None of us are happy but ...........

[quote="Beast of the East" post=329042]There is stuff that has been going on this season that will become news all too soon. I wish we could all control our emotions better and not make a disappointing season a reason to attack some really good kids and men who coach them. When the news comes out some of you will regret the nasty stuff you've been saying. At least those of you with brains.

In the end, our roster is just too thin and too short. In game strategy can only do so much when you basically have 2 small forwards as your big men, and three guards comprising your rotation. Basketball is unforgiving when it comes to height, and in the absence of height, the lack of depth has been a crusher for us.

When you have to double down, teams with skilled big men will kick it to open perimeter players. One on one, we got crushed by big men who seemed to score at will. In our losses, teams made their open looks when we doubled down. Hard to come up with a strategy to beat that.

There's really only one strategy that could have helped this team win over the past three and that is make your outside shots and make sure you get good looks. They failed in the former, and did okay in the latter. If this team doesn't make shots, they don't win. period.

In terms of roster, I'd take each of our starting 5 in a heartbeat. After that the falloff was radical. There wasn't a single game where our bigs, Keita and Roberts outplayed the opposition, and nearly all the time they were tremendously overmatched either by skilled Euro plodders, athletic and talented bigs, really anyone 6'8 or better. The height differential was too much for our top 5 to make up for considering the lack of depth. In college 2 fouls in the 1st half puts you on the bench, 3 in early 2nd half bendches you again, and 4 anytime above 7 minutes benches you. With just 5 capable players, it was too much to ask our smaller guys to play physical against larger opponents.

The staff greatly overrated what Keita would bring. The knee injury hurt for sure, but he hasn't shown much. Roberts get puched around too easily.

Heron and Ponds injuries hurt a ton.

I didn't go over the top after big wins, and i didn't lose it after we lost winnable games.


Still and all, 10 wins were attainable, and 9 looks like would have locked up a bid - certainly 10 would. Big disappointment, but I'd also remind you guys that just 3 weeks ago, the biggest and nastiest critics right now were singng that they loved this team and it was among their favorite. You can't have it both ways after a 3 game collapse.


Think of our collective mindset. We would have collecitvely been calling for Xavier's coach to be fired after their miserable start. We'd be moaning over Nova and MArquette's late season swoon, and if we were Providence fans, moaning how Cooley can't coach and the team sucks. Forget about being a DePaul fan, who makes our program seem like Duke.

Facts are facts though. We lost 2 to Providence, Xavier, and DePaul, and without inspection makes for an unsuccessful campaign. It's disappointing, and depressing.

I had said a few weeks ago that 9-9 in conference without a bid would make this season a disappointment. 8-10 certainly is a failed season. I'd like for us to have been healthy and see how it went, but injuries are part of the game.[/quote] Excellent, honest post. I hope this future news isnt too bad. Like you said we have a nice starting 5 . But there have been injuries and the lack of a true big, coupled w no real depth came to a head at the end of the season. I would say most of the board is happy w the character of our players.
 
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[quote="gman" post=329011][quote="mjmaherjr" post=328925]Overall the kids we have are good kids. They make mistakes on the court like other kids maybe some more and maybe some the same mistakes but the kids are good kids. We can be unhappy with where we are as a team conference record wise but the kids dont deserve thread titles with their names on them knocking them.

And no-one including staff deserves personal shots. We are all adults if we cant set an example and treat people the way we'd want to be treated then it says more about us than the kids[/quote]

I disagree on the last point. The coaches get paid plenty to take shots against them. This all falls on them. They recruited this team. They "coached" this team. The blame of sucking the last month falls on them. If they don't make the tournament these kids will be looking back on this season their whole lives.[/quote] The key for me in what Maher said above was 'personal shots'. I agree this coaching staff does get paid plenty and deserves much of the fault for what I just witnessed last night. Just keep it to the X and Os or roster/staff management. No need to bring up something like Coach's complexion. That to me is just childish and stupid.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=329042]There is stuff that has been going on this season that will become news all too soon. I wish we could all control our emotions better and not make a disappointing season a reason to attack some really good kids and men who coach them. When the news comes out some of you will regret the nasty stuff you've been saying. At least those of you with brains.

In the end, our roster is just too thin and too short. In game strategy can only do so much when you basically have 2 small forwards as your big men, and three guards comprising your rotation. Basketball is unforgiving when it comes to height, and in the absence of height, the lack of depth has been a crusher for us.

When you have to double down, teams with skilled big men will kick it to open perimeter players. One on one, we got crushed by big men who seemed to score at will. In our losses, teams made their open looks when we doubled down. Hard to come up with a strategy to beat that.

There's really only one strategy that could have helped this team win over the past three and that is make your outside shots and make sure you get good looks. They failed in the former, and did okay in the latter. If this team doesn't make shots, they don't win. period.

In terms of roster, I'd take each of our starting 5 in a heartbeat. After that the falloff was radical. There wasn't a single game where our bigs, Keita and Roberts outplayed the opposition, and nearly all the time they were tremendously overmatched either by skilled Euro plodders, athletic and talented bigs, really anyone 6'8 or better. The height differential was too much for our top 5 to make up for considering the lack of depth. In college 2 fouls in the 1st half puts you on the bench, 3 in early 2nd half bendches you again, and 4 anytime above 7 minutes benches you. With just 5 capable players, it was too much to ask our smaller guys to play physical against larger opponents.

The staff greatly overrated what Keita would bring. The knee injury hurt for sure, but he hasn't shown much. Roberts get puched around too easily.

Heron and Ponds injuries hurt a ton.

I didn't go over the top after big wins, and i didn't lose it after we lost winnable games.


Still and all, 10 wins were attainable, and 9 looks like would have locked up a bid - certainly 10 would. Big disappointment, but I'd also remind you guys that just 3 weeks ago, the biggest and nastiest critics right now were singng that they loved this team and it was among their favorite. You can't have it both ways after a 3 game collapse.


Think of our collective mindset. We would have collecitvely been calling for Xavier's coach to be fired after their miserable start. We'd be moaning over Nova and MArquette's late season swoon, and if we were Providence fans, moaning how Cooley can't coach and the team sucks. Forget about being a DePaul fan, who makes our program seem like Duke.

Facts are facts though. We lost 2 to Providence, Xavier, and DePaul, and without inspection makes for an unsuccessful campaign. It's disappointing, and depressing.

I had said a few weeks ago that 9-9 in conference without a bid would make this season a disappointment. 8-10 certainly is a failed season. I'd like for us to have been healthy and see how it went, but injuries are part of the game.[/quote]

Beast, great post as usual and I hope you know how much I and many other posters appreciate your insight. Even if they were to win their first 2 games in the BET (unlikely), I would still deem this a failed season. In 4 years, the recruiting is still bad and they just play an awful to watch style of basketball. I really would love to watch one of their practices because they really do nothing all that well. There is no offensive flow, they can't rebound, they can't defend. I mean, basic basketball fundamentals such as boxing out are missing from all their games. Yes, they are undersized and yes, more times than not they are going to beaten on the boards. But God almighty, sometimes it's like watching elementary school players out there with how many times they are out of position and not doing the little things.

It's funny, if there is one thing that encapsulates this season for me, it's Femi Olujobi. Regardless of how they felt about Sedee Keita, Mullin and the staff had to know they were shorthanded up front. When really your 2nd big man is Josh Roberts, there's a problem. Yet, Mullin couldn't even make the time to be on campus and meet with him. I mean, this is a grad transfer originally from Long Island who was averaging 16 and 7 at NCAT. Why would you completely mail that in? For me, it was just evidence of the fact that Mullin isn't going to go above and beyond for this job.
 
I wish nothing bad on anyone, and can't comment any more on what I do not know.

What makes the current on court situation depressing to me is not that the season is imploding. Circumstances happen, seasons can go south. What is depressing to me is how does it improve? It sure seems to me that the current staff is convinced playing small is not an issue. It has been going on for years. I have post after post I wrote a few years back about Yakwe playing out of position at the five. Going into this year I accepted this experiment as something that I needed to adapt to and that with increased talent maybe it could work.

But now, after watching teams that just aren't very good bludgeon us the same way over and over again I find it very difficult to believe that the system in place can work. And I also see no indication that Mullin is willing to try a more conventional approach. If you watch an NBA game you will see a lot of the same stuff you see from SJU. So it's fashionable to say the team has no system and isn't coached but I disagree, but also believe the truth might be worse. That there is a system, that it comes from a bunch of NBA guys that figured they would be innovators in college but instead the system can't work in college ball. Because it is based on a higher level of talent than any college team can collect.

So where does that leave things? I can't imagine that the administration is going to make a change after this year. I can't imagine that Mullin is all of a sudden going to wake up and decide that he wants to implement a new system. That's another bad year. Then what? Either rinse and repeat over and over or another coaching change? Which means another reboot and more losing. Turnarounds take time, go look up UConn and Pitts records this year with Hurley and Capel.

This is why I was invested in this working. It was never about Mullin for me. It was about the fact that he is the current coach and if he fails the team is bad in the present and almost assuredly for years afterward.

So yes, I am not happy. I can only imagine how the staff and players feel.
 
Being there for Femi visit is not going above and beyond, it is minimal. If there was a valid reason he could not be there they should have just postponed the visit. What good is having 2 HOFers on staff if just one assistant is present for an official visit?
 
[quote="IDRAFT" post=329058]I wish nothing bad on anyone, and can't comment any more on what I do not know.

What makes the current on court situation depressing to me is not that the season is imploding. Circumstances happen, seasons can go south. What is depressing to me is how does it improve? It sure seems to me that the current staff is convinced playing small is not an issue. It has been going on for years. I have post after post I wrote a few years back about Yakwe playing out of position at the five. Going into this year I accepted this experiment as something that I needed to adapt to and that with increased talent maybe it could work.

But now, after watching teams that just aren't very good bludgeon us the same way over and over again I find it very difficult to believe that the system in place can work. And I also see no indication that Mullin is willing to try a more conventional approach. If you watch an NBA game you will see a lot of the same stuff you see from SJU. So it's fashionable to say the team has no system and isn't coached but I disagree, but also believe the truth might be worse. That there is a system, that it comes from a bunch of NBA guys that figured they would be innovators in college but instead the system can't work in college ball. Because it is based on a higher level of talent than any college team can collect.

So where does that leave things? I can't imagine that the administration is going to make a change after this year. I can't imagine that Mullin is all of a sudden going to wake up and decide that he wants to implement a new system. That's another bad year. Then what? Either rinse and repeat over and over or another coaching change? Which means another reboot and more losing. Turnarounds take time, go look up UConn and Pitts records this year with Hurley and Capel.

This is why I was invested in this working. It was never about Mullin for me. It was about the fact that he is the current coach and if he fails the team is bad in the present and almost assuredly for years afterward.

So yes, I am not happy. I can only imagine how the staff and players feel.[/quote]

He's 20-52 in 4 years. If the current system isn't working, then another coaching change doesn't really scare me. Especially when we'll hopefully get a qualified coach this time.
 
[quote="Ray Morgan" post=328954]If the season ending, and tournament ending slump is eating at us fans, imagine what it's doing to the players and staff.[/quote]

Nice insight Ray
As WFAN’s Joe Boningo oft remarks
“ Ohh the pain”
We - coaches players fans - are all suffering
Why
It’s a time (season) that trying our souls

So can we keep on with a
little calm, respect and dignity and stick with the program and players?

It’s easy to critique and bale out, ‘ jump ship ‘

That’s not what most of us are
made of.
Losing stinks. Disappointment stinks. Ohh the pain...
But
Let’s go Storm - maybe there’s a W or two remaining before we out the balls away.

Hope so
Blessings to all.
 
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As Beast has so said so well, many comments here , despite our collective disappointment , are below the Belt .. Apparently there are issues involved that aren’t well known at this time ..Basketball issues are one thing , personal sniping is low Class and Mullin and Staff deserve better from a fan base than they are getting on here . Some of you might want to drift over to the Marquette site and see how well that’s going for a top 25 team or ,Nova who backed into the 1 seed . In this League , even the mighty can lose 4 straight or 2 of 3 or 3 of 4 . Seemingly too, all the Critics don’t give much credence to the harsh reality of getting a bad destiny in the first game vs Seton Hall. While the official record book will show a 8-10 season , a correct or reversed call would have us 9-9 and a 3 seed as well . Mullin has been brutalized over the Femi recruiting and no one has even offered a plausible reason . He may very well have one and just because the unknowing aren’t plugged in yet , it’s unfair to contnually berate him for it . And, who knows for sure , if that is why he went to DePaul anyway ? Mullin might have been occupied with more important things that day .,It’s possibleFemi might have gotten a explanation. or maybe not . Who’s to say for sure ? No one . Anyway , there have been some really disgraceful comments passed here , that don’t track with the Vincentian Mission or, the loyalty one would expect from a Alum or , even just a fan . While Basketball and it’s heritage are a key element in the University’s Identity , it does pale in comparison to other things in life that are more important .. Those who have chosen the harshest of comments here may want to think about that in the days and weeks ahead .
 
[quote="Sherman, Sheridan & Grant" post=329071][quote="Ray Morgan" post=328954]If the season ending, and tournament ending slump is eating at us fans, imagine what it's doing to the players and staff.[/quote]

Nice insight Ray
As WFAN’s Joe Boningo oft remarks
“ Ohh the pain”
We - coaches players fans - are all suffering
Why
It’s a time (season) that trying our souls

So can we keep on with a
little calm, respect and dignity and stick with the program and players?

It’s easy to critique and bale out, ‘ jump ship ‘

That’s not what most of us are
made of.
Losing stinks. Disappointment stinks. Ohh the pain...
But
Let’s go Storm - maybe there’s a W or two remaining before we out the balls away.

Hope so
Blessings to all.[/quote]. Very Classy , SSG. And , a timely comment for sure . Thank you .
 
DoodyNY33 wrote: "He's 20-52 in 4 years. If the current system isn't working, then another coaching change doesn't really scare me. Especially when we'll hopefully get a qualified coach this time."

I get that it sure seems needed. I'm not arguing that, but it does mean it is going to be years before this program is any good again. That's what is so bad about the situation. There are no good options, only less bad options.

I respect anyone who looks forward to another four year process that maybe works out. If I was in charge I would go that way myself because it's better than a guarantee of being bad for five, six, or seven years. But I don't look forward to more bad years, even though they seem guaranteed no matter what the school does right now.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=329015][quote="SJU11phd" post=328982][quote="mjmaherjr" post=328925]Overall the kids we have are good kids. They make mistakes on the court like other kids maybe some more and maybe some the same mistakes but the kids are good kids. We can be unhappy with where we are as a team conference record wise but the kids dont deserve thread titles with their names on them knocking them.

And no-one including staff deserves personal shots. We are all adults if we cant set an example and treat people the way we'd want to be treated then it says more about us than the kids[/quote]

Yeah these kids are great kids...... they averaged like 2 technical fouls a game. True role models. I had to explain to my son every game I brought him to not to act like these clowns. Although I can’t really blame them because their coach is the epitome of low class and clueless on top of that. Mr Cragg please bail us out of this nightmare.[/quote]

I can't help but be disappointed by your post. Just what has anyone on this staff done to be worthy of the term "low class"? Grow up in flatbush maybe? Father a customs agent? Aunts who are nuns? No PhD?

I've had season tickets since I was a student. My adult children have been to games with me since they were 5 or 6. Not once have I had to condemn a players on court actions by explaining it to them. At last count I had 13 techs on the team, which is less than 0.5 per game - way more than last season but you exaggerated. All player techs were two categories - double techs for 2 players shoving, and mouthing too much at a ref in frustration. Personally I'd be much more concerned with how a parent unduly describes the class and character of students and coaches based on wins or losses than how our guys actually conducted themselves[/quote]

Lol you're ok with averaging a technical foul every other game? That is absolutely ridiculous even if I did exaggerate. That's basically all on the coaching staff. 18-21 year old kids will be kids, but it's up to the adults on the coaching staff to control their players. Mullin was a failure in that aspect along with most other aspects of coaching. So yes I did have to tell my son it is not acceptable to act like that on the court, and to show the refs respect even if you don't agree with their calls.

I mostly just feel bad for the players like Shamorie who thought he was going to be a first round pick this year, and probably is going to end up overseas now after a disappointing season caused mostly by the lack of a competent coaching staff.
 
[quote="IDRAFT" post=329076]DoodyNY33 wrote: "He's 20-52 in 4 years. If the current system isn't working, then another coaching change doesn't really scare me. Especially when we'll hopefully get a qualified coach this time."

I get that it sure seems needed. I'm not arguing that, but it does mean it is going to be years before this program is any good again. That's what is so bad about the situation. There are no good options, only less bad options.

I respect anyone who looks forward to another four year process that maybe works out. If I was in charge I would go that way myself because it's better than a guarantee of being bad for five, six, or seven years. But I don't look forward to more bad years, even though they seem guaranteed no matter what the school does right now.[/quote]

Trust me, I'm not at all happy about it. Even though I wasn't a fan of the Mullin hire, I've been rooting for him from day one and was hopeful when he hired both Slice and Matt A. But as time as gone one, he's given me no reason to be optimistic. He replaced Slice with Mitch, another guy with zero coaching experience. He has continued to employ Mitch, even though he brings virtually nothing to the program. He's completely relied on Matt A to recruit, never really doing it himself. They have virtually no success with HS recruits, instead relying on transfers. Most importantly, the team has continued to look disorganized and unprepared for games and that is the most alarming thing of all. So yes, if you replace him with a new coach, St. John's is going to struggle in the short term. But if you hire the best candidate this time, that might lead to long term success.

Let's just be objective about this for a minute. They are losing Ponds and Clark next season. There's a real possibility they will lose Heron and Simon too. Does anybody really actually believe that the group of Caraher, Wright, Mack, Steere, & Manuel are going to fix this program? Probably not, which means it'll be another losing season in the Big East for the 5th straight year. So it will just be perpetuating an already crap situation. Bottom line, move on from him and try to find a candidate who actually knows how to do this job.
 
[quote="DoodyNY33" post=329053][quote="Beast of the East" post=329042]There is stuff that has been going on this season that will become news all too soon. I wish we could all control our emotions better and not make a disappointing season a reason to attack some really good kids and men who coach them. When the news comes out some of you will regret the nasty stuff you've been saying. At least those of you with brains.

In the end, our roster is just too thin and too short. In game strategy can only do so much when you basically have 2 small forwards as your big men, and three guards comprising your rotation. Basketball is unforgiving when it comes to height, and in the absence of height, the lack of depth has been a crusher for us.

When you have to double down, teams with skilled big men will kick it to open perimeter players. One on one, we got crushed by big men who seemed to score at will. In our losses, teams made their open looks when we doubled down. Hard to come up with a strategy to beat that.

There's really only one strategy that could have helped this team win over the past three and that is make your outside shots and make sure you get good looks. They failed in the former, and did okay in the latter. If this team doesn't make shots, they don't win. period.

In terms of roster, I'd take each of our starting 5 in a heartbeat. After that the falloff was radical. There wasn't a single game where our bigs, Keita and Roberts outplayed the opposition, and nearly all the time they were tremendously overmatched either by skilled Euro plodders, athletic and talented bigs, really anyone 6'8 or better. The height differential was too much for our top 5 to make up for considering the lack of depth. In college 2 fouls in the 1st half puts you on the bench, 3 in early 2nd half bendches you again, and 4 anytime above 7 minutes benches you. With just 5 capable players, it was too much to ask our smaller guys to play physical against larger opponents.

The staff greatly overrated what Keita would bring. The knee injury hurt for sure, but he hasn't shown much. Roberts get puched around too easily.

Heron and Ponds injuries hurt a ton.

I didn't go over the top after big wins, and i didn't lose it after we lost winnable games.


Still and all, 10 wins were attainable, and 9 looks like would have locked up a bid - certainly 10 would. Big disappointment, but I'd also remind you guys that just 3 weeks ago, the biggest and nastiest critics right now were singng that they loved this team and it was among their favorite. You can't have it both ways after a 3 game collapse.


Think of our collective mindset. We would have collecitvely been calling for Xavier's coach to be fired after their miserable start. We'd be moaning over Nova and MArquette's late season swoon, and if we were Providence fans, moaning how Cooley can't coach and the team sucks. Forget about being a DePaul fan, who makes our program seem like Duke.

Facts are facts though. We lost 2 to Providence, Xavier, and DePaul, and without inspection makes for an unsuccessful campaign. It's disappointing, and depressing.

I had said a few weeks ago that 9-9 in conference without a bid would make this season a disappointment. 8-10 certainly is a failed season. I'd like for us to have been healthy and see how it went, but injuries are part of the game.[/quote]

Beast, great post as usual and I hope you know how much I and many other posters appreciate your insight. Even if they were to win their first 2 games in the BET (unlikely), I would still deem this a failed season. In 4 years, the recruiting is still bad and they just play an awful to watch style of basketball. I really would love to watch one of their practices because they really do nothing all that well. There is no offensive flow, they can't rebound, they can't defend. I mean, basic basketball fundamentals such as boxing out are missing from all their games. Yes, they are undersized and yes, more times than not they are going to beaten on the boards. But God almighty, sometimes it's like watching elementary school players out there with how many times they are out of position and not doing the little things.

It's funny, if there is one thing that encapsulates this season for me, it's Femi Olujobi. Regardless of how they felt about Sedee Keita, Mullin and the staff had to know they were shorthanded up front. When really your 2nd big man is Josh Roberts, there's a problem. Yet, Mullin couldn't even make the time to be on campus and meet with him. I mean, this is a grad transfer originally from Long Island who was averaging 16 and 7 at NCAT. Why would you completely mail that in? For me, it was just evidence of the fact that Mullin isn't going to go above and beyond for this job.[/quote] Excellent posts and points by you and Beast
 
[quote="SJU11phd" post=329082][quote="Beast of the East" post=329015][quote="SJU11phd" post=328982][quote="mjmaherjr" post=328925]Overall the kids we have are good kids. They make mistakes on the court like other kids maybe some more and maybe some the same mistakes but the kids are good kids. We can be unhappy with where we are as a team conference record wise but the kids dont deserve thread titles with their names on them knocking them.

And no-one including staff deserves personal shots. We are all adults if we cant set an example and treat people the way we'd want to be treated then it says more about us than the kids[/quote]

Yeah these kids are great kids...... they averaged like 2 technical fouls a game. True role models. I had to explain to my son every game I brought him to not to act like these clowns. Although I can’t really blame them because their coach is the epitome of low class and clueless on top of that. Mr Cragg please bail us out of this nightmare.[/quote]

I can't help but be disappointed by your post. Just what has anyone on this staff done to be worthy of the term "low class"? Grow up in flatbush maybe? Father a customs agent? Aunts who are nuns? No PhD?

I've had season tickets since I was a student. My adult children have been to games with me since they were 5 or 6. Not once have I had to condemn a players on court actions by explaining it to them. At last count I had 13 techs on the team, which is less than 0.5 per game - way more than last season but you exaggerated. All player techs were two categories - double techs for 2 players shoving, and mouthing too much at a ref in frustration. Personally I'd be much more concerned with how a parent unduly describes the class and character of students and coaches based on wins or losses than how our guys actually conducted themselves[/quote]

Lol you're ok with averaging a technical foul every other game? That is absolutely ridiculous even if I did exaggerate. That's basically all on the coaching staff. 18-21 year old kids will be kids, but it's up to the adults on the coaching staff to control their players. Mullin was a failure in that aspect along with most other aspects of coaching. So yes I did have to tell my son it is not acceptable to act like that on the court, and to show the refs respect even if you don't agree with their calls.

I mostly just feel bad for the players like Shamorie who thought he was going to be a first round pick this year, and probably is going to end up overseas now after a disappointing season caused mostly by the lack of a competent coaching staff.[/quote]
If Shamorie has the talent and, more importantly, the desire to play in the NBA he will wind up there. It may take him a little longer than he thought, but this season and this staff is not what will stop him from playing in the NBA.
 
[quote="Monte" post=329130][quote="SJU11phd" post=329082][quote="Beast of the East" post=329015][quote="SJU11phd" post=328982][quote="mjmaherjr" post=328925]Overall the kids we have are good kids. They make mistakes on the court like other kids maybe some more and maybe some the same mistakes but the kids are good kids. We can be unhappy with where we are as a team conference record wise but the kids dont deserve thread titles with their names on them knocking them.

And no-one including staff deserves personal shots. We are all adults if we cant set an example and treat people the way we'd want to be treated then it says more about us than the kids[/quote]

Yeah these kids are great kids...... they averaged like 2 technical fouls a game. True role models. I had to explain to my son every game I brought him to not to act like these clowns. Although I can’t really blame them because their coach is the epitome of low class and clueless on top of that. Mr Cragg please bail us out of this nightmare.[/quote]

I can't help but be disappointed by your post. Just what has anyone on this staff done to be worthy of the term "low class"? Grow up in flatbush maybe? Father a customs agent? Aunts who are nuns? No PhD?

I've had season tickets since I was a student. My adult children have been to games with me since they were 5 or 6. Not once have I had to condemn a players on court actions by explaining it to them. At last count I had 13 techs on the team, which is less than 0.5 per game - way more than last season but you exaggerated. All player techs were two categories - double techs for 2 players shoving, and mouthing too much at a ref in frustration. Personally I'd be much more concerned with how a parent unduly describes the class and character of students and coaches based on wins or losses than how our guys actually conducted themselves[/quote]

Lol you're ok with averaging a technical foul every other game? That is absolutely ridiculous even if I did exaggerate. That's basically all on the coaching staff. 18-21 year old kids will be kids, but it's up to the adults on the coaching staff to control their players. Mullin was a failure in that aspect along with most other aspects of coaching. So yes I did have to tell my son it is not acceptable to act like that on the court, and to show the refs respect even if you don't agree with their calls.

I mostly just feel bad for the players like Shamorie who thought he was going to be a first round pick this year, and probably is going to end up overseas now after a disappointing season caused mostly by the lack of a competent coaching staff.[/quote]
If Shamorie has the talent and, more importantly, the desire to play in the NBA he will wind up there. It may take him a little longer than he thought, but this season and this staff is not what will stop him from playing in the NBA.[/quote]

Only thing is can he take the pounding in the nba
 
[quote="SJU11phd" post=329082][quote="Beast of the East" post=329015][quote="SJU11phd" post=328982][quote="mjmaherjr" post=328925]Overall the kids we have are good kids. They make mistakes on the court like other kids maybe some more and maybe some the same mistakes but the kids are good kids. We can be unhappy with where we are as a team conference record wise but the kids dont deserve thread titles with their names on them knocking them.

And no-one including staff deserves personal shots. We are all adults if we cant set an example and treat people the way we'd want to be treated then it says more about us than the kids[/quote]

Yeah these kids are great kids...... they averaged like 2 technical fouls a game. True role models. I had to explain to my son every game I brought him to not to act like these clowns. Although I can’t really blame them because their coach is the epitome of low class and clueless on top of that. Mr Cragg please bail us out of this nightmare.[/quote]

I can't help but be disappointed by your post. Just what has anyone on this staff done to be worthy of the term "low class"? Grow up in flatbush maybe? Father a customs agent? Aunts who are nuns? No PhD?

I've had season tickets since I was a student. My adult children have been to games with me since they were 5 or 6. Not once have I had to condemn a players on court actions by explaining it to them. At last count I had 13 techs on the team, which is less than 0.5 per game - way more than last season but you exaggerated. All player techs were two categories - double techs for 2 players shoving, and mouthing too much at a ref in frustration. Personally I'd be much more concerned with how a parent unduly describes the class and character of students and coaches based on wins or losses than how our guys actually conducted themselves[/quote]

Lol you're ok with averaging a technical foul every other game? That is absolutely ridiculous even if I did exaggerate. That's basically all on the coaching staff. 18-21 year old kids will be kids, but it's up to the adults on the coaching staff to control their players. Mullin was a failure in that aspect along with most other aspects of coaching. So yes I did have to tell my son it is not acceptable to act like that on the court, and to show the refs respect even if you don't agree with their calls.

I mostly just feel bad for the players like Shamorie who thought he was going to be a first round pick this year, and probably is going to end up overseas now after a disappointing season caused mostly by the lack of a competent coaching staff.[/quote]

Tell your son that if he should become a PhD not to broadcast it in a user name. No one cares except it makes a person appear to think he is superior. Tell your son that st John's has an entire school nm of pharmacy where every graduate comes out as a doctorate as does every lawyer, yet very few flaunt the title.

Tell your son that our coach is not "low class" at all but that the epitome of class is coming to work every day and being quiet about a very serious family situation where by low class men who are imbeciles will demean his character though he wont use it as an excuse.

Can I be clearer?
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=329042]There is stuff that has been going on this season that will become news all too soon. I wish we could all control our emotions better and not make a disappointing season a reason to attack some really good kids and men who coach them. When the news comes out some of you will regret the nasty stuff you've been saying. At least those of you with brains.

In the end, our roster is just too thin and too short. In game strategy can only do so much when you basically have 2 small forwards as your big men, and three guards comprising your rotation. Basketball is unforgiving when it comes to height, and in the absence of height, the lack of depth has been a crusher for us.

When you have to double down, teams with skilled big men will kick it to open perimeter players. One on one, we got crushed by big men who seemed to score at will. In our losses, teams made their open looks when we doubled down. Hard to come up with a strategy to beat that.

There's really only one strategy that could have helped this team win over the past three and that is make your outside shots and make sure you get good looks. They failed in the former, and did okay in the latter. If this team doesn't make shots, they don't win. period.

In terms of roster, I'd take each of our starting 5 in a heartbeat. After that the falloff was radical. There wasn't a single game where our bigs, Keita and Roberts outplayed the opposition, and nearly all the time they were tremendously overmatched either by skilled Euro plodders, athletic and talented bigs, really anyone 6'8 or better. The height differential was too much for our top 5 to make up for considering the lack of depth. In college 2 fouls in the 1st half puts you on the bench, 3 in early 2nd half bendches you again, and 4 anytime above 7 minutes benches you. With just 5 capable players, it was too much to ask our smaller guys to play physical against larger opponents.

The staff greatly overrated what Keita would bring. The knee injury hurt for sure, but he hasn't shown much. Roberts get puched around too easily.

Heron and Ponds injuries hurt a ton.

I didn't go over the top after big wins, and i didn't lose it after we lost winnable games.


Still and all, 10 wins were attainable, and 9 looks like would have locked up a bid - certainly 10 would. Big disappointment, but I'd also remind you guys that just 3 weeks ago, the biggest and nastiest critics right now were singng that they loved this team and it was among their favorite. You can't have it both ways after a 3 game collapse.


Think of our collective mindset. We would have collecitvely been calling for Xavier's coach to be fired after their miserable start. We'd be moaning over Nova and MArquette's late season swoon, and if we were Providence fans, moaning how Cooley can't coach and the team sucks. Forget about being a DePaul fan, who makes our program seem like Duke.

Facts are facts though. We lost 2 to Providence, Xavier, and DePaul, and without inspection makes for an unsuccessful campaign. It's disappointing, and depressing.

I had said a few weeks ago that 9-9 in conference without a bid would make this season a disappointment. 8-10 certainly is a failed season. I'd like for us to have been healthy and see how it went, but injuries are part of the game.[/quote]

Awesome post, Beast. Well-said and the heartfelt angst of a true fan, with insight and perspective. Thank you.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=329148][quote="Beast of the East" post=329042]There is stuff that has been going on this season that will become news all too soon. I wish we could all control our emotions better and not make a disappointing season a reason to attack some really good kids and men who coach them. When the news comes out some of you will regret the nasty stuff you've been saying. At least those of you with brains.

In the end, our roster is just too thin and too short. In game strategy can only do so much when you basically have 2 small forwards as your big men, and three guards comprising your rotation. Basketball is unforgiving when it comes to height, and in the absence of height, the lack of depth has been a crusher for us.

When you have to double down, teams with skilled big men will kick it to open perimeter players. One on one, we got crushed by big men who seemed to score at will. In our losses, teams made their open looks when we doubled down. Hard to come up with a strategy to beat that.

There's really only one strategy that could have helped this team win over the past three and that is make your outside shots and make sure you get good looks. They failed in the former, and did okay in the latter. If this team doesn't make shots, they don't win. period.

In terms of roster, I'd take each of our starting 5 in a heartbeat. After that the falloff was radical. There wasn't a single game where our bigs, Keita and Roberts outplayed the opposition, and nearly all the time they were tremendously overmatched either by skilled Euro plodders, athletic and talented bigs, really anyone 6'8 or better. The height differential was too much for our top 5 to make up for considering the lack of depth. In college 2 fouls in the 1st half puts you on the bench, 3 in early 2nd half bendches you again, and 4 anytime above 7 minutes benches you. With just 5 capable players, it was too much to ask our smaller guys to play physical against larger opponents.

The staff greatly overrated what Keita would bring. The knee injury hurt for sure, but he hasn't shown much. Roberts get puched around too easily.

Heron and Ponds injuries hurt a ton.

I didn't go over the top after big wins, and i didn't lose it after we lost winnable games.


Still and all, 10 wins were attainable, and 9 looks like would have locked up a bid - certainly 10 would. Big disappointment, but I'd also remind you guys that just 3 weeks ago, the biggest and nastiest critics right now were singng that they loved this team and it was among their favorite. You can't have it both ways after a 3 game collapse.


Think of our collective mindset. We would have collecitvely been calling for Xavier's coach to be fired after their miserable start. We'd be moaning over Nova and MArquette's late season swoon, and if we were Providence fans, moaning how Cooley can't coach and the team sucks. Forget about being a DePaul fan, who makes our program seem like Duke.

Facts are facts though. We lost 2 to Providence, Xavier, and DePaul, and without inspection makes for an unsuccessful campaign. It's disappointing, and depressing.

I had said a few weeks ago that 9-9 in conference without a bid would make this season a disappointment. 8-10 certainly is a failed season. I'd like for us to have been healthy and see how it went, but injuries are part of the game.[/quote]

Awesome post, Beast. Well-said and the heartfelt angst of a true fan, with insight and perspective. Thank you.[/quote]

Believe it or not my family hasn't quit on this team and are going weds night. Would love to meet you. Thanks for your reply
 
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