NFL Name Change

[quote="Class of 72" post=393010][quote="SJUFAN2" post=392960][quote="Knight" post=392950][quote="SJUFAN2" post=392944][quote="Knight" post=392935]
If you are so sensitive to the name, why are you on a site called Redmen.com?[/quote]

Because we understand that the name "Redmen" wasn't related to Indians. It was chosen because all the schools the athletes wore red shirts as uniforms.
You understand the difference between calling a team of men "Redmen" for wearing the same red uniform, vs calling a team "Redskins" with an icon featuring a minority with red skin who rarely, if ever, would have the opportunity to play on that team...don't you?[/quote]

I have heard the origin you relate, but I also remember seeing a cigar store Indian (Black Jack) and an Indian mascot at BB games.[/quote]

Yup. The Indian mascot was adopted in the 1960's. A few decades later it was disposed of because it was finally understood how insulting it was to Indians, who had nothing to do with the name, or the school.

You could ask Paul to change the domain name for this site to RedStorm.com, but I think that one is already spoken for. On the plus side...Redskins.com is likely available soon, and for a song.[/quote]

The Indian mascot was around since the late 40's. The term redmen was never meant to be insulting or racist. In sports American Indians were viewed as warriors and proud. It was used in reverence to our indigenous peoples.
It wasn't even thought of as offensive until the myopic intelligentsia of the 90's thought they needed to guide American society out of the age of darkness by using racism as their shaming curriculum.
That these shit stirrers are still with us and have infected every aspect of society is why everyone is a target for something that never had to do with the crime they accuse you of.
Using racism as a weapon is like using Communist in the 50's.
Get on board......but this ain't no peace train.[/quote]

Wiki...

...Prior to the 1994–95 school year, the university's nickname was the St. John's Redmen, which referenced the red uniforms worn by its teams in competition. The name was interpreted as a Native American reference in the 1960s, and the university did have a mascot (adorned in Native American dress), which eventually led to the team's name change to the Red Storm. The change happened at a time when there was mounting pressure on colleges and universities to adopt names more sensitive to Native American culture.[6][7] The Redmen name still remains popular among fans, however, as does "Johnnies". On September 18, 2009 the new mascot, which was voted on by students, was revealed; Johnny Thunderbird.

NY Post...

The nickname “Redmen” was instituted in the 1920s because the men’s teams wore red uniforms. Over time it took on a Native American connection, in the form of a Native American headdress on the back of St. John’s jackets, as the team logo, and the mascot was a warrior-like Native American.
 
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This is sure to upset some of you snowflakes:



"....where Pale Face and Red Skin both turn chicken...." lol
 
I had said at the time that I would have been much happier with the name change had St. John's done something at all to improve the life of Native Americans, such as endowed scholarship for native american students, a native american cultural center or course curriculum.

Instead, we simply dropped the name which had zero impact on improving the lives of marginalized native americans. Thank God for casino gambling on sovereign lands, which in some tribes has paid members hundreds of thousands of dollars.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=393034]I had said at the time that I would have been much happier with the name change had St. John's done something at all to improve the life of Native Americans, such as endowed scholarship for native american students, a native american cultural center or course curriculum.

Instead, we simply dropped the name which had zero impact on improving the lives of marginalized native americans. Thank God for casino gambling on sovereign lands, which in some tribes has paid members hundreds of thousands of dollars.[/quote]

Exactly Beast. So they changed the name from the Bullets to the Wizards. Has that stopped Bullets from continuing to fly in DC and Balt? Has it even helped one iota? Not saying that they shouldn't have changed the name, but all this PC/feel good stuff does absolutely nothing to address the problem. In fact, it's often a substitute for addressing the problem.
 
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[quote="Monte" post=393038][quote="Beast of the East" post=393034]I had said at the time that I would have been much happier with the name change had St. John's done something at all to improve the life of Native Americans, such as endowed scholarship for native american students, a native american cultural center or course curriculum.

Instead, we simply dropped the name which had zero impact on improving the lives of marginalized native americans. Thank God for casino gambling on sovereign lands, which in some tribes has paid members hundreds of thousands of dollars.[/quote]

Exactly Beast. So the changed the name for the Bullets to the Wizards. Has that stopped Bullets from continuing to fly in DC and Balt? Has it even helped one iota. Not saying that they shouldn't have changed the name, but all this PCfeel good stuff does absolutely nothing to address the problem. In fact, its often a substitute for addressing the problem.[/quote]

You know its funny, how certain people like you and I don't circle the wagons and just protect some ideological party concept. I am for stricter gun control, better background checks, elimination of automatic weapons for anyone not in law enforcement or military, armor piercing or dum-dum bullets. However, all of that legislation will not be impactful in the highest crime communities where the bullets are literally flying. After years and years of the renaissance of Brooklyn, on Monday night alone there were a dozen shootings - a crazy number for a Monday. I sincerely doubt that any/many shots were fired from licensed handguns. You can change team names, you can even try to legislate, but you must address the entire problem if there are going to ever be real solutions.

For the record, I don't agree that Indian team names were ever meant to give honor to proud native Americans. We often use violent phrases to describe sports contests and conquests such as beat, crushed, annihilated, murdered, whipped, destroyed. The animals that teams choose as names as predatory mostly- Lions, Tigers, Bears, or birds of prey, eagles falcons, hawks. Indian names were chosen to represent violent warriors, not indigenous peace loving farmers. The caricatures of mascots often with garishly ethnic - dark red skin, large noses, etc. Some native american advocacy group took out an ad about 40 years ago showing proposed nicknames of ethnic and religious groups with stereotypical caricatures as mascots, their point being that teams named after native Americans are offensive.

I love living on Long Island, where many towns, such as Manhasset and Massapequa are an ode to the native americans that lived here. However, we've done little to address the carnage inflicted on native american by policy or violence.

When you consider what was done to Jews by the Nazis, to Native Americans including indigenous living in Texas, Arizona and California, and lesser atrocities committed against Japanese and Italian Americans, to religious persecutions against Catholics, Muslims, Mormons, and others, that validates what has recently become unspeakable - that all lives (deliberately not capitalized) matter equally.
 
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[quote="Monte" post=393038][quote="Beast of the East" post=393034]I had said at the time that I would have been much happier with the name change had St. John's done something at all to improve the life of Native Americans, such as endowed scholarship for native american students, a native american cultural center or course curriculum.

Instead, we simply dropped the name which had zero impact on improving the lives of marginalized native americans. Thank God for casino gambling on sovereign lands, which in some tribes has paid members hundreds of thousands of dollars.[/quote]

Exactly Beast. So the changed the name for the Bullets to the Wizards. Has that stopped Bullets from continuing to fly in DC and Balt? Has it even helped one iota. Not saying that they shouldn't have changed the name, but all this PCfeel good stuff does absolutely nothing to address the problem. In fact, its often a substitute for addressing the problem.[/quote]

I consider myself pretty progressive/Left/whatever but this is a very fair criticism. I'm 100% in favor of changing all these names, taking down confederate statues, etc but it's much easier to write self-righteous Facebook posts and angry tweets about a team name than it is to commit to work that will more directly affect the lives of the people everyone claims to be defending, To Beast's point, removing symbols of oppression is truly just symbolic if it's not coupled with tangible help (monetary or policy-based)
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=393021][quote="Class of 72" post=393010][quote="SJUFAN2" post=392960][quote="Knight" post=392950][quote="SJUFAN2" post=392944][quote="Knight" post=392935]
If you are so sensitive to the name, why are you on a site called Redmen.com?[/quote]

Because we understand that the name "Redmen" wasn't related to Indians. It was chosen because all the schools the athletes wore red shirts as uniforms.
You understand the difference between calling a team of men "Redmen" for wearing the same red uniform, vs calling a team "Redskins" with an icon featuring a minority with red skin who rarely, if ever, would have the opportunity to play on that team...don't you?[/quote]

I have heard the origin you relate, but I also remember seeing a cigar store Indian (Black Jack) and an Indian mascot at BB games.[/quote]

Yup. The Indian mascot was adopted in the 1960's. A few decades later it was disposed of because it was finally understood how insulting it was to Indians, who had nothing to do with the name, or the school.

You could ask Paul to change the domain name for this site to RedStorm.com, but I think that one is already spoken for. On the plus side...Redskins.com is likely available soon, and for a song.[/quote]

The Indian mascot was around since the late 40's. The term redmen was never meant to be insulting or racist. In sports American Indians were viewed as warriors and proud. It was used in reverence to our indigenous peoples.
It wasn't even thought of as offensive until the myopic intelligentsia of the 90's thought they needed to guide American society out of the age of darkness by using racism as their shaming curriculum.
That these shit stirrers are still with us and have infected every aspect of society is why everyone is a target for something that never had to do with the crime they accuse you of.
Using racism as a weapon is like using Communist in the 50's.
Get on board......but this ain't no peace train.[/quote]

Wiki...

...Prior to the 1994–95 school year, the university's nickname was the St. John's Redmen, which referenced the red uniforms worn by its teams in competition. The name was interpreted as a Native American reference in the 1960s, and the university did have a mascot (adorned in Native American dress), which eventually led to the team's name change to the Red Storm. The change happened at a time when there was mounting pressure on colleges and universities to adopt names more sensitive to Native American culture.[6][7] The Redmen name still remains popular among fans, however, as does "Johnnies". On September 18, 2009 the new mascot, which was voted on by students, was revealed; Johnny Thunderbird.

NY Post...

The nickname “Redmen” was instituted in the 1920s because the men’s teams wore red uniforms. Over time it took on a Native American connection, in the form of a Native American headdress on the back of St. John’s jackets, as the team logo, and the mascot was a warrior-like Native American.[/quote]

We're all able to Google articles.....thank you. But the Indian reference goes back to the 1940's and there are fans here actually old enough to remember games at the old Garden where the Chief was honored on the court.
Nice attempt at rewriting history as usual but it seems being wrong to you seems to make you go manic in online research to prove a point that is meaningless to the subject. You are living in an age of newly WOKE superior morality that attempts to erase history and its meaning and dumb it down to make it more palatable to sheep.
 
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[quote="Class of 72" post=393049][quote="SJUFAN2" post=393021][quote="Class of 72" post=393010][quote="SJUFAN2" post=392960][quote="Knight" post=392950][quote="SJUFAN2" post=392944][quote="Knight" post=392935]
If you are so sensitive to the name, why are you on a site called Redmen.com?[/quote]

Because we understand that the name "Redmen" wasn't related to Indians. It was chosen because all the schools the athletes wore red shirts as uniforms.
You understand the difference between calling a team of men "Redmen" for wearing the same red uniform, vs calling a team "Redskins" with an icon featuring a minority with red skin who rarely, if ever, would have the opportunity to play on that team...don't you?[/quote]

I have heard the origin you relate, but I also remember seeing a cigar store Indian (Black Jack) and an Indian mascot at BB games.[/quote]

Yup. The Indian mascot was adopted in the 1960's. A few decades later it was disposed of because it was finally understood how insulting it was to Indians, who had nothing to do with the name, or the school.

You could ask Paul to change the domain name for this site to RedStorm.com, but I think that one is already spoken for. On the plus side...Redskins.com is likely available soon, and for a song.[/quote]

The Indian mascot was around since the late 40's. The term redmen was never meant to be insulting or racist. In sports American Indians were viewed as warriors and proud. It was used in reverence to our indigenous peoples.
It wasn't even thought of as offensive until the myopic intelligentsia of the 90's thought they needed to guide American society out of the age of darkness by using racism as their shaming curriculum.
That these shit stirrers are still with us and have infected every aspect of society is why everyone is a target for something that never had to do with the crime they accuse you of.
Using racism as a weapon is like using Communist in the 50's.
Get on board......but this ain't no peace train.[/quote]

Wiki...

...Prior to the 1994–95 school year, the university's nickname was the St. John's Redmen, which referenced the red uniforms worn by its teams in competition. The name was interpreted as a Native American reference in the 1960s, and the university did have a mascot (adorned in Native American dress), which eventually led to the team's name change to the Red Storm. The change happened at a time when there was mounting pressure on colleges and universities to adopt names more sensitive to Native American culture.[6][7] The Redmen name still remains popular among fans, however, as does "Johnnies". On September 18, 2009 the new mascot, which was voted on by students, was revealed; Johnny Thunderbird.

NY Post...

The nickname “Redmen” was instituted in the 1920s because the men’s teams wore red uniforms. Over time it took on a Native American connection, in the form of a Native American headdress on the back of St. John’s jackets, as the team logo, and the mascot was a warrior-like Native American.[/quote]

We're all able to Google articles.....thank you. But the Indian reference goes back to the 1940's and there are fans here actually old enough to remember games at the old Garden where the Chief was honored on the court.
Nice attempt at rewriting history as usual but it seems being wrong to you seems to make you go manic in online research to prove a point that is meaningless to the subject. You are living in an age of newly WOKE superior morality that attempts to erase history and its meaning and dumb it down to make it more palatable to sheep.[/quote]

What's "google"?
 
[quote="Monte" post=393025][URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com...2cd618-187f-11e6-9e16-2e5a123aac62_story.html[/URL]

A brief history of the word from a 2016 Wash Post article. No comparison to the N word, so stop with that nonsense.[/quote]

Actual root of the word comes from the Phips Bounty Proclamation. Read up.

And yes obviously not as pejorative as the N word, but more pejorative than say Redman or Yellowman.
 
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[quote="austour" post=393079][quote="Monte" post=393025][URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com...2cd618-187f-11e6-9e16-2e5a123aac62_story.html[/URL]

A brief history of the word from a 2016 Wash Post article. No comparison to the N word, so stop with that nonsense.[/quote]

Actual root of the word comes from the Phips Bounty Proclamation. Read up.

And yes obviously not as pejorative as the N word, but more pejorative than say Redman or Yellowman.[/quote]

[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com...a11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html[/URL]

Once again I will use the Wash Post as a source. I prefer to use sources that I don't generally see eye to eye with. IMO, this is purely a matter of the owners caving to PC/ Cancel culture, and worrying about their bottom line with Fedex, etc putting pressure on them.
 
[quote="Monte" post=393086][quote="austour" post=393079][quote="Monte" post=393025][URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com...2cd618-187f-11e6-9e16-2e5a123aac62_story.html[/URL]

A brief history of the word from a 2016 Wash Post article. No comparison to the N word, so stop with that nonsense.[/quote]

Actual root of the word comes from the Phips Bounty Proclamation. Read up.

And yes obviously not as pejorative as the N word, but more pejorative than say Redman or Yellowman.[/quote]

[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com...a11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html[/URL]

Once again I will use the Wash Post as a source. I prefer to use sources that I don't generally see eye to eye with. IMO, this is purely a matter of the owners caving to PC/ Cancel culture, and worrying about their bottom line with Fedex, etc putting pressure on them.[/quote]

Snyder caved one day after the big box stores announced they would no longer sell their merchandise. Maybe they should change the team name to the Greenbacks.
 
[quote="Monte" post=393086][quote="austour" post=393079][quote="Monte" post=393025][URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com...2cd618-187f-11e6-9e16-2e5a123aac62_story.html[/URL]

A brief history of the word from a 2016 Wash Post article. No comparison to the N word, so stop with that nonsense.[/quote]

Actual root of the word comes from the Phips Bounty Proclamation. Read up.

And yes obviously not as pejorative as the N word, but more pejorative than say Redman or Yellowman.[/quote]

[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com...a11cfa-161a-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html[/URL]

Once again I will use the Wash Post as a source. I prefer to use sources that I don't generally see eye to eye with. IMO, this is purely a matter of the owners caving to PC/ Cancel culture, and worrying about their bottom line with Fedex, etc putting pressure on them.[/quote]

Of course it's about money. It's always about money.

PS that poll has been a running joke on PTI for yearsl Apparently Dan Snyder keeps a copy of the article in his wallet to show anybody who still listens to him.
 
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Idolizing a symbol of racial, religious discrimination and treason (Confederate Flag) along with statues honoring the leaders of that symbol never made much sense to me. It is well beyond time those symbols were removed. It doesn’t mean their part in history is erased (“if you don’t learn from history you are doomed to repeat it”) but they shouldn’t be bestowed with signs of honor.

Changing the name of a professional sports team that was a racist term despite whatever reason that name was chosen is the right thing to do even if the only reason is because the owner was threatened in the wallet (not unusual for change to occur).

Changing the spelling of the Nword and trying to change it into a different meaning is wrong and just stupid and offensive no matter who started the trend.

Not saying that Braves, Indians, Chiefs or Blackhawks should be changed but the one in Washington should have gone along time ago.

Being a “sheep” can also mean not wanting change because it was such that way in the past and should remain that way and try to justify it.
 
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[quote="Monte" post=393097]Leave it to the Italians to figure out the best way to deal with a statue of Mussolini, and appease most everyone.

[URL]https://www.google.com/amp/s/a...o-italian-town-defuse-controversial-monuments[/URL]

But then again, Italians have always had pretty thick skin. Sicilians even more so.[/quote]

That's funny, Monte. Wonder what the the inscription on Confederate Statues would or could be?
I think Germany outright banned all Nazi statues and / or monuments and use the former concentration camps to 'educate' people on hate. That seems wise.
 
[quote="bamafan" post=393129][quote="Monte" post=393097]Leave it to the Italians to figure out the best way to deal with a statue of Mussolini, and appease most everyone.

[URL]https://www.google.com/amp/s/a...o-italian-town-defuse-controversial-monuments[/URL]

But then again, Italians have always had pretty thick skin. Sicilians even more so.[/quote]
Does seem a better solution that the criminal destruction of property.[/quote]

Unfortunately the anarchists don't see it that way. Pretty coincidental that immediately after a few of those clowns got picked up on federal charges, the destruction came to a stop.
 
[quote="Monte" post=393133][quote="bamafan" post=393129][quote="Monte" post=393097]Leave it to the Italians to figure out the best way to deal with a statue of Mussolini, and appease most everyone.

[URL]https://www.google.com/amp/s/a...o-italian-town-defuse-controversial-monuments[/URL]

But then again, Italians have always had pretty thick skin. Sicilians even more so.[/quote]
Does seem a better solution that the criminal destruction of property.[/quote]

Unfortunately the anarchists don't see it that way. Pretty coincidental that immediately after a few of those clowns got picked up on federal charges, the destruction came to a stop.[/quote]
They got grounded
 
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