Next year

[fun]

I know you only know what your read

You talk about reading like its a bad thing. It isn't. You should try it.

I've been aorund HS circles, and I do know that any coach who is trying to get a player recruited, will suddenly say things like "This guy is the best guard I ever coached", or "He has more tlaent than anyone I've seen in 20 years", all untrue superlatives. Curran, like most guys, was asked for a referral, and with nothing to lose, offered a guy he hired and liked a chance.

I read several obituaries of Coach Curran after his recent passing. Yours is the first that called him a cynic, an opportunist, and a liar. From what I know (yes, from reading) your characterization of him is false and untoward.

What a joke to bring up Bill Self's success and attribute it to Roberts. Roberts has one role, and that's to initiate dialogue for top recruits at top schools. You might as well give the trainer at Kansas responsibility for strategy resulting in wins.

I did not attribute Self's success to Roberts. I merely noted his professional accomplishments, which include a wildly successful career as an assistant at some of the top basketball programs in the country. I doubt you have any idea what Roberts role is at Kansas and suspect Self and Billy Donovan hired him because of their respect for his basketball acumen, not in spite of his lack of it.

 

[Class of 72]

If Roberts had such a bad reputation, why did we hire him?

For any, and many, of the following reasons:
1. Norm was Catholic
2. Norm was a Queens native
3. Norm was an honest man
4. We were cheap and would not pursue talented head coaches from other major programs rather than mid majors like Manhattan College and The George Washington University (the 3 coaches after Lou C).
5. Whomever endorsed Norm's record and potential forgot to check his Queens College record. P.S., I assume it was the same person that forgot to check Brian Mahoney's 3 year destruction of the Manhattan College basketball program.
6. We were cheap.

 

[newsman13]

If Roberts had such a bad reputation, why did we hire him?

he promised to tell FH where he got his suits if he got the job.

 

[beast of the east]

I know you only know what your read

You talk about reading like its a bad thing. It isn't. You should try it.

I've been aorund HS circles, and I do know that any coach who is trying to get a player recruited, will suddenly say things like "This guy is the best guard I ever coached", or "He has more tlaent than anyone I've seen in 20 years", all untrue superlatives. Curran, like most guys, was asked for a referral, and with nothing to lose, offered a guy he hired and liked a chance.

I read several obituaries of Coach Curran after his recent passing. Yours is the first that called him a cynic, an opportunist, and a liar. From what I know (yes, from reading) your characterization of him is false and untoward.

What a joke to bring up Bill Self's success and attribute it to Roberts. Roberts has one role, and that's to initiate dialogue for top recruits at top schools. You might as well give the trainer at Kansas responsibility for strategy resulting in wins.

I did not attribute Self's success to Roberts. I merely noted his professional accomplishments, which include a wildly successful career as an assistant at some of the top basketball programs in the country. I doubt you have any idea what Roberts role is at Kansas and suspect Self and Billy Donovan hired him because of their respect for his basketball acumen, not in spite of his lack of it.

I've spent a lot of time (too much, I believe, but it served its purpose) around CHSAA HS basketball. One thing consistnet with almost all HS coaches is the used car salesmen component of their success. Anyone who thinks they don't recruit is crazy, despite all the regulations against it. Another responsbility is selling their seniors to colleges. A good coach paints the very best picture of every kid who is capable of securing a roster spot somewhere, overblowing his resume. Curran had a great run, but don't think for a second that every move was honorable. Those old enough and connected enough will recall that when a ChSAA champsionship game went into extra innings against St. Michael's I believe, it conflicted with graduation commencement for St. Michaels that was rapidly approaching minutes away. St. michael's asked for the game to be suspended till the next day. Curran refused, the game forfeited, and Molloy won through the back door. He stole players who had already enrolled in other schools by promising them varsity playing time as freshmen, something some other schools still do not do as amatter of principle. These examples don't conflict witht hose who hold him in high esteem, but in coaching circles, high esteem is not necessarily the same standard as highest esteem in other circles. In any event, Curran endorsing Roberts based on his record at Molloy as freshman coach for SJU head coach proved to be a very bad referral. Norm would never have been (and still wouldn't get) the head coaching job at Molloy HS. It's well known that Curran held a grudge against St. John's for not hiring him to replace Carnesecca when he went to the Nets. He reportedly discouraged players from considering SJU, guys like Kenny Smith and Kenny Anderson. Reportedly Robert Werdann came here despite Currans advice against it. Perhaps his Roberts referral was a sly payback to a program he came to dislike.

Do you think Roberts will replace Self at Kansas as head coach? Big joke. Roberts is a bird dog for top programs, period. For programs that sell themselves, he can be the initial contact with a kid and his family, be warm and gracious, and express interest of Kansas in a kid. Not exactly a tough job. This allows a head coach like Self the ability to be a closer, to come in and seal the deal once the school is a finalist. Roberts can do this for a big time program, and this is the limit of his capabilities. He was over his head in every head coaching opportunity he ever had, and his records prove that.

 

[fun]

Curran had a great run, but don't think for a second that every move was honorable.

[...]

It's well known that Curran held a grudge against St. John's for not hiring him to replace Carnesecca when he went to the Nets ... Perhaps his Roberts referral was a sly payback to a program he came to dislike.

A couple of weeks ago I fisked a Steve Lavin post game interview. One of the comments he made related to his father's death. I spoke of the deceased barely in passing. My comments - directed at a living human being - were acclaimed as among the worst things that had ever happened on the internet. Your voice was conspicuous among those decrying my post, which was deemed so distasteful that it was sent down the rabbit hole.

Here Curran's body is not yet cold and you slander him as a cynic, an opportunist, and a liar; you add the charge that he was a dishonorable man; and append the insane theory he's a diabolical Machiavellian who waited 30 years to exact his revenge on Lou Carnesseca for some imagined slight by recommending to his own alma mater a completely unqualified head coach.

I note the stench of your hypocrisy and await the chorus of opprobrium.

Do you think Roberts will replace Self at Kansas as head coach? Big joke. Roberts is a bird dog for top programs, period. For programs that sell themselves, he can be the initial contact with a kid and his family, be warm and gracious, and express interest of Kansas in a kid. Not exactly a tough job. This allows a head coach like Self the ability to be a closer, to come in and seal the deal once the school is a finalist. Roberts can do this for a big time program, and this is the limit of his capabilities. He was over his head in every head coaching opportunity he ever had, and his records prove that.

I would credit you with not being able to read very well, but you would probably take that as flattery.

I repeat again that you have no idea, zero, zilch, nada idea what Norm does at Kansas. He was "associate head coach" for Self at Illinois and Kansas and I trust Self's assessment of Norm over yours. If that is the "limit of his capability" he has risen higher in his chosen profession than 95 percent of the people who attempt anything.

I do admire your ability to repeat the same chimeral facts over and over again despite all evidence to the contrary. Some people might think that that suggests a lack of intelligence but those people are mean spirited. I credit you your perseverance and self confidence. I do though prefer your earlier formulation of the bird dog theory. It gives a pretty clear indication of how you think and what you are.

"The fact of the matter is [Norm] was hired to be a bird dog, and for the most part be the African American guy on a staff that helps recruit African Amercian kids [...] "NR happened to be the Willie Randolph of college assistants."

Good day to you sir.

 

[joseph albanese]

I agree with beast of the east comments-- coach JC did have a grudge against SJU for
not hiring him to replace coach LC -- I refused to accept that thought -- however i did
wonder why we never got a top player from from Malloy -- however I changed my mind
due to Weerdan coming to SJU.
My brother met and had a long talk with one of his relatives -- quote " Robert is going to SJU
regardless of all the negative advise he received from his coach " -- However coach JC
was a great coach and may he rest in peace.

 

[beast of the east]

Curran had a great run, but don't think for a second that every move was honorable.

[...]

It's well known that Curran held a grudge against St. John's for not hiring him to replace Carnesecca when he went to the Nets ... Perhaps his Roberts referral was a sly payback to a program he came to dislike.

A couple of weeks ago I fisked a Steve Lavin post game interview. One of the comments he made related to his father's death. I spoke of the deceased barely in passing. My comments - directed at a living human being - were acclaimed as among the worst things that had ever happened on the internet. Your voice was conspicuous among those decrying my post, which was deemed so distasteful that it was sent down the rabbit hole.

Here Curran's body is not yet cold and you slander him as a cynic, an opportunist, and a liar; you add the charge that he was a dishonorable man; and append the insane theory he's a diabolical Machiavellian who waited 30 years to exact his revenge on Lou Carnesseca for some imagined slight by recommending to his own alma mater a completely unqualified head coach.

I note the stench of your hypocrisy and await the chorus of opprobrium.

Do you think Roberts will replace Self at Kansas as head coach? Big joke. Roberts is a bird dog for top programs, period. For programs that sell themselves, he can be the initial contact with a kid and his family, be warm and gracious, and express interest of Kansas in a kid. Not exactly a tough job. This allows a head coach like Self the ability to be a closer, to come in and seal the deal once the school is a finalist. Roberts can do this for a big time program, and this is the limit of his capabilities. He was over his head in every head coaching opportunity he ever had, and his records prove that.

I would credit you with not being able to read very well, but you would probably take that as flattery.

I repeat again that you have no idea, zero, zilch, nada idea what Norm does at Kansas. He was "associate head coach" for Self at Illinois and Kansas and I trust Self's assessment of Norm over yours. If that is the "limit of his capability" he has risen higher in his chosen profession than 95 percent of the people who attempt anything.

I do admire your ability to repeat the same chimeral facts over and over again despite all evidence to the contrary. Some people might think that that suggests a lack of intelligence but those people are mean spirited. I credit you your perseverance and self confidence. I do though prefer your earlier formulation of the bird dog theory. It gives a pretty clear indication of how you think and what you are.

"The fact of the matter is [Norm] was hired to be a bird dog, and for the most part be the African American guy on a staff that helps recruit African Amercian kids [...] "NR happened to be the Willie Randolph of college assistants."

Good day to you sir.

Your defense of NR included a sterling recommendation from Curran, whom Roberts worked with as a freshman coach. I advised that Curran's recommendation is within the range of what any coach does for subordinates, co-workers, or players. It does not compare to your critique of a grieving Lavin making coments about the passing of his dad. Your commentary bordered on the cusp of revealing some underlying pathology on your part. What sane human being critiques a man's public grieving on the passing of his father? I guess the kind of man who uses an avatar of a sexual predator who tortured and murdered teenaged boys, and then concealed their bodies beneath his house. For you to identify with a mass murderer, and a homosexual sexual sadist maybe says more about you then anything I could say.

A lawyer as part of his profession often must defend the indefensible. Norm's tenure here cannot be adequately defended to turn into something positive. As I did point out, Jarvis had success here before the collapse, only 7 months before his firing won an NIT.

The whole point of you posting here is to attack posters personally. You get off on it, it's clear. for the most part interacting with anything you post is a waste of time. Your point is always to belittle. I hope your personal life is better than the personna you display here. You must be a riot with your kids, if you have any, or wife, if you have one. . I can't imagine you have positive relationships with either. Of course, my response to you is a personal criticism. You are a total pain in the ass. I can be one too, but the difference is, almost anyone who posts here knows where they can find me and who I am. You hide behind a screen.

Two weeks ago, you thought it was clever to analyze Lavin's grief. Instead of realizing you went over the line, you tried to defend yourself, another indefensible case.

 

[Class of 72]

Curran had a great run, but don't think for a second that every move was honorable.

[...]

It's well known that Curran held a grudge against St. John's for not hiring him to replace Carnesecca when he went to the Nets ... Perhaps his Roberts referral was a sly payback to a program he came to dislike.

A couple of weeks ago I fisked a Steve Lavin post game interview. One of the comments he made related to his father's death. I spoke of the deceased barely in passing. My comments - directed at a living human being - were acclaimed as among the worst things that had ever happened on the internet. Your voice was conspicuous among those decrying my post, which was deemed so distasteful that it was sent down the rabbit hole.

Here Curran's body is not yet cold and you slander him as a cynic, an opportunist, and a liar; you add the charge that he was a dishonorable man; and append the insane theory he's a diabolical Machiavellian who waited 30 years to exact his revenge on Lou Carnesseca for some imagined slight by recommending to his own alma mater a completely unqualified head coach.

I note the stench of your hypocrisy and await the chorus of opprobrium.

Do you think Roberts will replace Self at Kansas as head coach? Big joke. Roberts is a bird dog for top programs, period. For programs that sell themselves, he can be the initial contact with a kid and his family, be warm and gracious, and express interest of Kansas in a kid. Not exactly a tough job. This allows a head coach like Self the ability to be a closer, to come in and seal the deal once the school is a finalist. Roberts can do this for a big time program, and this is the limit of his capabilities. He was over his head in every head coaching opportunity he ever had, and his records prove that.

I would credit you with not being able to read very well, but you would probably take that as flattery.

I repeat again that you have no idea, zero, zilch, nada idea what Norm does at Kansas. He was "associate head coach" for Self at Illinois and Kansas and I trust Self's assessment of Norm over yours. If that is the "limit of his capability" he has risen higher in his chosen profession than 95 percent of the people who attempt anything.

I do admire your ability to repeat the same chimeral facts over and over again despite all evidence to the contrary. Some people might think that that suggests a lack of intelligence but those people are mean spirited. I credit you your perseverance and self confidence. I do though prefer your earlier formulation of the bird dog theory. It gives a pretty clear indication of how you think and what you are.

"The fact of the matter is [Norm] was hired to be a bird dog, and for the most part be the African American guy on a staff that helps recruit African Amercian kids [...] "NR happened to be the Willie Randolph of college assistants."

Good day to you sir.

I wish the mods gave me as much rope as they do you guys! LOL!!
I am waiting for LawmanFan, Moose, TIS or Ohio guy to come in any minute now with -----
"Have a discussion
Stop the bickering and insults.
Thanks"

Many here, me included, are still trying to forget the past 20 years of mostly forgettable college basketball at St. John's but when the Mahoney, Fraschilla, Jarvis, and Roberst eras are regurgitated, it makes me want to puke! Yes, each brought in some players that were very good but most never provided a complete supporting cast and while Mahoney and Roberts were basically loyal good guys, Jarvis and Fraschilla were self-centered opportunists that had one foot out the door every year they coached at SJ.
As for the dearly departed, please let them rest in peace!

 

[ras]

It would have been interesting to see how things would have turned out if Fran wasnt fired, he sure could recruit.

 

[lawmanfan]

Kindly refer to the thread topic. Then try to confine yourselves to it instead of baiting each other, which absolutely no one who tries to read the site is interested in. And I do mean all of you.

 

[bk8664]

Kindly refer to the thread topic. Then try to confine yourselves to it instead of baiting each other, which absolutely no one who tries to read the site is interested in. And I do mean all of you.

Some of these threads are definitely painful to try and read. Unfortunately, these days I find myself skipping most posts on threads than actually trying to read them - all because I'm trying to avoid certain handful of posters that constantly veer off topic. It would be nice if the back and forth nonsense would be minimized.

Lawmanfan, thanks for trying to keep the discussion on topic.

 

[beast of the east]

Kindly refer to the thread topic. Then try to confine yourselves to it instead of baiting each other, which absolutely no one who tries to read the site is interested in. And I do mean all of you.

Some of these threads are definitely painful to try and read. Unfortunately, these days I find myself skipping most posts on threads than actually trying to read them - all because I'm trying to avoid certain handful of posters that constantly veer off topic. It would be nice if the back and forth nonsense would be minimized.

Lawmanfan, thanks for trying to keep the discussion on topic.

I don't come here to crap on anyone. I don't criticize writing styles, spelling errors, or difference of opinion. I am gracious when someone makes a good point which contrasts with mine, and allow for self correction. The overwhelming maority of my posts support this.

I am however, publicly intolerant of those who constantly belittle, and attempt to mock others simply for having a contrasting opinion. Certainly there have been posters who cling to extreme ideas (like the success of certain coaches, vendettas against players, etc), and I've been guilty on occasion of challenging nonsense, as are most of us.

If you read how this nonsense began, just scroll back, and notice how I began a response b saying my opinion was subjective but contrasting, and what I got back was an attack. You guys might be a lot more tolerant of having certain people consistently crap on people, but I'm not.

You may be a lot more tolerant in having avatars of sexual predator mass murderers from users. Fun is a very bright guy, and I believe his little "joke" is that online, like John Wayne Gacy, he will lure people into dialogue, only to brutally attack them once engaged. If that's his idea of "Fun", and moderators think there is value in this, I don't know what to say.

Sorry to even respond to this nonsense, and I will avoid engaging this person again.

 

[fuchsia]

It would have been interesting to see how things would have turned out if Fran wasnt fired, he sure could recruit.

Fran's recruiting was probably at risk by the time he was out. The feedback on his abusiveness towards his players was circulating all over the NY BB community (I got it directly from PSAL coaches and refs at the time it happened) and the parents of at least one STJ player had gone to the administration to complain.

 

[paultzman]

One part (Spain)of Europe tour;

“@gsole14: We can announce that the famous NCAA team of @STJ_Basketball will be in our tournament @BsSantJulia next August. Welcome!”