Lavin or ...

He's not my first choice necessarily, but is there any chance Tom Crean would come here if Indiana fires him to get Archie (or someone else)?
 
Bobby Hurley has how many years of head coaching experience? has recruited how many top 50 kids? won how many NCAA tourney games? are you freaking kidding me...He couldn't get an ass coach job at Duke. He is coaching in frozen Buffalo for a reason. Why hasn't K gotten him a job? Why did K take Capel back over Hurley?

And exactly how has his father treated the program through the years?
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If your measuring stick for SUNY Buffalo is top 50 players and NCAA wins, you should leave yourself out of any decision.

SUNY Buffalo was a joke of program that had never made a single trip to the NCAA tournament. Bobby, within days of being hired, signed a guard that should be playing in the Big East and the 2014-2015 MAC Player of the Year. He followed it up by signing another Big East caliber guard in 2014 and this year signed a former top 75 (ranked as high as #39--so there is your top 50) recruit and a JUCO SF we could sure use here.

When he calls recruits, he said they don't believe Buffalo is D-1 at first. They wouldn't consider Buffalo if not for him. Buffalo won 14 games the year before Bobby took over and he signed more talent in the first month of taking the job than he inherited. I didn't think he'd do this well this quickly...I really didn't. Next year they are going to be insane.
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Marillac with all due respect and believe me I have been reading you on this site for a long time, and I usually find common ground with you. I just don't see what you are saying. Why is it Bobby had to take the hard way to a hc position? Why wasn't he taken over Capel on coach K staff? why did he have to join his brother's staff? why didn't he get a higher profile ass. coach job? don't those questions bother you? If they don't then the lowly Buffalo was the best he could do? That scares the crap out of me. Sure he has two guys that may or may not be able to play in the big east. He needs to be sitting in living rooms against some really skilled coaches. I don't think Hey I am Bobby Hurley and I played for Duke, oh and I turned around SUNY Buffalo is going to turn a kids head.

But the funniest thing thus far is people here are complaining about Lavin and want to replace him with someone that is a very suspect unknown...

Archie Miller would Never, Ever come here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Why do you keep perpetuating this narrative that Archie Miller is an unknown? He's anything but an unknown. He played point guard in the ACC at N.C. State. He immediately went into coaching after his playing career was over, and was on his brother's staff at Arizona before taking over at Dayton. His brother btw, runs one of the best programs in America at Arizona.

In 4 seasons at Dayton, his record is 90-47 (.657), including three 20 win seasons. His NCAA Tournament record is 5-2, including a trip to the Elite 8 last year. He had six or seven scholarship players this season and still won two NCAA Tournament games. How did Lavin do with a short bench this year? Or better yet, how many NCAA wins does Lavin have in the same time Miller has been the head coach at Dayton?

He's 36 years old and has star head coach written all over him IMO. If we don't hire him, someone else will and we will rue the day. You're allowed to support Lavin all you want, but put down the kool-aid and stop knocking guys like Miller or Bobby Hurley with these ridiculous statements. No one's buying it.
 
For everyone that is saying that either Hurley or Maisello or another midmajor coach would be an "unknown", you are certainly right.
There are not going to be any proven commodities available. Donovan, Izzo, Self are not options for us.

But my issue with writing the midmajor HCs off, is that I don't know that Lavin will recruit like he did in 2011 going forward. To me, that is an unknown, and if you're being fair, you shouldn't treat that as a concrete fact, because his recruiting hasn't been the same lately.
 
I agree with you guys that Archie Miller would be a great hire. The chances of him failing are slim and he has a chance to be as good, or close to, what Sean has become. Long run, it would probably be in St John's best interest to get rid of Lavin and hire Archie. His ceiling is higher, imo. That being said, I don't think there is a chance in hell that he comes here.

On the other hand, to compare Bobby Hurley to Archie Miller, at this point, is ludicrous. One is a near can't miss, while the other is a big question mark.
 
Also if any of you guys read the JJ Jungle Dave who has been in the hoops biz since graduating college knows Archie Miller and asked him if he would come to SJU and he said no
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How much did Jungle Dave offer Archie? When Pitino coached at Kentucky do you think he said he would love to coach at Louisville. Sometimes things have to play out.
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He didn't leave Kentucky for Louisville he went to the celts..huge difference..
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But he is coaching at Louisville and I am sure he didn't express his love for Louisville while at Kentucky. My point being you are not going to express interest in other coaching jobs while in your current position. What was Archie going to say, I'd love to leave Dayton for St. John's. Also other ethical coaches do not comment about other positions that are not vacant. If we have a vacant position and we make an offer and he says no than I will believe it. Until then it doesn't matter. It is just another wild rumor.
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"What was Archie going to say, I'd love to leave Dayton for St. John's. Also other ethical coaches do not comment about other positions that are not vacant."

Exactly, how many times in pro sports you hear other coaches saying "no I don't want it.", then after the season is over he took the job.
I'd like for SJU to ask Archie. Nothing to lose by asking.
 
Bobby Hurley has how many years of head coaching experience? has recruited how many top 50 kids? won how many NCAA tourney games? are you freaking kidding me...He couldn't get an ass coach job at Duke. He is coaching in frozen Buffalo for a reason. Why hasn't K gotten him a job? Why did K take Capel back over Hurley?

And exactly how has his father treated the program through the years?
Click to expand...

If your measuring stick for SUNY Buffalo is top 50 players and NCAA wins, you should leave yourself out of any decision.

SUNY Buffalo was a joke of program that had never made a single trip to the NCAA tournament. Bobby, within days of being hired, signed a guard that should be playing in the Big East and the 2014-2015 MAC Player of the Year. He followed it up by signing another Big East caliber guard in 2014 and this year signed a former top 75 (ranked as high as #39--so there is your top 50) recruit and a JUCO SF we could sure use here.

When he calls recruits, he said they don't believe Buffalo is D-1 at first. They wouldn't consider Buffalo if not for him. Buffalo won 14 games the year before Bobby took over and he signed more talent in the first month of taking the job than he inherited. I didn't think he'd do this well this quickly...I really didn't. Next year they are going to be insane.
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Marillac with all due respect and believe me I have been reading you on this site for a long time, and I usually find common ground with you. I just don't see what you are saying. Why is it Bobby had to take the hard way to a hc position? Why wasn't he taken over Capel on coach K staff? why did he have to join his brother's staff? why didn't he get a higher profile ass. coach job? don't those questions bother you? If they don't then the lowly Buffalo was the best he could do? That scares the crap out of me. Sure he has two guys that may or may not be able to play in the big east. He needs to be sitting in living rooms against some really skilled coaches. I don't think Hey I am Bobby Hurley and I played for Duke, oh and I turned around SUNY Buffalo is going to turn a kids head.

But the funniest thing thus far is people here are complaining about Lavin and want to replace him with someone that is a very suspect unknown...

Archie Miller would Never, Ever come here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Why do you keep perpetuating this narrative that Archie Miller is an unknown? He's anything but an unknown. He played point guard in the ACC at N.C. State. He immediately went into coaching after his playing career was over, and was on his brother's staff at Arizona before taking over at Dayton. His brother btw, runs one of the best programs in America at Arizona.

In 4 seasons at Dayton, his record is 90-47 (.657), including three 20 win seasons. His NCAA Tournament record is 5-2, including a trip to the Elite 8 last year. He had six or seven scholarship players this season and still won two NCAA Tournament games. How did Lavin do with a short bench this year? Or better yet, how many NCAA wins does Lavin have in the same time Miller has been the head coach at Dayton?

He's 36 years old and has star head coach written all over him IMO. If we don't hire him, someone else will and we will rue the day. You're allowed to support Lavin all you want, but put down the kool-aid and stop knocking guys like Miller or Bobby Hurley with these ridiculous statements. No one's buying it.
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I never said Archie is unknown. I am very familiar with Archie as he did many a camp here, and he would be a great hire. However he would have no interest in the STJ job. He has a dream job, and its not our school, and either he gets that job this year, or next.
 
I agree with you guys that Archie Miller would be a great hire. The chances of him failing are slim and he has a chance to be as good, or close to, what Sean has become. Long run, it would probably be in St John's best interest to get rid of Lavin and hire Archie. His ceiling is higher, imo. That being said, I don't think there is a chance in hell that he comes here.

On the other hand, to compare Bobby Hurley to Archie Miller, at this point, is ludicrous. One is a near can't miss, while the other is a big question mark.
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I agree Miller wouldn't come here. We need to find the next Miller before he has the success Miller has already shown. Is Hurley that guy? I don't know but he's probably a better risk than another re-tread coach who failed somewhere else. We've always been a tough sell. No one looks at us as their dream job and the top guys wouldn't leave their programs for ours. Even if we hit big on an up an comer, the question becomes will they just leave us for a bigger gig after they win a little bit? We are stuck in the unproven or flawed category. Would be great to break out of it but I'm not confident our AD can deliver.
 
I agree with you guys that Archie Miller would be a great hire. The chances of him failing are slim and he has a chance to be as good, or close to, what Sean has become. Long run, it would probably be in St John's best interest to get rid of Lavin and hire Archie. His ceiling is higher, imo. That being said, I don't think there is a chance in hell that he comes here.

On the other hand, to compare Bobby Hurley to Archie Miller, at this point, is ludicrous. One is a near can't miss, while the other is a big question mark.
Click to expand...

I agree Miller wouldn't come here. We need to find the next Miller before he has the success Miller has already shown. Is Hurley that guy? I don't know but he's probably a better risk than another re-tread coach who failed somewhere else. We've always been a tough sell. No one looks at us as their dream job and the top guys wouldn't leave their programs for ours. Even if we hit big on an up an comer, the question becomes will they just leave us for a bigger gig after they win a little bit? We are stuck in the unproven or flawed category. Would be great to break out of it but I'm not confident our AD can deliver.
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I don't know why you are so confident Miller would not come. He is currently coaching Dayton, but I am sure he aspires to coach at a bigger school than that. We are not Carolina or Kentucky, but we are in the Big East and if you can win in NYC you will be a hero. If Lavin is gone, and I am not sure that will happen, I would make a huge push for Miller. If you look for the next Miller you just might find the next Norm Roberts. Make a big move or keep Lavin.
 
What is Miller's dream school, though? Pitt? N.C. State? I don't think either of them open. He's coached at ASU, UA, and Ohio St. Any of them opening? Big big schools will have a line of candidates a mile long, so hanging on for huge-name school is risky unless he has a Dayton or _____ mentality.
 
What is Miller's dream school, though? Pitt? N.C. State? I don't think either of them open. He's coached at ASU, UA, and Ohio St. Any of them opening? Big big schools will have a line of candidates a mile long, so hanging on for huge-name school is risky unless he has a Dayton or _____ mentality.
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If he has a good life going in Dayton why not wait for the OSU job.
 
What is Miller's dream school, though? Pitt? N.C. State? I don't think either of them open. He's coached at ASU, UA, and Ohio St. Any of them opening? Big big schools will have a line of candidates a mile long, so hanging on for huge-name school is risky unless he has a Dayton or _____ mentality.
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I have now way of knowing whether Miller would be interested or not but he has a good gig where he is that draws well and supports him. He might just be happy where he is. I think I read on a thread here (might be in one of the 193 pages on the "Next Coach" thread) that he "only" makes $400K so maybe he is looking for a bigger pay day. I don't know, but as I stated elsewhere, if we are going to make a change, you better be sure whomever you are targeting is better than what we have now and will accept the job without this being a long drawn out process where we wind up settling for a lesser person. No nationwide searches or offers to candidates who are out of reach who will turn you down and make you look like a desperate Program grasping at straws.
 
What is Miller's dream school, though? Pitt? N.C. State? I don't think either of them open. He's coached at ASU, UA, and Ohio St. Any of them opening? Big big schools will have a line of candidates a mile long, so hanging on for huge-name school is risky unless he has a Dayton or _____ mentality.
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If he has a good life going in Dayton why not wait for the OSU job.
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Matta just looks old, but he's young enough to be there another 25 years.
 
Also if any of you guys read the JJ Jungle Dave who has been in the hoops biz since graduating college knows Archie Miller and asked him if he would come to SJU and he said no
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He also talked to every prep player in the country who all told him they dont care if coaches come to their games or not. He does get around.
 
What is Miller's dream school, though? Pitt? N.C. State? I don't think either of them open. He's coached at ASU, UA, and Ohio St. Any of them opening? Big big schools will have a line of candidates a mile long, so hanging on for huge-name school is risky unless he has a Dayton or _____ mentality.
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If he has a good life going in Dayton why not wait for the OSU job.
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Matta just looks old, but he's young enough to be there another 25 years.
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Matta lives with debilitating pain every day. He may not be there very long. I understand they are close to each other. If he does not wind up in that job he will follow a similar path from the A 10 to one of the football conferences. Just my opinion
 
What is Miller's dream school, though? Pitt? N.C. State? I don't think either of them open. He's coached at ASU, UA, and Ohio St. Any of them opening? Big big schools will have a line of candidates a mile long, so hanging on for huge-name school is risky unless he has a Dayton or _____ mentality.
Click to expand...

If he has a good life going in Dayton why not wait for the OSU job.
Click to expand...

Matta just looks old, but he's young enough to be there another 25 years.
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Matta lives with debilitating pain every day. He may not be there very long. I understand they are close to each other. If he does not wind up in that job he will follow a similar path from the A 10 to one of the football conferences. Just my opinion
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I could live with five years of Arch before he leaves for richer pastures. I just want someone who can actually coach.
 
For everyone that is saying that either Hurley or Maisello or another midmajor coach would be an "unknown", you are certainly right.
There are not going to be any proven commodities available. Donovan, Izzo, Self are not options for us.

But my issue with writing the midmajor HCs off, is that I don't know that Lavin will recruit like he did in 2011 going forward. To me, that is an unknown, and if you're being fair, you shouldn't treat that as a concrete fact, because his recruiting hasn't been the same lately.
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Agree...but more unknow are Masiello and Cluess ability to recruit big time...neither has any personna at this level
 
For everyone that is saying that either Hurley or Maisello or another midmajor coach would be an "unknown", you are certainly right.
There are not going to be any proven commodities available. Donovan, Izzo, Self are not options for us.

But my issue with writing the midmajor HCs off, is that I don't know that Lavin will recruit like he did in 2011 going forward. To me, that is an unknown, and if you're being fair, you shouldn't treat that as a concrete fact, because his recruiting hasn't been the same lately.
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Agree...but more unknow are Masiello and Cluess ability to recruit big time...neither has any personna at this level
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Some bang up job recruiting wise these last two years
 
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