Observations re lack of depth/fatigue

[SJU14]

They also use a lot of energy in their zone running out to open shooters. Who usually hit the shot anyway.

Lavin's zone is soft and has been from day 1. Steve doesn't recognize the 3 pt shot yet, which is why he's never landed a drop dead shooter, which nearly every team has today. Except us!

Please don't mention, HOOPER, MARCO, ETC.. They weren't BE CALIBER PLAYERS.

Um. We played incredible defense yesterday. Incredible. If we kept scoring in the final minutes we would've closed it out.

UM, if our dfense was so incredible, why didn't we stop their late stampede? DOOKIES guards were beating all of our guys off the dribble all day. And, how many times we did not contest their 3 pt open looks?

I applaud our effort from a undermanned team but, playing hard is expected for 40 minutes.. The game was decided when Coack K GOT THE VOICE MESSAGE FROM jAY wRIGHT to put in Plumlee and bang the stuffing out of CO.. We had no answer for that.

Plumlee was not guarded by, nor did he guard CO

While Plumlee was in the game Duke played a lot of zone and Marshall was part of the back line of their modest 2-3 zone. You don't guard anyone in particular in that zone.
On offense you are wrong Beast as Obekpa spent much of his defensive effort trying to keep up with the quicker Plumlee while at times switching off with Pointer to guard Okafor. Either way it created a mismatch that gave Duke a rebounding/positioning advantage. At one point the miscommunication by St. John's had Harrison guarding Plumlee with a distinct 9 inch disadvantage. That said, in the end in came down to mistakes by Harrison and Jordan in the closing minutes with turnovers by both and being beaten by Tyus Jones for corner shots that translated to 6 points with under 3 minutes to play.

I also thought a critical play was when Okafor had a 1 on 1 and missed the front end, yet Duke ended up getting the offensive rebound and it turned into a 3 point play. Just horrible.

In fact, I feel like we give up so many offensive boards on free throws.

There's actually times where I want the other team to hit a free throw, because I feel like we will give up the offensive board and allow a basket.

 

[OLV72]

There have certainly been no shortage of valid critiques about the team's lack of depth and second half fades. One counterpoint is the fact that there are relentless timeouts/play stoppages on televised games (which is pretty much every game). Much more evident when you watch game in person. Yesterday, there were 60-90 second timeouts literally every 2:30-3:00 in clock time. Obviously, Lavin is not comfortable with his bench playing any kind of extended minutes.

I applaud the team for playing their hearts out yesterday, but a senor-laden team should be able to close a game like that out, regardless of the quality of the opponent. In my opinion they were one stop/one 3/good possession from stopping that onslaught.

My sons and i enjoyed the game, but you walked away with a sense of a lost opportunity.

The TV time outs are so long that coaches should make their players do warm-ups.

 

[Ottrando23]

Yea, it's true that Boeheim has been successful with short rotations in his career, however their is a major difference at Cuse that makes it not a problem to have a short rotation like that. They have 2 legit big men in their rotation. I am almost positive Boeheim has never had a rotation with only 1 PF/C. And they have another in Gabinije who is taller than Pointer in this rotation. St. John's total depth is not a main problem. St. John's front court depth is the major problem. You Could have 6 guys in a rotation but at least 2 of them have to be big men. These guys are getting tired because we have guards bumpin bodys with the big guys down low.

 

[Ray Morgan]

So our lack of depth is the excuse of the day, week and season. Some people think that is why we got blown out the last 5 minutes by 2 top 10 teams and have an awful second half record overall of late. There could be another more logical reason. Perhaps the good teams just play better than we do in the end game. There's a reason Duke and Villanova are in the top 10, and it's not just having more depth than us. It's not like we have a 40 year old team. We have excellent athletes who are seasoned and well conditioned.

We do seem to revert to bad habits late in the game. Ball movement stops, and we rely on 1 on 1 play and too much dribbling. We have been fortunate that almost everyone clunks free throws against us. The good teams seem to get an awful lot of offensive rebounds off their missed foul shots, especially in crunch time. We shot great last night, until the %s caught up with us. We ended up where we usually do. We are not losing because JDR or Amar didn't get enough burn in the first half. We lose in the end because we rebound the ball poorly and have limited options on offense due to having no real 3 point threats and no inside game.It seems pretty amazing we have done this well. I think many teams are taken by surprise at our athleticism. Then they make adjustments, bear down, hit a few late 3's , and watch us fail to execute.

 

[beast of the east]

There have certainly been no shortage of valid critiques about the team's lack of depth and second half fades. One counterpoint is the fact that there are relentless timeouts/play stoppages on televised games (which is pretty much every game). Much more evident when you watch game in person. Yesterday, there were 60-90 second timeouts literally every 2:30-3:00 in clock time. Obviously, Lavin is not comfortable with his bench playing any kind of extended minutes.

I applaud the team for playing their hearts out yesterday, but a senor-laden team should be able to close a game like that out, regardless of the quality of the opponent. In my opinion they were one stop/one 3/good possession from stopping that onslaught.

My sons and i enjoyed the game, but you walked away with a sense of a lost opportunity.

The TV time outs are so long that coaches should make their players do warm-ups.

I've said this over and over. With TV timeouts, a 40 minute game takes about 2hrs, 15 minutes to complete. I think Lavin is settling on a 7th man, Amar, but depth is relative to your competition. If we were playing a mid-major schedule, we could have a ten man rotation. Against Duke, Lavin felt only 6 guys could compete. He was probably right.

 

[ras]

There have certainly been no shortage of valid critiques about the team's lack of depth and second half fades. One counterpoint is the fact that there are relentless timeouts/play stoppages on televised games (which is pretty much every game). Much more evident when you watch game in person. Yesterday, there were 60-90 second timeouts literally every 2:30-3:00 in clock time. Obviously, Lavin is not comfortable with his bench playing any kind of extended minutes.

I applaud the team for playing their hearts out yesterday, but a senor-laden team should be able to close a game like that out, regardless of the quality of the opponent. In my opinion they were one stop/one 3/good possession from stopping that onslaught.

My sons and i enjoyed the game, but you walked away with a sense of a lost opportunity.

The TV time outs are so long that coaches should make their players do warm-ups.

I've said this over and over. With TV timeouts, a 40 minute game takes about 2hrs, 15 minutes to complete. I think Lavin is settling on a 7th man, Amar, but depth is relative to your competition. If we were playing a mid-major schedule, we could have a ten man rotation. Against Duke, Lavin felt only 6 guys could compete. He was probably right.

Even if you want to argue 6 players. Lavin hardly used Branch . He should have used him more to spell all our guards,especially,DLO.

 

[logen]

They also use a lot of energy in their zone running out to open shooters. Who usually hit the shot anyway.

Lavin's zone is soft and has been from day 1. Steve doesn't recognize the 3 pt shot yet, which is why he's never landed a drop dead shooter, which nearly every team has today. Except us!

Please don't mention, HOOPER, MARCO, ETC.. They weren't BE CALIBER PLAYERS.

Um. We played incredible defense yesterday. Incredible. If we kept scoring in the final minutes we would've closed it out.

UM, if our dfense was so incredible, why didn't we stop their late stampede? DOOKIES guards were beating all of our guys off the dribble all day. And, how many times we did not contest their 3 pt open looks?

I applaud our effort from a undermanned team but, playing hard is expected for 40 minutes.. The game was decided when Coack K GOT THE VOICE MESSAGE FROM jAY wRIGHT to put in Plumlee and bang the stuffing out of CO.. We had no answer for that.

Ok. I'll be off this board until the Creighton game.

Duke was gonna make their run no matter how good defense we played, the way you complete upsets is hitting enough shots on other end despite the run, and winning the game. I understand why MJDinkins always fought with you now. Good bye.

FWIW, I believe you are a youngster and from a cantankerous old coot; don't let anyone run you off the board. You have good opinions, a positive viewpoint many of us lifers don't, and you are as entitled to your opinions as are those that disagree with you. Keep posting...............

 

[OLV72]

There have certainly been no shortage of valid critiques about the team's lack of depth and second half fades. One counterpoint is the fact that there are relentless timeouts/play stoppages on televised games (which is pretty much every game). Much more evident when you watch game in person. Yesterday, there were 60-90 second timeouts literally every 2:30-3:00 in clock time. Obviously, Lavin is not comfortable with his bench playing any kind of extended minutes.

I applaud the team for playing their hearts out yesterday, but a senor-laden team should be able to close a game like that out, regardless of the quality of the opponent. In my opinion they were one stop/one 3/good possession from stopping that onslaught.

My sons and i enjoyed the game, but you walked away with a sense of a lost opportunity.

The TV time outs are so long that coaches should make their players do warm-ups.

I've said this over and over. With TV timeouts, a 40 minute game takes about 2hrs, 15 minutes to complete. I think Lavin is settling on a 7th man, Amar, but depth is relative to your competition. If we were playing a mid-major schedule, we could have a ten man rotation. Against Duke, Lavin felt only 6 guys could compete. He was probably right.

Beast, the cash grab has turned college football games into 4 hour shows. College hoops is getting closer to 2 and half hours when two years ago it was a nice two hour game. MLB is trying to shorten games - the NHL too. The leagues that pay their players realize that TV executives can screw up their games.

 

[beast of the east]

There have certainly been no shortage of valid critiques about the team's lack of depth and second half fades. One counterpoint is the fact that there are relentless timeouts/play stoppages on televised games (which is pretty much every game). Much more evident when you watch game in person. Yesterday, there were 60-90 second timeouts literally every 2:30-3:00 in clock time. Obviously, Lavin is not comfortable with his bench playing any kind of extended minutes.

I applaud the team for playing their hearts out yesterday, but a senor-laden team should be able to close a game like that out, regardless of the quality of the opponent. In my opinion they were one stop/one 3/good possession from stopping that onslaught.

My sons and i enjoyed the game, but you walked away with a sense of a lost opportunity.

The TV time outs are so long that coaches should make their players do warm-ups.

I've said this over and over. With TV timeouts, a 40 minute game takes about 2hrs, 15 minutes to complete. I think Lavin is settling on a 7th man, Amar, but depth is relative to your competition. If we were playing a mid-major schedule, we could have a ten man rotation. Against Duke, Lavin felt only 6 guys could compete. He was probably right.

Beast, the cash grab has turned college football games into 4 hour shows. College hoops is getting closer to 2 and half hours when two years ago it was a nice two hour game. MLB is trying to shorten games - the NHL too. The leagues that pay their players realize that TV executives can screw up their games.

100% correct. I DVR all SJU games and have to add 1/2 hour from the standard 2 hr schedule. Before I did that it would cut off crunch time.

 

[jr49]

There have certainly been no shortage of valid critiques about the team's lack of depth and second half fades. One counterpoint is the fact that there are relentless timeouts/play stoppages on televised games (which is pretty much every game). Much more evident when you watch game in person. Yesterday, there were 60-90 second timeouts literally every 2:30-3:00 in clock time. Obviously, Lavin is not comfortable with his bench playing any kind of extended minutes.

I applaud the team for playing their hearts out yesterday, but a senor-laden team should be able to close a game like that out, regardless of the quality of the opponent. In my opinion they were one stop/one 3/good possession from stopping that onslaught.

My sons and i enjoyed the game, but you walked away with a sense of a lost opportunity.

The TV time outs are so long that coaches should make their players do warm-ups.

I've said this over and over. With TV timeouts, a 40 minute game takes about 2hrs, 15 minutes to complete. I think Lavin is settling on a 7th man, Amar, but depth is relative to your competition. If we were playing a mid-major schedule, we could have a ten man rotation. Against Duke, Lavin felt only 6 guys could compete. He was probably right.

Even if you want to argue 6 players. Lavin hardly used Branch . He should have used him more to spell all our guards,especially,DLO.

Agree. DH hurting and could not elevate at all. Jordan lacks the skills of either guard position. He holds the ball, dribbles into trouble, and does nothing but stand around when the ball not in his hands. That was a game Branch shoulda gotten 20 minutes, and probably the last 8 when a player with point guard skills is needed. Maybe the kids hands are still cut up. Jordan has no guard skills. Maybe he can play closer to the basket running the baseline. For sure Branch finds the shooter faster then Jordan, who looks like he's throwing his hands up and going through the motions when it's to late.

 

[Jack Williams]

There have certainly been no shortage of valid critiques about the team's lack of depth and second half fades. One counterpoint is the fact that there are relentless timeouts/play stoppages on televised games (which is pretty much every game). Much more evident when you watch game in person. Yesterday, there were 60-90 second timeouts literally every 2:30-3:00 in clock time. Obviously, Lavin is not comfortable with his bench playing any kind of extended minutes.

I applaud the team for playing their hearts out yesterday, but a senor-laden team should be able to close a game like that out, regardless of the quality of the opponent. In my opinion they were one stop/one 3/good possession from stopping that onslaught.

My sons and i enjoyed the game, but you walked away with a sense of a lost opportunity.

The TV time outs are so long that coaches should make their players do warm-ups.

I've said this over and over. With TV timeouts, a 40 minute game takes about 2hrs, 15 minutes to complete. I think Lavin is settling on a 7th man, Amar, but depth is relative to your competition. If we were playing a mid-major schedule, we could have a ten man rotation. Against Duke, Lavin felt only 6 guys could compete. He was probably right.

Even if you want to argue 6 players. Lavin hardly used Branch . He should have used him more to spell all our guards,especially,DLO.

Agree. DH hurting and could not elevate at all. Jordan lacks the skills of either guard position. He holds the ball, dribbles into trouble, and does nothing but stand around when the ball not in his hands. That was a game Branch shoulda gotten 20 minutes, and probably the last 8 when a player with point guard skills is needed. Maybe the kids hands are still cut up. Jordan has no guard skills. Maybe he can play closer to the basket running the baseline. For sure Branch finds the shooter faster then Jordan, who looks like he's throwing his hands up and going through the motions when it's to late.

Kinda pointless to bash Jordan like that. He played a great game. Only criticism many had of him was he disappeared in the 2nd half but I think a lot of that has to do with duke upping their pressure on him cause he torched them in the first half. There have been ample opportunities to bash Jordan with him having numerous terrible games this season, but days after the duke game isn't a great time, he's had 4 good games in a row now.

 

[jr49]

OK with me if you think my post is pointless. It's about a player moving when he gives the ball up rather then just waiting to get it back. When in a zone u don't break to cover after the shooter has it in his hands. Post is about a fine athlete marketing himself a fine basketball player.