Mike Rice Potential Opportunity

Status
Not open for further replies.
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=317132][quote="Class of 72" post=317128][quote="Beast of the East" post=317122][quote="Class of 72" post=317119][quote="Beast of the East" post=317107][quote="Mike Zaun" post=317106][quote="otis" post=317104]Yeepie .... another Mike Rice thread; just what the repetitive posters need to fill the next 10 pages of irrelevant comments to the Zagsblog article.[/quote]

Also repetitive rebuttals ;)[/quote]

yup ;) You're going to get another time out.

I hope you're not as sympathetic to your parish priest who got banished in terms of giving second chances. Then again, we have a bishop here who could play a little (Princeton JV) and probably coach a little too.[/quote]

What does a parish priest have to do with this? The Catholic faith is about second chances. St. John's university has been a pioneer of both first and second chances.
Why is it you are the only poster that stirs shit about time outside and demotions and verbal corporal punishment?
A you a survivor of sister Mary holy water's ruler to knuckles form of discipline? :dry:[/quote]

There are so many reasons on the no side to Rice that it was never a serious consideration.

The priest comment was a tweak - you should know about that. In one of Zaun's iterations he went on and on about atheism.

But you failed to answer the question also. Would we have gone after Harrison if he was dismissed for the disciplinary reasons SJU suspended him for? Lavin exercised compassion, but also considered that Harrison was his best player. Risk/reward scenario.

We weren't going to bring in a head coach type here. Slice thought he was head coach, and I'm sure we had enough of that type of thing on our bench.[/quote]

I'm really flummoxed by your D'Angelo Harrison comparison.  If your answer is we shouldn't have given him a second chance then you learned nothing from that history.  Lavin had the fortitude to suspend him with three options.  He chose to better himself and we all welcomed him back with open arms.  Well, maybe not you.
His fierce competitiveness was very similar to coach Rice.  He arrived at St. John's as an 18 year old true freshman and even after a six month suspension became one of the greatest players in St. John's history.

Ironically in the offseason, he attended a camp led by former NBA player John Lucas to work on his anger management issues. While there, he met and befriended former Rutgers coach Mike Rice, the subject  of this thread.  The two drove to practices together and seeing how Rice, who allegedly made homophobic comments to players, worked on his own issues gave Harrison a new perspective on life.
As a junior, Harrison was named to the First Team All-Big East.

As far as not hiring former head coaches or experienced coaches, the two previous St. John's coaches recognized the importance of having experience around them.
Glen Braica, Chris Casey were and now are head coaches as was Jim Whitesell and coach Dunlap.  Only this boneheaded coach has inexperienced people surrounding him and it shows.

Whatever your point is regarding Mike Rice, your argument is very soft.[/quote]. Disappointed you refer to Mullin as of right now , bring a “ Bonehead Coach .” The team is 15-4. Tied for 3rd in BE standings and in good position to finish well and do well in BE Tournament and NCAA. All hopefully . I think the postings last summer about Rice were split roughly half and half . Until the group that wanted Mike , made it a Crusade and opposers just threw up their hands . Beast and others have articulated many , many reasons why Rice wasn’t hired or, even a consideration . Maybe it’s time to drop the Rice bone . No Pun intended .[/quote]

If Chris Mullin is the one resisting the hiring of a competent and experienced associate head coach then the term "boneheaded" would apply. As in stubborn, refusing to move or to change one's opinion; obstinate; firmly resisting; persistent in doing something.
No one here has proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Mullin is refusing to hire an assistant. Perhaps the term applies to our CYO referee President Bobby G?
As for the "obvious" reasons not to hire Mike Rice, the vast majority of the sports and coaching fraternity support his being given an opportunity. Since when have we, of all employers, become highly selective in hiring basketball coaches?
There has been a quarter century of debating in the various St. John's sports forums about the poor hiring and subsequent firing of coaches. I dare say we are already "infamous" in that aspect of college basketball. The antonym of St. John's is Xavier. We are in no position to preach.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=317140][quote="Class of 72" post=317128][quote="Beast of the East" post=317122][quote="Class of 72" post=317119][quote="Beast of the East" post=317107][quote="Mike Zaun" post=317106][quote="otis" post=317104]Yeepie .... another Mike Rice thread; just what the repetitive posters need to fill the next 10 pages of irrelevant comments to the Zagsblog article.[/quote]

Also repetitive rebuttals ;)[/quote]

yup ;) You're going to get another time out.

I hope you're not as sympathetic to your parish priest who got banished in terms of giving second chances. Then again, we have a bishop here who could play a little (Princeton JV) and probably coach a little too.[/quote]

What does a parish priest have to do with this? The Catholic faith is about second chances. St. John's university has been a pioneer of both first and second chances.
Why is it you are the only poster that stirs shit about time outside and demotions and verbal corporal punishment?
A you a survivor of sister Mary holy water's ruler to knuckles form of discipline? :dry:[/quote]

There are so many reasons on the no side to Rice that it was never a serious consideration.

The priest comment was a tweak - you should know about that. In one of Zaun's iterations he went on and on about atheism.

But you failed to answer the question also. Would we have gone after Harrison if he was dismissed for the disciplinary reasons SJU suspended him for? Lavin exercised compassion, but also considered that Harrison was his best player. Risk/reward scenario.

We weren't going to bring in a head coach type here. Slice thought he was head coach, and I'm sure we had enough of that type of thing on our bench.[/quote]

I'm really flummoxed by your D'Angelo Harrison comparison.  If your answer is we shouldn't have given him a second chance then you learned nothing from that history.  Lavin had the fortitude to suspend him with three options.  He chose to better himself and we all welcomed him back with open arms.  Well, maybe not you.
His fierce competitiveness was very similar to coach Rice.  He arrived at St. John's as an 18 year old true freshman and even after a six month suspension became one of the greatest players in St. John's history.

Ironically in the offseason, he attended a camp led by former NBA player John Lucas to work on his anger management issues. While there, he met and befriended former Rutgers coach Mike Rice, the subject  of this thread.  The two drove to practices together and seeing how Rice, who allegedly made homophobic comments to players, worked on his own issues gave Harrison a new perspective on life.
As a junior, Harrison was named to the First Team All-Big East.

As far as not hiring former head coaches or experienced coaches, the two previous St. John's coaches recognized the importance of having experience around them.
Glen Braica, Chris Casey were and now are head coaches as was Jim Whitesell and coach Dunlap.  Only this boneheaded coach has inexperienced people surrounding him and it shows.

Whatever your point is regarding Mike Rice, your argument is very soft.[/quote]

You are another really tiresome guy. I can only imagine what you are like in person.

D'Angelo Harrison got a second chance. Posters here turned on him after his suspension, and the rest turned on LAvin for suspending him. I was in favor of the second chance.

You are so bored and anxious to type a pile of shit that you don't bother to read. I said had he committed that offense at a competing school and got banished, St. John's would rightfully have avoided the potential headache of offering him a schollie. It would be appropriate and no one likes to add players where the baggage approached the value to a team. That's very different as to say that Lavin should not have given him a second chance.

No other than one of our most respected posters was at the away game where Harrison profanely went off at assistant coaches while Lavin was at his Dad's funeral. The poster messaged me before this blew up that Harrison's prolonged, loud, profane tirade against the coaches was clearly heard by rows of fans close to the bench and he had never heard anything like that before at a pro or college game. It was not Harrison's first profane tirade on the court but it was certainly his worst, and given the circumstance of his head coach being at his Dad's funeral, he chose to be an unruly child disrespecting the coaches authority instead of being respectful for what Lavin was going through at that moment.

Given those facts, had Lavin banished Harrison, he would have been hard pressed to find another D1 program willing to give him a shot. Lavin chose not to send the kid to the dumper, as he rightfully could have, and we all know it worked out. Even as posters here crapped on Lavin for destroying his team's NCAA chances with a season long suspension, Harrison for his part, in the aftermath was incredibly appreciative that LAvin suspended him. It was his path to redemption, and perhaps Lavin's best accomplishment, greater perhaps than 2 NCAA trips.

Zaun compared the non-interest in Rice to Harrison, not me. The school never pursued Rice, even though it was reported here ad nauseum. Not to mention the fact that having a former HC on the bench would cause idiots on here to push for Rice to replace Mullin after every single loss. Who those idiots are, is up to you to guess who. I'll give you a hint: Got a mirror in your house?[/quote]

Beast, I'm not sure what your fixation with Mike Zaun is but perhaps it is the fact that his name reminds you of Mike Rice.

MZ simply asked a question regarding second chances and compared their anger issues.

Being older and wiser you asked a simple question:
"Answer this and you have your answer. Had Harrison been dismissed by another school instead of being a player we suspended, would St. John's have gone after him? Would anyone? Or would he have to redeem himself at a different level?"

Being the good Christian you are you were concerned about redemption.

"would he have to redeem himself at a different level?"

As a firm advocate of demotions to the rookie forum you should see as clearly as Mike Zaun that coach Rice has already redeemed himself at a different level. A level where he is dealing with younger players.  While only months went by with Harrison before his redemption, YEARS have gone by for coach Rice. 

Finally, please spare us old men your outrage at a kid's foul language during a basketball game.  Chris Mullin has broken the record for throwing F bombs at refs. So much so he has a target on his back in games.

Also, demeaning fellow posters has become your trademark along with baiting them as you do with MZ and others that don't share your views.
Relax and discuss, debate or just go masterbate.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=317147][quote="Beast of the East" post=317140][quote="Class of 72" post=317128][quote="Beast of the East" post=317122][quote="Class of 72" post=317119][quote="Beast of the East" post=317107][quote="Mike Zaun" post=317106][quote="otis" post=317104]Yeepie .... another Mike Rice thread; just what the repetitive posters need to fill the next 10 pages of irrelevant comments to the Zagsblog article.[/quote]

Also repetitive rebuttals ;)[/quote]

yup ;) You're going to get another time out.

I hope you're not as sympathetic to your parish priest who got banished in terms of giving second chances. Then again, we have a bishop here who could play a little (Princeton JV) and probably coach a little too.[/quote]

What does a parish priest have to do with this? The Catholic faith is about second chances. St. John's university has been a pioneer of both first and second chances.
Why is it you are the only poster that stirs shit about time outside and demotions and verbal corporal punishment?
A you a survivor of sister Mary holy water's ruler to knuckles form of discipline? :dry:[/quote]

There are so many reasons on the no side to Rice that it was never a serious consideration.

The priest comment was a tweak - you should know about that. In one of Zaun's iterations he went on and on about atheism.

But you failed to answer the question also. Would we have gone after Harrison if he was dismissed for the disciplinary reasons SJU suspended him for? Lavin exercised compassion, but also considered that Harrison was his best player. Risk/reward scenario.

We weren't going to bring in a head coach type here. Slice thought he was head coach, and I'm sure we had enough of that type of thing on our bench.[/quote]

I'm really flummoxed by your D'Angelo Harrison comparison.  If your answer is we shouldn't have given him a second chance then you learned nothing from that history.  Lavin had the fortitude to suspend him with three options.  He chose to better himself and we all welcomed him back with open arms.  Well, maybe not you.
His fierce competitiveness was very similar to coach Rice.  He arrived at St. John's as an 18 year old true freshman and even after a six month suspension became one of the greatest players in St. John's history.

Ironically in the offseason, he attended a camp led by former NBA player John Lucas to work on his anger management issues. While there, he met and befriended former Rutgers coach Mike Rice, the subject  of this thread.  The two drove to practices together and seeing how Rice, who allegedly made homophobic comments to players, worked on his own issues gave Harrison a new perspective on life.
As a junior, Harrison was named to the First Team All-Big East.

As far as not hiring former head coaches or experienced coaches, the two previous St. John's coaches recognized the importance of having experience around them.
Glen Braica, Chris Casey were and now are head coaches as was Jim Whitesell and coach Dunlap.  Only this boneheaded coach has inexperienced people surrounding him and it shows.

Whatever your point is regarding Mike Rice, your argument is very soft.[/quote]

You are another really tiresome guy. I can only imagine what you are like in person.

D'Angelo Harrison got a second chance. Posters here turned on him after his suspension, and the rest turned on LAvin for suspending him. I was in favor of the second chance.

You are so bored and anxious to type a pile of shit that you don't bother to read. I said had he committed that offense at a competing school and got banished, St. John's would rightfully have avoided the potential headache of offering him a schollie. It would be appropriate and no one likes to add players where the baggage approached the value to a team. That's very different as to say that Lavin should not have given him a second chance.

No other than one of our most respected posters was at the away game where Harrison profanely went off at assistant coaches while Lavin was at his Dad's funeral. The poster messaged me before this blew up that Harrison's prolonged, loud, profane tirade against the coaches was clearly heard by rows of fans close to the bench and he had never heard anything like that before at a pro or college game. It was not Harrison's first profane tirade on the court but it was certainly his worst, and given the circumstance of his head coach being at his Dad's funeral, he chose to be an unruly child disrespecting the coaches authority instead of being respectful for what Lavin was going through at that moment.

Given those facts, had Lavin banished Harrison, he would have been hard pressed to find another D1 program willing to give him a shot. Lavin chose not to send the kid to the dumper, as he rightfully could have, and we all know it worked out. Even as posters here crapped on Lavin for destroying his team's NCAA chances with a season long suspension, Harrison for his part, in the aftermath was incredibly appreciative that LAvin suspended him. It was his path to redemption, and perhaps Lavin's best accomplishment, greater perhaps than 2 NCAA trips.

Zaun compared the non-interest in Rice to Harrison, not me. The school never pursued Rice, even though it was reported here ad nauseum. Not to mention the fact that having a former HC on the bench would cause idiots on here to push for Rice to replace Mullin after every single loss. Who those idiots are, is up to you to guess who. I'll give you a hint: Got a mirror in your house?[/quote]

Beast, I'm not sure what your fixation with Mike Zaun is but perhaps it is the fact that his name reminds you of Mike Rice.

MZ simply asked a question regarding second chances and compared their anger issues.

Being older and wiser you asked a simple question:
"Answer this and you have your answer. Had Harrison been dismissed by another school instead of being a player we suspended, would St. John's have gone after him? Would anyone? Or would he have to redeem himself at a different level?"

Being the good Christian you are you were concerned about redemption.

"would he have to redeem himself at a different level?"

As a firm advocate of demotions to the rookie forum you should see as clearly as Mike Zaun that coach Rice has already redeemed himself at a different level. A level where he is dealing with younger players.  While only months went by with Harrison before his redemption, YEARS have gone by for coach Rice. 

Finally, please spare us old men your outrage at a kid's foul language during a basketball game.  Chris Mullin has broken the record for throwing F bombs at refs. So much so he has a target on his back in games.

Also, demeaning fellow posters has become your trademark along with baiting them as you do with MZ and others that don't share your views.
Relax and discuss, debate or just go masterbate.[/quote]

Excellent post except for the last sentence.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=317147][quote="Beast of the East" post=317140][quote="Class of 72" post=317128][quote="Beast of the East" post=317122][quote="Class of 72" post=317119][quote="Beast of the East" post=317107][quote="Mike Zaun" post=317106][quote="otis" post=317104]Yeepie .... another Mike Rice thread; just what the repetitive posters need to fill the next 10 pages of irrelevant comments to the Zagsblog article.[/quote]

Also repetitive rebuttals ;)[/quote]

yup ;) You're going to get another time out.

I hope you're not as sympathetic to your parish priest who got banished in terms of giving second chances. Then again, we have a bishop here who could play a little (Princeton JV) and probably coach a little too.[/quote]

What does a parish priest have to do with this? The Catholic faith is about second chances. St. John's university has been a pioneer of both first and second chances.
Why is it you are the only poster that stirs shit about time outside and demotions and verbal corporal punishment?
A you a survivor of sister Mary holy water's ruler to knuckles form of discipline? :dry:[/quote]

There are so many reasons on the no side to Rice that it was never a serious consideration.

The priest comment was a tweak - you should know about that. In one of Zaun's iterations he went on and on about atheism.

But you failed to answer the question also. Would we have gone after Harrison if he was dismissed for the disciplinary reasons SJU suspended him for? Lavin exercised compassion, but also considered that Harrison was his best player. Risk/reward scenario.

We weren't going to bring in a head coach type here. Slice thought he was head coach, and I'm sure we had enough of that type of thing on our bench.[/quote]

I'm really flummoxed by your D'Angelo Harrison comparison.  If your answer is we shouldn't have given him a second chance then you learned nothing from that history.  Lavin had the fortitude to suspend him with three options.  He chose to better himself and we all welcomed him back with open arms.  Well, maybe not you.
His fierce competitiveness was very similar to coach Rice.  He arrived at St. John's as an 18 year old true freshman and even after a six month suspension became one of the greatest players in St. John's history.

Ironically in the offseason, he attended a camp led by former NBA player John Lucas to work on his anger management issues. While there, he met and befriended former Rutgers coach Mike Rice, the subject  of this thread.  The two drove to practices together and seeing how Rice, who allegedly made homophobic comments to players, worked on his own issues gave Harrison a new perspective on life.
As a junior, Harrison was named to the First Team All-Big East.

As far as not hiring former head coaches or experienced coaches, the two previous St. John's coaches recognized the importance of having experience around them.
Glen Braica, Chris Casey were and now are head coaches as was Jim Whitesell and coach Dunlap.  Only this boneheaded coach has inexperienced people surrounding him and it shows.

Whatever your point is regarding Mike Rice, your argument is very soft.[/quote]

You are another really tiresome guy. I can only imagine what you are like in person.

D'Angelo Harrison got a second chance. Posters here turned on him after his suspension, and the rest turned on LAvin for suspending him. I was in favor of the second chance.

You are so bored and anxious to type a pile of shit that you don't bother to read. I said had he committed that offense at a competing school and got banished, St. John's would rightfully have avoided the potential headache of offering him a schollie. It would be appropriate and no one likes to add players where the baggage approached the value to a team. That's very different as to say that Lavin should not have given him a second chance.

No other than one of our most respected posters was at the away game where Harrison profanely went off at assistant coaches while Lavin was at his Dad's funeral. The poster messaged me before this blew up that Harrison's prolonged, loud, profane tirade against the coaches was clearly heard by rows of fans close to the bench and he had never heard anything like that before at a pro or college game. It was not Harrison's first profane tirade on the court but it was certainly his worst, and given the circumstance of his head coach being at his Dad's funeral, he chose to be an unruly child disrespecting the coaches authority instead of being respectful for what Lavin was going through at that moment.

Given those facts, had Lavin banished Harrison, he would have been hard pressed to find another D1 program willing to give him a shot. Lavin chose not to send the kid to the dumper, as he rightfully could have, and we all know it worked out. Even as posters here crapped on Lavin for destroying his team's NCAA chances with a season long suspension, Harrison for his part, in the aftermath was incredibly appreciative that LAvin suspended him. It was his path to redemption, and perhaps Lavin's best accomplishment, greater perhaps than 2 NCAA trips.

Zaun compared the non-interest in Rice to Harrison, not me. The school never pursued Rice, even though it was reported here ad nauseum. Not to mention the fact that having a former HC on the bench would cause idiots on here to push for Rice to replace Mullin after every single loss. Who those idiots are, is up to you to guess who. I'll give you a hint: Got a mirror in your house?[/quote]

Beast, I'm not sure what your fixation with Mike Zaun is but perhaps it is the fact that his name reminds you of Mike Rice.

MZ simply asked a question regarding second chances and compared their anger issues.

Being older and wiser you asked a simple question:
"Answer this and you have your answer. Had Harrison been dismissed by another school instead of being a player we suspended, would St. John's have gone after him? Would anyone? Or would he have to redeem himself at a different level?"

Being the good Christian you are you were concerned about redemption.

"would he have to redeem himself at a different level?"

As a firm advocate of demotions to the rookie forum you should see as clearly as Mike Zaun that coach Rice has already redeemed himself at a different level. A level where he is dealing with younger players.  While only months went by with Harrison before his redemption, YEARS have gone by for coach Rice. 

Finally, please spare us old men your outrage at a kid's foul language during a basketball game.  Chris Mullin has broken the record for throwing F bombs at refs. So much so he has a target on his back in games.

Also, demeaning fellow posters has become your trademark along with baiting them as you do with MZ and others that don't share your views.
Relax and discuss, debate or just go masterbate.[/quote]

You weave and bob and pivot when you cannot create an adequate response.

I can only imagine what a shitty soldier you were because your weak attempts at draggings others into your arguments are laughable.

Logen is a cantankerous character, but I agree with him a fair amount, minus his pomposity and vitriol. You are a different sort, who STILL can't resist dragging Mullin's family situation into your commentary.

Had Mullin ever said to a ref what Harrison screamed at coaches he would be tossed and suspended and probably fired.

MZ is your protege. He doesn't know better but you should. I would imagine you weren't as much of a dunce at 30,40,50,or 60 as you are now.

Let's face it. Your main problem with Mullin is your perception that he is friends with a guy who terrifies you. It makes you keep a low profile and shroud yourself in anonymity here lest he figure out who you are.

Trying not to be personal with you. Honestly I have no problem with Mike Rice, and stop your silly pokes at Christianity. It has no impact on me, because honestly, I have little respect for what your impressions of Christianity is or isn't.

Quite frankly, if Rice's record was spotless, and it isn't, there isn't any room for 2 head coaches on the same college bench. I think the whole Mike Rice to St John's thing was a fabrication, because there is no evidence that the school ever expressed interest. That's not even to express disinterest, just that Rice was something they never pursued.

You are just upset because I stand up to your anti-Mullin stupidity. Most people don't waste their time with it.
 
Breast wrote:

You weave and bob and pivot when you cannot create an adequate response.
(My response was so basic and direct that only you missed the point)

I can only imagine what a shitty soldier you were.
(You imagine too much. I got drafted. You likely would have been a 4F)

Logen is a cantankerous character but I agree with him a fair amount, minus his pomposity and vitriol.
(Thank God your responses don't reek of pomposity and vitriol)

You can't resist dragging Mullin's family situation into your commentary.
(Where ? But you just did)

Had Mullin ever said to a ref what Harrison screamed at coaches he would be tossed and suspended and probably fired.
(He's gotten tossed and T'd for profanity. Get seats closer to the bench)

MZ is your protege.
(You have called more names in this one post than Mike has ever on redmen)

I would imagine you weren't as much of a dunce at 30,40,50,or 60 as you are now.
(MZ never called anyone a dunce)

Let's face it. Your main problem with Mullin is your perception that he is friends with a guy who terrifies you. It makes you keep a low profile and shroud yourself in anonymity here lest he figure out who you are.
(You got one thing right.....I have perception.  Look up the definition.  Low profile???? I'm here every day. Anonymity? Because of who I am and my name, stalkers like you would be more insulting than you currently are here. Paul, Aubie and TIS know my name and background.  You can ask them.)

Trying not to be personal with you.
(Got it! I'll disregard the your military service comments, comments about my intelligence and age.  You must have spoke in a fit of anger)

Honestly I have no problem with Mike Rice.
(Honestly, all you have written in every single Mike Rice thread are the numerous PROBLEMS you have with him)

Stop top your silly pokes at Christianity.
(You're mistaking me with Austor)

because honestly, I have little respect
(For your fellow fans that's obvious)

I hope this was an adequate response to your bobbing and weaving while you committed offensive fouls against some posters in this thread.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=317170]
Stop top your silly pokes at Christianity.
(You're mistaking me with Austor)

.[/quote]

Hey! Your forgot the U!
 
[attachment=646]EBC902EA-FCF9-483B-95AC-ACB1DDA61D19.jpeg[/attachment]
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=317144]......As for the "obvious" reasons not to hire Mike Rice, the vast majority of the sports and coaching fraternity support his being given an opportunity. Since when have we, of all employers, become highly selective in hiring basketball coaches?[/quote]

Mike Rice was fired what 5- 6 years ago from Rutgers. He did the Anger Management thing, was an influence and helped to DLo. He has successfully coached Prep and High School ball without incident. By all reports, he is a different person now than he was then. So if that is the case and the "vast majority of the sports and coaching fraternity support his being given an opportunity", then why haven't any of them given him one?

I do believe that there are many in the sports and coaching fraternity (and people in general) who think he should be given a second chance somewhere, but just not their program. They don't want to be the one to step out and actually hire him because they do not want the scrutiny and criticism that will come with it from those who feel he doesn't deserve another chance, from reporters, faculty, students and even those who just want the second chance to be somewhere else. They also don't want to risk the chance of it being used against them by others in recruiting (despite the success he has had in Prep and AAU ball you know it will be brought up).

Finally, even if the coach was all for it, their Administration (AD, President, Chancellor or Board of Directors or all of the above) might have a different opinion and the final decision. Even if Chris wanted to bring him on (and I have no idea whether or not he did), I believe the St. John's Administration would have prevented it.
 
Can't we just reprint the endless post on this topic from last spring and avoid this one continuing forever? Sunday can't come soon enough.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=317176]Can't we just reprint the endless post on this topic from last spring and avoid this one continuing forever? Sunday can't come soon enough.[/quote]

The same problem that existed last spring still exists. We can use other names if you hate Rice so much, but that doesn't take care of the real problem. I don't think a guy as smart as Cragg will let the problem go on much longer, though. He'll need to see actual ROI for what I assume is somewhere between $350,000 and $425,000.
 
[quote="SJU85" post=317174][quote="Class of 72" post=317144]......As for the "obvious" reasons not to hire Mike Rice, the vast majority of the sports and coaching fraternity support his being given an opportunity. Since when have we, of all employers, become highly selective in hiring basketball coaches?[/quote]

Mike Rice was fired what 5- 6 years ago from Rutgers. He did the Anger Management thing, was an influence and helped to DLo. He has successfully coached Prep and High School ball without incident. By all reports, he is a different person now than he was then. So if that is the case and the "vast majority of the sports and coaching fraternity support his being given an opportunity", then why haven't any of them given him one?

I do believe that there are many in the sports and coaching fraternity (and people in general) who think he should be given a second chance somewhere, but just not their program. They don't want to be the one to step out and actually hire him because they do not want the scrutiny and criticism that will come with it from those who feel he doesn't deserve another chance, from reporters, faculty, students and even those who just want the second chance to be somewhere else. They also don't want to risk the chance of it being used against them by others in recruiting (despite the success he has had in Prep and AAU ball you know it will be brought up).

Finally, even if the coach was all for it, their Administration (AD, President, Chancellor or Board of Directors or all of the above) might have a different opinion and the final decision. Even if Chris wanted to bring him on (and I have no idea whether or not he did), I believe the St. John's Administration would have prevented it.[/quote]

All your points are valid. The honorable OTIS revealed that it was the St. John's Administration that prevented it. Now, using elementary formal logic as thought to me by a Jesuit professor, if all premises are true, the terms are clear, and the rules of deductive logic are followed, then the conclusion reached is necessarily true. Ergo, for the St. John's Administration to have prevented it from happening means his last formal visit to the St. John's hierarchy and which was reported by two journalists that follow the program, the truth to a Mullin-Rice mutual interest is indisputable.
Case closed.
Word of advice to Paultzman - don't start any more Mike Rice threads. ;)

PS: I think Mullin has more balls than most of those you think shy away from Mike Rice.

Also, when you say "they do not want the scrutiny and criticism that will come with it from those who feel he doesn't deserve another chance", Texas Tech had the balls to hire Bobby Knight. At Texas Tech, the Red Raiders won 126 games, an average of 21 wins per season. Had Rice been winning games at Rutgers like Knight did at Indiana I have no doubt a major program would have employed him years ago.
 
Last edited:
I don't hate Rice at all, just repetition, and have no opinion as to whether he'd be a good addition. As I've said many times (my repetition is ok I guess), Chris is entitled to choose his own staff, as any exec is - but he has to live with and own the results. That's why this year is key. But the results are not in.
 
Last edited:
[quote="Class of 72" post=317178][quote="SJU85" post=317174][quote="Class of 72" post=317144]......As for the "obvious" reasons not to hire Mike Rice, the vast majority of the sports and coaching fraternity support his being given an opportunity. Since when have we, of all employers, become highly selective in hiring basketball coaches?[/quote]

Mike Rice was fired what 5- 6 years ago from Rutgers. He did the Anger Management thing, was an influence and helped to DLo. He has successfully coached Prep and High School ball without incident. By all reports, he is a different person now than he was then. So if that is the case and the "vast majority of the sports and coaching fraternity support his being given an opportunity", then why haven't any of them given him one?

I do believe that there are many in the sports and coaching fraternity (and people in general) who think he should be given a second chance somewhere, but just not their program. They don't want to be the one to step out and actually hire him because they do not want the scrutiny and criticism that will come with it from those who feel he doesn't deserve another chance, from reporters, faculty, students and even those who just want the second chance to be somewhere else. They also don't want to risk the chance of it being used against them by others in recruiting (despite the success he has had in Prep and AAU ball you know it will be brought up).

Finally, even if the coach was all for it, their Administration (AD, President, Chancellor or Board of Directors or all of the above) might have a different opinion and the final decision. Even if Chris wanted to bring him on (and I have no idea whether or not he did), I believe the St. John's Administration would have prevented it.[/quote]

All your points are valid. The honorable OTIS revealed that it was the St. John's Administration that prevented it. Now, using elementary formal logic as thought to me by a Jesuit professor, if all premises are true, the terms are clear, and the rules of deductive logic are followed, then the conclusion reached is necessarily true. Ergo, for the St. John's Administration to have prevented it from happening means his last formal visit to the St. John's hierarchy and which was reported by two journalists that follow the program, the truth to a Mullin-Rice mutual interest is indisputable.
Case closed.
Word of advice to Paultzman - don't start any more Mike Rice threads. ;)[/quote]

Rampant falsehoods - so much for indisputable.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=317182][quote="Class of 72" post=317178][quote="SJU85" post=317174][quote="Class of 72" post=317144]......As for the "obvious" reasons not to hire Mike Rice, the vast majority of the sports and coaching fraternity support his being given an opportunity. Since when have we, of all employers, become highly selective in hiring basketball coaches?[/quote]

Mike Rice was fired what 5- 6 years ago from Rutgers. He did the Anger Management thing, was an influence and helped to DLo. He has successfully coached Prep and High School ball without incident. By all reports, he is a different person now than he was then. So if that is the case and the "vast majority of the sports and coaching fraternity support his being given an opportunity", then why haven't any of them given him one?

I do believe that there are many in the sports and coaching fraternity (and people in general) who think he should be given a second chance somewhere, but just not their program. They don't want to be the one to step out and actually hire him because they do not want the scrutiny and criticism that will come with it from those who feel he doesn't deserve another chance, from reporters, faculty, students and even those who just want the second chance to be somewhere else. They also don't want to risk the chance of it being used against them by others in recruiting (despite the success he has had in Prep and AAU ball you know it will be brought up).

Finally, even if the coach was all for it, their Administration (AD, President, Chancellor or Board of Directors or all of the above) might have a different opinion and the final decision. Even if Chris wanted to bring him on (and I have no idea whether or not he did), I believe the St. John's Administration would have prevented it.[/quote]

All your points are valid. The honorable OTIS revealed that it was the St. John's Administration that prevented it. Now, using elementary formal logic as thought to me by a Jesuit professor, if all premises are true, the terms are clear, and the rules of deductive logic are followed, then the conclusion reached is necessarily true. Ergo, for the St. John's Administration to have prevented it from happening means his last formal visit to the St. John's hierarchy and which was reported by two journalists that follow the program, the truth to a Mullin-Rice mutual interest is indisputable.
Case closed.
Word of advice to Paultzman - don't start any more Mike Rice threads. ;)[/quote]

Rampant falsehoods - so much for indisputable.[/quote]

So Zach Braziller, Jeff Borzello and the honorable OTIS were liars. I defer to OTIS regarding your claim of rampant fake news.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=317184][quote="Beast of the East" post=317182][quote="Class of 72" post=317178][quote="SJU85" post=317174][quote="Class of 72" post=317144]......As for the "obvious" reasons not to hire Mike Rice, the vast majority of the sports and coaching fraternity support his being given an opportunity. Since when have we, of all employers, become highly selective in hiring basketball coaches?[/quote]

Mike Rice was fired what 5- 6 years ago from Rutgers. He did the Anger Management thing, was an influence and helped to DLo. He has successfully coached Prep and High School ball without incident. By all reports, he is a different person now than he was then. So if that is the case and the "vast majority of the sports and coaching fraternity support his being given an opportunity", then why haven't any of them given him one?

I do believe that there are many in the sports and coaching fraternity (and people in general) who think he should be given a second chance somewhere, but just not their program. They don't want to be the one to step out and actually hire him because they do not want the scrutiny and criticism that will come with it from those who feel he doesn't deserve another chance, from reporters, faculty, students and even those who just want the second chance to be somewhere else. They also don't want to risk the chance of it being used against them by others in recruiting (despite the success he has had in Prep and AAU ball you know it will be brought up).

Finally, even if the coach was all for it, their Administration (AD, President, Chancellor or Board of Directors or all of the above) might have a different opinion and the final decision. Even if Chris wanted to bring him on (and I have no idea whether or not he did), I believe the St. John's Administration would have prevented it.[/quote]

All your points are valid. The honorable OTIS revealed that it was the St. John's Administration that prevented it. Now, using elementary formal logic as thought to me by a Jesuit professor, if all premises are true, the terms are clear, and the rules of deductive logic are followed, then the conclusion reached is necessarily true. Ergo, for the St. John's Administration to have prevented it from happening means his last formal visit to the St. John's hierarchy and which was reported by two journalists that follow the program, the truth to a Mullin-Rice mutual interest is indisputable.
Case closed.
Word of advice to Paultzman - don't start any more Mike Rice threads. ;)[/quote]

Rampant falsehoods - so much for indisputable.[/quote]

So Zach Braziller, Jeff Borzello and the honorable OTIS were liars. I defer to OTIS regarding your claim of rampant fake news.[/quote]

All I can tell you with certainty is that Rice was never going to be coming to St. John's.

You see, this is what is unrefined about you. Otis is a respectable guy - we've chatted in privates, and he's pretty balanced in everything he says. To equate the word falsehood with liar is misappropriating the word. They are not equivalent. A lot of people say a lot of things, and reporters take their cues from people who sometimes say things out of school who have loose lips and like to proclaim more than they actually know.

Sometimes loose lips sink ships. Sometimes things are actually in the works, and sometimes not.

Everyone loves to leak info they heard. Sometimes sources are just incorrect.

Rice is a head coach type. Period. To restore his career at his age, he should take a job anywhere. Cluess had a top 5 national HS program, and he went to Suffolk CC, where he went to a national final 4, and then to Post, where he killed it.

If even community colleges are backing off Rice, his road to redemption will be harder than imagined. But it won't be here, never would be here, and likely will not happen at a D1 school. He may deserve a second chance, but in this culture it may be hard for him to find it without starting at square one.

Regarding Zaun - I like him personally. He's not a bad guy at all. He really wants to be liked, and I think he knows he gets carried away. If he meets me at MSG I'll buy him a beer, if at CA a wet pretzel and a warm ice tea. He just doesn't like when he gets called on his massive repetition of largely your anti-Mullin stuff which he repeats as gospel.
But to repeat I kind of like him. He's kind of like one of your best friends little brother who is a good kid but annoys the shit out of everyone at the playground. Harmless, a good guy, but annoying all the same. Largely likeable.
 
Last edited:
thread locked.

knock off the personal attacks and calling out and critiquing other members. You are disrespecting every member of this site who doesn't want to read your nonsense and posturing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top