Watching the Florida/Marquette game last night and seeing NR on the bench taking stats, made me feel that that is precisely what he is good for and nothing else. That horrible experiment of hiring him as our head coach put our program back a decade in so many respects. So glad we got Lavin!!
Norm Roberts
- Thread starter rcatalano
- Start date
I don't think he put this program back a decade at all. St. John's took a chance on an assistant coach who at the time was considered among the best in the game (along with Frank Haith). Unfortunately, he just didn't have the skills to be a head coach at that level. It happens.
I'm not defending Norm at all because everybody is well aware of how mediocre he was at STJ. But the one thing that does annoy me about that whole situation is how the administration basically gave him a fraction of the financial support that Lavin was given. What if, say, Norm was given the opportunity to hire big time assistants like Dunlap, Hines, Chiles, etc.? Would the story have played out differently? I'm not arguing for him, but in some ways it's kind of sad that he wasn't given the same tools that Lavin has been given. With all that being said, I'm happy with who our coach is now.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
Norm was a stopgap measure brought here to restore integrity to the program. He had good relations with the media, and recruited a lot of good kids. He did what he was brought here to do by a shellshocked administration. he left the program in better shape than he found it, and was gracefully shown the door when order was restored. He is back where he belongs, as an assistant. Good luck to him.
Ray hit the nail on the head. Norm did not bring the program backward, Jarvis did that (and you could argue everyone before him but after Louis). Norm (and maybe Fran, if you forget about image including the one of him showcasing his scrotum) is the only coach since Lapchick to leave the program in better shape than when he got it. However it was only in marginally better shape and nowhere near the progress that a big time program should expect from their coach. Truth is until hiring Lavin St Johns wasn't a big time program. Now they look like they are and hopefully that will continue throughout Lavin's tenure as coach and after he is gone, which I hope is a long time from now.
i don't know how anyone can say leaving the program needing nine scholarship players at once is better than what it was by any standard.
that being said, norm has had a great run in his chosen career. he's a guy who went to queens college and became a millionaire who's assisting at yet another powerhouse school.
would any of you like to change places?
that being said, norm has had a great run in his chosen career. he's a guy who went to queens college and became a millionaire who's assisting at yet another powerhouse school.
would any of you like to change places?
gonzalo
Well-known member
I think that you (and Jarvis) are the only guys who think that Roberts left the program in worse situation than Jarvis.
Don´t you remember the sanctions or less scholarships?
For a recruiter like Lavin to have 9 scholarships in the same year is not a problem, it´s a present.
I still remember when Jarvis said that he left the team in a better situation than when he arrived (Fraschilla firing)
I remember Jarvis saying that too.l I threw up almost immediately.
And newsie, what kind of roster did Jarvis leave in his wake for Norm? Exactly four guys who came to STJ on scholly as follows: the shell of Daryl Hill, Lamont, a broken Diakite and Tyler Jones. Oh and maybe Special FX, I think he committed to Jarvis. So Norm was pretty much faced with the same challenge coming in as he left Lavin going out. At least Norm left Lavin a year's worth of a full roster to work with. Inheriting a pile of shite and leaving behind manure is better than nothing.
(and yes I blame him most of all for Pittsburgh because if he hadn't been on work stoppage for two years before he was dumped he wouldn't have been fired in December and Pittsburgh probably wouldn't have happened so his wake washed away Grady, Ingram and Keita, leaving only the aforementioned players,a shattered image and NCAA violations).
we are sju
Active member
The best thing that ever happened to Norm was Jarvis! The least succesful coach in the history of the program is still being given a mulligan by people by simply bringing up Jarvis. Norm was not lazy or crooked. That is the only positive thing you can say for him. While i think it is silly that people still bring up Norm and Jarvis at all, it is even more silly to keep defending Norm. Jarvis nearly killed the program. Norm kept the program clean but did almost make it irrelevant.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
Nobody is giving Norm a mulligan. When he was hired the program was radioactive. Nobody wanted to touch it, with the school one more impropriety away from being turned into 40 years of wasteland. Norm was brought here because he would do as told, avoid controversy, and play it clean. Plus, the admin knew he wouldn;t abandon the program even if, by chance, he became a hot ticket and desired elsewhere. He worked hard, and did everything that was, or should have realistically been expected of him. Especially since, at that time, an honest program, and not the top twenty, was the real priority. Maybe his time here was too long, but Lavin's instant recruiting success tells you Norm took the radioactivity away.
JackofVirginia
Active member
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I don't think he put this program back a decade at all. St. John's took a chance on an assistant coach who at the time was considered among the best in the game (along with Frank Haith). Unfortunately, he just didn't have the skills to be a head coach at that level. It happens.
I'm not defending Norm at all because everybody is well aware of how mediocre he was at STJ. But the one thing that does annoy me about that whole situation is how the administration basically gave him a fraction of the financial support that Lavin was given. What if, say, Norm was given the opportunity to hire big time assistants like Dunlap, Hines, Chiles, etc.? Would the story have played out differently? I'm not arguing for him, but in some ways it's kind of sad that he wasn't given the same tools that Lavin has been given. With all that being said, I'm happy with who our coach is now.
Administrationgiving financial support? How about the fact Repole wasn't involved when Roberts was hired.
we are sju
Active member
My only issue with this is that if you brought in a Lavin type after year 3 or no later than after year 4 the program would be further along and we would not have had to sit through such ugly basketball. Or even if you had brought in a clean coach with any coaching or recruiting skill things would have been easier on the fans. Whatever, what is done is done.