote="Paul Massell" post=322687]Lavin actually said that rebounding was over emphasized when he was coach. This is actually a pervasive strategy now in the NBA now that goes along with the "small ball" mentality and a lot of NBA teams don't play their bigs regularly or have smaller guys like Draymond Green doing the traditional work that was the two roles of the 4 and 5/ center and power forward and guys who are 5's are now three point shooters. This is not about Mullin being clueless or stubborn. He is following a strategy that the top franchises, coaches in the NBA and increasingly coaches in the NCAA are following. Like it or not, he is ahead of the curve on this.[/quote]. agree PM but, most of our BE opponents seem to feel differently and do convert quite a few more Offrnsive Rebounds into baskets than we do .. And , since most of our Games are Razor close , not picking up 4-6 points here and there can be the difference in winning and losing . Also too, in those close games , we tend to bomb away from 3 point range , miss and not even try to get a put back . It gives opponents to go from a 2-4 lead to 6-8 and it’s at that point we have no chance to win . Last night Case in point . We almost blew a game we had wrapped up earlier in OT .
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=322692][quote="Paul Massell" post=322687]Lavin actually said that rebounding was over emphasized when he was coach. This is actually a pervasive strategy now in the NBA now that goes along with the "small ball" mentality and a lot of NBA teams don't play their bigs regularly or have smaller guys like Draymond Green doing the traditional work that was the two roles of the 4 and 5/ center and power forward and guys who are 5's are now three point shooters. This is not about Mullin being clueless or stubborn. He is following a strategy that the top franchises, coaches in the NBA and increasingly coaches in the NCAA are following. Like it or not, he is ahead of the curve on this.[/quote]. agree PM but, most of our BE opponents seem to feel differently and do convert quite a few more Offrnsive Rebounds into baskets than we do .. And , since most of our Games are Razor close , not picking up 4-6 points here and there can be the difference in winning and losing . Also too, in those close games , we tend to bomb away from 3 point range , miss and not even try to get a put back . It gives opponents to go from a 2-4 lead to 6-8 and it’s at that point we have no chance to win . Last night Case in point . We almost blew a game we had wrapped up earlier in OT .[/quote]

I'd like to see some happy medium and perhaps that is why we see Fig and Heron following their shot some where other players don't or perhaps they are doing that against the overall strategy. I don't know but I don't love it either. I'm just saying that there is a strategy here and it is not because Mullin is clueless as some try to make him out. He is ahead of the curve in college basketball and if the NCAA is going to follow the NBA this is the future.
 
So what is the called? Shoot and retreat or Chuck and run.
 
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