NIT Bracketology - St John's In

[quote="Sherman, Sheridan & Grant" post=273303]Do we need to be .500 to qualify? Over .500?[/quote]

Nope. They changed the rules. RPI and SOS probably are the biggest indicator for us. Not sure how they will look at our in conference record.
 
I think they need to get 3 more wins to get NIT bid. 17-16 with wins over Duke & Nova would probably do it.

I agree. I don't care what the official rule is on .500 record, don't see us getting an NIT bid with a losing regular season record unless we get to BE final, in which case we might have a shot.
 
I agree we need wins, but a secondary tournament probably needs buzz, and if you can find a way to work a kid like Ponds into your tournament, would you do it? I would if I'm on NIT committee. But at the same time I'm crossing my fingers that they win their next five games.
 
A 6 man exhausted team is not going to get far in any tournament, Big East or otherwise. That ship has sailed but there is always hope.
 
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[quote="NCJohnnie" post=273355]I don't care what the official rule is on .500 record, don't see us getting an NIT bid with a losing regular season record unless we get to BE final, in which case we might have a shot.[/quote]

SOS = 11
Real time RPI = 77
NYC = #1 DMA
 
This is a very unpredictable team without Lovett. We have 5 talented / very talented starters but Trimble comprises the entire 'bench'. We hit a hot streak at a great time--that restored some pride.
The 2nd Marquette game brought me down-to-earth.We have little-to-zero room for an 'off' game.
I got giddy and--before Marquette this week--thought we could run-the-table in the regular BET Season.
Now, I'm hoping we can beat the Hall, doubt we can beat Butler (who trounced us away), and have no clue about 'which' Providence team shows up (or which Johnnies team, for that matter).
Maybe, I'm a reverse 'lucky' charm!
Let's go Johnnies.
 
I can see us winning 3 out of the next 5 to get into the NIT and I also can see us losing the next 4.

Very little margin for error

That being said I think we win tomorrow but I'm not calling my local small businessman to place a wager because I would mush us
 
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[quote="Chicago Days" post=273404]This is a very unpredictable team without Lovett. We have 5 talented / very talented starters but Trimble comprises the entire 'bench'. We hit a hot streak at a great time--that restored some pride.
The 2nd Marquette game brought me down-to-earth.We have little-to-zero room for an 'off' game.
I got giddy and--before Marquette this week--thought we could run-the-table in the regular BET Season.
Now, I'm hoping we can beat the Hall, doubt we can beat Butler (who trounced us away), and have no clue about 'which' Providence team shows up (or which Johnnies team, for that matter).
Maybe, I'm a reverse 'lucky' charm!
Let's go Johnnies.[/quote]

I see us finishing 15-16 regular season. That is nowhere near NIT territory regardless of SOS. We would have to win 2 in the Big East tournament. I would love to be wrong but end of game fatigue will become a problem. When you factor in the erratic play of Ahmed and Owens and the complete banishment of Yakwe there may be not enough legs to finish the race.
 
[quote="fun" post=273402][quote="NCJohnnie" post=273355]I don't care what the official rule is on .500 record, don't see us getting an NIT bid with a losing regular season record unless we get to BE final, in which case we might have a shot.[/quote]

SOS = 11
Real time RPI = 77
NYC = #1 DMA[/quote]

The only reason STJ got into the tourney with .500 records, or even 1/2 game above .500 records, in the old days was because the tourney was owned by the MIBA, of which St Johns was an owner/member and the showcase program, Manhattan, Fordham, Wagner and NYU being the others. They'll need to get to 18 wins to get on the NIT bubble. If they don't that RPI won't be 77 either and a 17 win season is a 16 win season in the selection committees eyes since they don't recognize the Molloy win.

PS when they sold out to the NCAA St Johns got $9 million ($1 mill annually for nine years) plus a % of NIT profits for 10 years.
 
[quote="austour" post=273411]The only reason STJ got into the tourney with .500 records, or even 1/2 game above .500 records, in the old days was because the tourney was owned by the MIBA, of which St Johns was an owner/member and the showcase program, Manhattan, Fordham, Wagner and NYU being the others. They'll need to get to 18 wins to get on the NIT bubble. If they don't that RPI won't be 77 either and a 17 win season is a 16 win season in the selection committees eyes since they don't recognize the Molloy win.

PS when they sold out to the NCAA St Johns got $9 million ($1 mill annually for nine years) plus a % of NIT profits for 10 years.[/quote]

What are you even babbling about?

Since 1960 - that's about 60 years, half as long as basketball has existed - SJ has made the NIT 15 times:

Lapchick
17-8
21-5
21-8

Lou
18-8
21-8


Mulzoff
18-9
19-11

Lou
20-7
17-11
20-13

Mahoney
14-14

Jarvis
21-13

Norm
17-16

Laviin
17-16
20-13

Three of those teams were 500-ish and one of them was in the "old days," if you consider the Mahoney years the old days. There's no pattern relevant to the NIT selection process there, there's no "the only reason STJ got into the tourney" there, and there's absolutely nothing that's relevant to the 2018 NIT selection process there.

Other than that you made some excellent points.

PS Zzzzzzzzzzz
 
[quote="fun" post=273433][quote="austour" post=273411]The only reason STJ got into the tourney with .500 records, or even 1/2 game above .500 records, in the old days was because the tourney was owned by the MIBA, of which St Johns was an owner/member and the showcase program, Manhattan, Fordham, Wagner and NYU being the others. They'll need to get to 18 wins to get on the NIT bubble. If they don't that RPI won't be 77 either and a 17 win season is a 16 win season in the selection committees eyes since they don't recognize the Molloy win.

PS when they sold out to the NCAA St Johns got $9 million ($1 mill annually for nine years) plus a % of NIT profits for 10 years.[/quote]

What are you even babbling about?

Since 1960 - that's about 60 years, half as long as basketball has existed - SJ has made the NIT 15 times:

Lapchick
17-8
21-5
21-8

Lou
18-8
21-8


Mulzoff
18-9
19-11

Lou
20-7
17-11
20-13

Mahoney
14-14

Jarvis
21-13

Norm
17-16

Laviin
17-16
20-13

Three of those teams were 500-ish and one of them was in the "old days," if you consider the Mahoney years the old days. There's no pattern relevant to the NIT selection process there, there's no "the only reason STJ got into the tourney" there, and there's absolutely nothing that's relevant to the 2018 NIT selection process there.

Other than that you made some excellent points.

PS Zzzzzzzzzzz[/quote]

In the "modern" era St. John's had fewer NIT appearances because until the Mahoney fiasco we usually went to the Bigger Dance, the NCAA. After Jarvis, only your friend Lavin succeeded in going to multiple NCAA tourneys. Now, we are debating if we can become an NIT bubble team while fighting not to be in last place in the conference. ...again.:whistle:
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=273436][quote="fun" post=273433][quote="austour" post=273411]
Lou
17-11
20-13 - Actually 15 and 13 on

Mahoney
14-14

Jarvis
21-13

Norm
17-16

Laviin
17-16
20-13

Three of those teams were 500-ish and one of them was in the "old days," if you consider the Mahoney years the old days. There's no pattern relevant to the NIT selection process there, there's no "the only reason STJ got into the tourney" there, and there's absolutely nothing that's relevant to the 2018 NIT selection process there.

Other than that you made some excellent points.

PS Zzzzzzzzzzz[/quote]

In the "modern" era St. John's had fewer NIT appearances because until the Mahoney fiasco we usually went to the Bigger Dance, the NCAA. After Jarvis, only your friend Lavin succeeded in going to multiple NCAA tourneys. Now, we are debating if we can become an NIT bubble team while fighting not to be in last place in the conference. ...again.:whistle:[/quote]


My history starts with the Mullin years. Since that time:

In 88/89 STJ was 15-13 on selection Sunday, Got an undeserved NIT bid and won it to finish at 20-13.

In 94/95 STJ was 14-13 on selection Sunday. Got an undeserved NIT bid. Lost to go 14-14.

In 02/03 STJ was 16-13 on selction Sunday. Got an underserved NIT bid and won it to finish 21-13 on Hatten's shoulders. This marked the last time STJ had a chance to be relevant. Firing Jarvis that year might have reversed the trend to mediocrity that has followed on to this day. Instead the auto NIT bid saved Jarvis' job. The rest is history.

So yeah, maybe I exaggerated but from the time I started caring until the sale of the NIT to the NCAA's St Johns was never denied an NIT bid in year's it did not make the dance and had a .500 or better record. That finally started happening after the sale with Norm's 16-15 06/07 team being denied an NIT bid. And that's not an exaggeration, it's a MIBA privilege that no one but St Johns had access to. That's all I'm saying. Similar STJ teams to the examples above would not make the NIT now. Teams better than those STJ teams were left at home because they weren't perceived to be able to sell MSG tix. That is no longer a consideration on NIT selection Sunday.
 
Now that I have a keyboard let me expand on my laughing fit. If they win Saturday then lose to Marquette in the BET they will be in the bottom two in the BE. They will not make the NIT as a bottom 2 BE team with what amounts to a 15-16 record against D1 teams and an RPI in the 80s, especially since the committee made it known that how you play in the final 10 is not as important as it used to be - and that's one of the few above average accomplishments of the team this year. Even if they beat Providence they have to win at least 2 in the BET to feel confident about an NIT bid.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=273399]A 6 man exhausted team is not going to get far in any tournament, Big East or otherwise. That ship has sailed but there is always hope.[/quote]

72, I wouldn't underestimate this group. They fought to the end only to lose all of them in January.
They found a way to give us the best damn week to me since the Artest days. Norms seniors had some great wins, but they never had a week where they beat #4, then 4 days later go to #1 and win in their house. Special week.
Then last night (without Ponds.) With 4 real players to play double OT, and get the W.
That right there tells you this is a special team. You can't say this team can't do this or can't do that, and they won't allow anyone to tell them they can't.
These guys are the ultimate warriors, they won't stop because they can't stop, if they stop they know no NIT at the least.

Win the next 3, assure the NIT, and get to Friday night.
To me anything more then that next week is BUTTERS.
 
This sport is all about the money. Everything else is a distant second. St John’s is a draw. I think they get in with one more top 50 win. They would have five wins against teams in the top 55 with two top 5 wins

They still have to pull out a win tomorrow against number 39 at a tough place to play.

PC can either suck or play like world beaters. A win depends on which PC shows up tomorrow. I hope it’s the one I watched play in Connecticut back in December
 
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