Lavin-Part 2-balanced view

J

johnnycomelately

Member
Say what you want about Lavin's X and O acumen and in game coaching. I'd rather have this problem than trying to win with mid level Division 1 talent like we were during the previous regime(s). That's not a critique of those players, but night in and night out for a long period of time it was an uphill battle. His recruiting body of work has been solid. I'll admit to coming away wanting more, as did my 7 and 4 year old, who won't be going to the Garden tonight Regarding the package deal someone referred to earlier, remember the package deal of David Russell and George Garrison from Bellport, LI in 1979? Dating myself here.
 
That is a balanced view, and fair enough.

But why does it have to be one or the other? If we don't have Lavin, admittedly an A+ recruiter, does that automatically mean we have Norm?
There is a much broader ranger of options than that. Even if another coach was slightly less successful as a recruiter, but a somewhat better in-game and practice coach... is it possible that in total he might win more? I think it is.

And for all of those who think that unless we can grab a Billy Donovan, then it's not worth getting rid of Lavin: (which is a reasonable opinion)

Where were Jay Wright, Sean Miller, Josh Pastner, Brad Stevens etc before their current jobs? (before Butler in Stevens' case)
They were all assistants or head coaches at a smaller school. You take for granted that Jay Wright is who he is now - but we all know we had the chance to hire him, and how that worked out. It's not about hiring a small school or assistant coach - it's about hiring the right coach.
 
That is a balanced view, and fair enough.

But why does it have to be one or the other? If we don't have Lavin, admittedly an A+ recruiter, does that automatically mean we have Norm?
There is a much broader ranger of options than that. Even if another coach was slightly less successful as a recruiter, but a somewhat better in-game and practice coach... is it possible that in total he might win more? I think it is.

And for all of those who think that unless we can grab a Billy Donovan, then it's not worth getting rid of Lavin: (which is a reasonable opinion)

Where were Jay Wright, Sean Miller, Josh Pastner, Brad Stevens etc before their current jobs? (before Butler in Stevens' case)
They were all assistants or head coaches at a smaller school. You take for granted that Jay Wright is who he is now - but we all know we had the chance to hire him, and how that worked out. It's not about hiring a small school or assistant coach - it's about hiring the right coach.
Click to expand...

Besides Antigua who is your right coach. I'm on the fence on this whole keep or get rid of business.
 
On another note did you guys read Indiana boosters want to buyout Crean and bring in Woodson when he gets canned by Knicks. Those folks are crazier then the people on here.
 
If I want any assistant coach I want Andre Lafleur from Providence. (Completely biased, he's practically family) but he recruits very, very well and understands the x, o's of the game. He has ties to NYC as he recruited Kemba to Uconn and later got credited with developing Kemba's game.


With that said I don't really have a problem with Lavin at all and think that we are moving in a positive direction under him, granted it is slower than all of us expected, we have had to deal with some obstacles we didn't quite expect
 
I think Lavin has been a wonderful ambassador for the University, he has been a great recruiter, yes short commings, maybe when it comes to X's and O's. Perhaps knowing that our first priority should be to hire a solid tactician. Spending a few extra bucks for that kind of acquisition that I think that is far more prudent then all the talk of changing the head coach and all that it portends.
 
That is a balanced view, and fair enough.

But why does it have to be one or the other? If we don't have Lavin, admittedly an A+ recruiter, does that automatically mean we have Norm?
There is a much broader ranger of options than that. Even if another coach was slightly less successful as a recruiter, but a somewhat better in-game and practice coach... is it possible that in total he might win more? I think it is.

And for all of those who think that unless we can grab a Billy Donovan, then it's not worth getting rid of Lavin: (which is a reasonable opinion)

Where were Jay Wright, Sean Miller, Josh Pastner, Brad Stevens etc before their current jobs? (before Butler in Stevens' case)
They were all assistants or head coaches at a smaller school. You take for granted that Jay Wright is who he is now - but we all know we had the chance to hire him, and how that worked out. It's not about hiring a small school or assistant coach - it's about hiring the right coach.
Click to expand...

Besides Antigua who is your right coach. I'm on the fence on this whole keep or get rid of business.
Click to expand...

I mention Orlando A somewhat with tongue in cheek. Because he probably isn't a possibility. But I think years from now we could look back and say he would've been perfect for this situation. Ala Pitino, Donovan, Jay Wright.

In all honesty I think it has to start with Maisello and Hurley and go from there. Also, people aren't going to like these other names but I think you have to at least call Hopkins and Wojo as well.
 
That is a balanced view, and fair enough.

But why does it have to be one or the other? If we don't have Lavin, admittedly an A+ recruiter, does that automatically mean we have Norm?
There is a much broader ranger of options than that. Even if another coach was slightly less successful as a recruiter, but a somewhat better in-game and practice coach... is it possible that in total he might win more? I think it is.

And for all of those who think that unless we can grab a Billy Donovan, then it's not worth getting rid of Lavin: (which is a reasonable opinion)

Where were Jay Wright, Sean Miller, Josh Pastner, Brad Stevens etc before their current jobs? (before Butler in Stevens' case)
They were all assistants or head coaches at a smaller school. You take for granted that Jay Wright is who he is now - but we all know we had the chance to hire him, and how that worked out. It's not about hiring a small school or assistant coach - it's about hiring the right coach.
Click to expand...

Besides Antigua who is your right coach. I'm on the fence on this whole keep or get rid of business.
Click to expand...

I mention Orlando A somewhat with tongue in cheek. Because he probably isn't a possibility. But I think years from now we could look back and say he would've been perfect for this situation. Ala Pitino, Donovan, Jay Wright.

In all honesty I think it has to start with Maisello and Hurley and go from there. Also, people aren't going to like these other names but I think you have to at least call Hopkins and Wojo as well.
Click to expand...


I can almost get Masiello but not Hurley.
 
I like Bobby Hurley. This guy might just be the real local gem with a big future ahead. He has both elite college point guard credibility as well as good NJ connections (an understatement). He also has the celebrity factor. He could get an aspiring pro pg like Briscoe despite coming in late. And other elite kids would follow.

Massileo seems like a respectable prospect but I have doubts about his ability to recruit elite kids on national level. I have more confidence in Hurleys recruiting appeal.
 
St. John's position is a little like managing the New York Yankees. You get a short leash before fans getting really impatient. Except here there isn't a lot of fan support to begin with. Most guys with an incredibly high upward trajectory might NOT want to come here.
 
St. John's position is a little like managing the New York Yankees. You get a short leash before fans getting really impatient. Except here there isn't a lot of fan support to begin with. Most guys with an incredibly high upward trajectory might NOT want to come here.
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Yankees? I was thinking more along the lines of CVS. :p
 
I wouldn't underestimate the difficulty of attracting big time recruits to come to St. John's. I mean, what are the selling points of the program? I'm not trying to be negative or bash anything, but let's be realistic and call it like it is. 20 years ago was a lot different.
 
I wouldn't underestimate the difficulty of attracting big time recruits to come to St. John's. I mean, what are the selling points of the program? I'm not trying to be negative or bash anything, but let's be realistic and call it like it is. 20 years ago was a lot different.
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Reasons 1, 2, and 3 why basketball recruits pick a college = will get them to the NBA.

They want the coach, program, exposure, and playing time to get to the NBA, and fast.


Caveat - I am sure for a small percentage of kids other things matter, but I have to believe the above is the norm.
 
St. John's position is a little like managing the New York Yankees. You get a short leash before fans getting really impatient. Except here there isn't a lot of fan support to begin with. Most guys with an incredibly high upward trajectory might NOT want to come here.
Click to expand...

Yankees? I was thinking more along the lines of CVS. :p
Click to expand...

You know, you read my posts with such focus, I'm really impressed that I have such a strong admirer.
 
That is a balanced view, and fair enough.

But why does it have to be one or the other? If we don't have Lavin, admittedly an A+ recruiter, does that automatically mean we have Norm?
There is a much broader ranger of options than that. Even if another coach was slightly less successful as a recruiter, but a somewhat better in-game and practice coach... is it possible that in total he might win more? I think it is.

And for all of those who think that unless we can grab a Billy Donovan, then it's not worth getting rid of Lavin: (which is a reasonable opinion)

Where were Jay Wright, Sean Miller, Josh Pastner, Brad Stevens etc before their current jobs? (before Butler in Stevens' case)
They were all assistants or head coaches at a smaller school. You take for granted that Jay Wright is who he is now - but we all know we had the chance to hire him, and how that worked out. It's not about hiring a small school or assistant coach - it's about hiring the right coach.
Click to expand...

There is no doubt that a good mid major coach could do a great job here. John Belein is another guy who took over Michigan when they were down after Amaker got fired in 2007. He worked his way up from a community college. Already went to the final 4. Fran McCaffery has had early success at Iowa as well. I would not go with an assistant who's never run a program though. That said, as painful as it is to say it, I think starting over is a bad idea.
 
In all honesty I think it has to start with Maisello and Hurley and go from there. Also, people aren't going to like these other names but I think you have to at least call Hopkins and Wojo as well.
Click to expand...

i am hearing Massielo will be the next coach at BC.
You mean Danny, not Bobby?
 
In all honesty I think it has to start with Maisello and Hurley and go from there. Also, people aren't going to like these other names but I think you have to at least call Hopkins and Wojo as well.
Click to expand...

i am hearing Massielo will be the next coach at BC.
You mean Danny, not Bobby?
Click to expand...

Mas?
If BC cans Donohue I see Tom Moore
 
In all honesty I think it has to start with Maisello and Hurley and go from there. Also, people aren't going to like these other names but I think you have to at least call Hopkins and Wojo as well.
Click to expand...

i am hearing Massielo will be the next coach at BC.
You mean Danny, not Bobby?
Click to expand...

Mas?
If BC cans Donohue I see Tom Moore
Click to expand...

Just throwing out names of two BC grads, Bruce Pearl and Tim O'Shea, solid coach at Bryant. Jesuits forgive, so would Pearl get a shot? Lol
 
That is a balanced view, and fair enough.

But why does it have to be one or the other? If we don't have Lavin, admittedly an A+ recruiter, does that automatically mean we have Norm?
There is a much broader ranger of options than that. Even if another coach was slightly less successful as a recruiter, but a somewhat better in-game and practice coach... is it possible that in total he might win more? I think it is.

And for all of those who think that unless we can grab a Billy Donovan, then it's not worth getting rid of Lavin: (which is a reasonable opinion)

Where were Jay Wright, Sean Miller, Josh Pastner, Brad Stevens etc before their current jobs? (before Butler in Stevens' case)
They were all assistants or head coaches at a smaller school. You take for granted that Jay Wright is who he is now - but we all know we had the chance to hire him, and how that worked out. It's not about hiring a small school or assistant coach - it's about hiring the right coach.
Click to expand...

Orlando is a solid candidate. But I see him getting a shot at a state school in a major conference maybe even SEC. I like him after learning about his background and relationship with players
 
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