Is it just basketball

S

SJUFan85/89

Active member
I know we all talk here about basketball but what about the other sports as well. What I mean the basketball program is obviously the face of the athletic department. However has the entire department crumbled. Think back. St. John’s baseball with John Franco and Frank Viola. Football Todd Jamison. Fencing nationally ranked every year. Soccer NCAA champions. All winter the school hosted CYO swim meets and every good swimmer in the metro area wanted to come to St John’s Track was top twenty in NCAA with Tin Hamlon and Joe Snieder. Now there is no swim team. No men’s track team. Every good athlete in the metro area no matter the sport aspired to come to St John’s. I don’t get that sense anymore. So is the basketball team just the face of a school that has list it’s sports luster
 
SJUFan85/89 said:
I know we all talk here about basketball but what about the other sports as well. What I mean the basketball program is obviously the face of the athletic department. However has the entire department crumbled. Think back. St. John’s baseball with John Franco and Frank Viola. Football Todd Jamison. Fencing nationally ranked every year. Soccer NCAA champions. All winter the school hosted CYO swim meets and every good swimmer in the metro area wanted to come to St John’s Track was top twenty in NCAA with Tin Hamlon and Joe Snieder. Now there is no swim team. No men’s track team. Every good athlete in the metro area no matter the sport aspired to come to St John’s. I don’t get that sense anymore. So is the basketball team just the face of a school that has list it’s sports luster
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I attended in the early eighties Sorry to say I knew football was gone but did not know track and swimmin* was also

i believe soccer is still prevalent
 
I was under the impression that a lot of our other sports have had pretty good success in the recent past. Baseball was doing fine until Blankenmeyer left. Womans Volleyball I think has been pretty good in the recent past. Soccer mixed. Women's hoops was doing greta under Kim and this year having a nice start this year. Lacrosse stunk under the last coach. Not sure about the other sports
 
I think swimming and some of the other sports went due to Title 9 restrictions.
 
"Every good athlete in the metro area no matter the sport aspired to come to St John’s."

Wut?
 
mjmaherjr said:
I was under the impression that a lot of our other sports have had pretty good success in the recent past. Baseball was doing fine until Blankenmeyer left. Womans Volleyball I think has been pretty good in the recent past. Soccer mixed. Women's hoops was doing greta under Kim and this year having a nice start this year. Lacrosse stunk under the last coach. Not sure about the other sports
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Woman's Soccer has taken a step up, while the men's program the other way. Volleyball has a good program, baseball did not do well last year and it remains to be seen what they do without Blankenmeyer (different landscape now than it was also as basically all the top players go south or west for the weather, outstanding facilities and where fans actually show up in the thousands to watch) and both fencing teams still do well. Lacrosse has been a dumpster fire for years while the Tennis Teams seem to do okay. I don't know where the softball program sits.
 
At the end of the day, the school needs to decide which sports make money(basketball? baseball?) and which don't. The ones that don't should be club (or even intramural) teams. I imagine the cost of running a club team would have to be substantially less then running a non-club team. Still not quite sure why, between the TV revenue and the NIL, everyone is claiming that our basketball program can't compete financially with most of the Big East schools. We're not even talking about the big state schools. And since the Big East is one of the highest ranked basketball conferences, obviously our conference as a whole is competing with all the big state school conferences. It just doesn't make sense to me that we are always in dire financial straights. What am I missing??
 
Ash yes “Bloody Friday” when the school dropped football (85 student athletes) Men’s Cross Country, Men’s Indoor and Outdoor Track & Field (65 student athletes), Mens and Women’s Swimming and Diving (100 student athletes), Men’s Ice Hockey (45 student athletes), Men‘s and Women’s Club Crew teams (70 student athletes).
‘My view on current programs compared to say 2000 vs the last 4-5 years
Men’s Soccer ⚽️ worse (struggle to make Big East tourney)
Women's Soccer better
Lacrosse worse (not saying much as they have always been non competitive)
Womens Track and Field and XC worse
Fencing program lower by a few notches ( no longer competing for NCAA team championship but individuals sneak into finals)
Mens tennis worse (no NCAA appearances)
Women’s tennis worse
Men’s Golf worse no longer make NCAA’s like under Darby
Women’s Golf better
Baseball worse no longer producing MLB draft picks or NCAA’s tourney
Softball same 20 years no NCAA appearances I believe
Women‘s basketball worse now than when Kim had the team.
Volleyball same as they always make Big East Tourney and get a surprise NCAA bid every 3-4 years.
Mens basketball worse obviously.
 
monte said:
At the end of the day, the school needs to decide which sports make money(basketball? baseball?) and which don't. The ones that don't should be club (or even intramural) teams. I imagine the cost of running a club team would have to be substantially less then running a non-club team. Still not quite sure why, between the TV revenue and the NIL, everyone is claiming that our basketball program can't compete financially with most of the Big East schools. We're not even talking about the big state schools. And since the Big East is one of the highest ranked basketball conferences, obviously our conference as a whole is competing with all the big state school conferences. It just doesn't make sense to me that we are always in dire financial straights. What am I missing??
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Monte,
The NCAA requires you to sponsor 17 varsity funded sports. You can’t just drop teams because they don’t make money. If that was the case then ONLY Men‘s Basketball would be left. SJU is trying to compete with our Big East brethren in all sports but with reduced facilities across the board (still have port-o-potties at all outdoor sports venues and no outside team locker rooms), reduced food service and athlete refueling stations and more. Also, the cost of putting up the mens hoops team at a premium NYC hotel like the Marriott Essex House (Lavin, Mullin and Anderson’s teams) for Garden games is a financial expense not faced by other Big East teams. $400-500 per night for each room (coaches and all staff get single rooms) and team catered breakfast was over $110 per person x 30 people and dinner was $140 per person, and that was back in 2012 forward. Multiply that by the number of home MSG games they used to play there…add that to the rental for MSG that I bet other schools don’t have in dollar amounts like SJU.
All other expenses like team bus charters to airports and road trips are higher in NYC than say Omaha, Prov, Indy and others.
Just some thoughts on why SJU dollars don’t go as far as other Big East programs.
 
Because of Title 9 you cant just keep basketball and baseball unless you have sports to balance that out I am all for club sports, but not even at the university level. When I lived overseas in both Asia and Europe there is no such thing as college sports (or really high school sports for that matter). Everyone was on their local sports club which had a variety of sports and weekend competitions. This was from like age 8 up through adults (even older adults - ie over 40). Back during the COVID shutdowns I attended the budget meetings at the university where I coach and teach. The meetings started with how much school was losing due to dorms closed etc, how to make saving, then got into each department budget. I was shocked at the athletic department budget (how high it was) and although no one said anything I kept thinking that's an easy target for a budget cruncher. Eventually basketball and football will break away from the NCAA and in turn this will affect revenue going to schools. The trickle down will be more cuts to other sports
 
SJUFan85/89 said:
I believe there have already been discussions at NCAA meetings about waiving the 17 sports requirement
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www.offtheblockblog.com

NCAA rejects proposal to remove minimum sports offered requirement for DI schools - Off the Block

While there remains uncertainties regarding the full effects that the coronavirus pandemic will have on college sports, NCAA Division I schools will still need to have a minimum 16 varsity programs. The NCAA Division I Council on Friday rejected a proposal from several conferences to temporarily...
www.offtheblockblog.com www.offtheblockblog.com
 
monte said:
At the end of the day, the school needs to decide which sports make money(basketball? baseball?) and which don't. The ones that don't should be club (or even intramural) teams. I imagine the cost of running a club team would have to be substantially less then running a non-club team. Still not quite sure why, between the TV revenue and the NIL, everyone is claiming that our basketball program can't compete financially with most of the Big East schools. We're not even talking about the big state schools. And since the Big East is one of the highest ranked basketball conferences, obviously our conference as a whole is competing with all the big state school conferences. It just doesn't make sense to me that we are always in dire financial straights. What am I missing??
Click to expand...

You would probably have to cut most of the programs if you stick to the bottom line of making money or generating revenue as most are non-revenue generating and if you did that you probably would not have enough teams to remain classified as a DI school and would probably violate Title IX with what you have left. The ones that might actually generate revenue (I am talking ticket sales and major sponsors) are men's basketball and men's soccer.

St. John's tried to "right size" their Athletics back in 2002 and to ensure they complied with Title IX when they eliminated six men's sport programs (football, swimming, cross-country, indoor and outdoor track) and one women's sport (swimming) while bringing back men's lacrosse which had been eliminated in 1995/96.

Most sports in college are considered non-revenue generating sports. Of course certain sports are real big in certain parts of the country (see my previous post and mention of the baseball program) while you draw flies in the same sport in other parts of the country.
 
SJU85 said:
You would probably have to cut most of the programs if you stick to the bottom line of making money or generating revenue as most are non-revenue generating and if you did that you probably would not have enough teams to remain classified as a DI school and would probably violate Title IX with what you have left. The ones that might actually generate revenue (I am talking ticket sales and major sponsors) are men's basketball and men's soccer.

St. John's tried to "right size" their Athletics back in 2002 and to ensure they complied with Title IX when they eliminated six men's sport programs (football, swimming, cross-country, indoor and outdoor track) and one women's sport (swimming) while bringing back men's lacrosse which had been eliminated in 1995/96.

Most sports in college are considered non-revenue generating sports. Of course certain sports are real big in certain parts of the country (see my previous post and mention of the baseball program) while you draw flies in the same sport in other parts of the country.
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Dave,
Men’s Soccer is a negative revenue producing sport. Masur’s salary and his staff plus scholarships and team expenses don’t balance out the pittance of attendance at Belson. Most of the students still get in free as do the local soccer youth programs (gotta make the place look 👀 like there is interest). I bet there are more dance team and cheer members and band than actual paying patrons of the sport. And there is still a comp list for the players to allow parents and friends in free for home games.
 
Alumni Hall said:
Ash yes “Bloody Friday” when the school dropped football (85 student athletes) Men’s Cross Country, Men’s Indoor and Outdoor Track & Field (65 student athletes), Mens and Women’s Swimming and Diving (100 student athletes), Men’s Ice Hockey (45 student athletes), Men‘s and Women’s Club Crew teams (70 student athletes).
‘My view on current programs compared to say 2000 vs the last 4-5 years
Men’s Soccer ⚽️ worse (struggle to make Big East tourney)
Women's Soccer better
Lacrosse worse (not saying much as they have always been non competitive)
Womens Track and Field and XC worse
Fencing program lower by a few notches ( no longer competing for NCAA team championship but individuals sneak into finals)
Mens tennis worse (no NCAA appearances)
Women’s tennis worse
Men’s Golf worse no longer make NCAA’s like under Darby
Women’s Golf better
Baseball worse no longer producing MLB draft picks or NCAA’s tourney
Softball same 20 years no NCAA appearances I believe
Women‘s basketball worse now than when Kim had the team.
Volleyball same as they always make Big East Tourney and get a surprise NCAA bid every 3-4 years.
Mens basketball worse obviously.
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Just one comment on your synopsis, Men's hockey was dropped in 1992 so not part of "Bloody Friday" unless you are talking about a club team. Really appreciate the numbers which really adds a more human feel when you look at how many student athletes were affected.
 
Alumni Hall said:
Dave,
Men’s Soccer is a negative revenue producing sport. Masur’s salary and his staff plus scholarships and team expenses don’t balance out the pittance of attendance at Belson. Most of the students still get in free as do the local soccer youth programs (gotta make the place look 👀 like there is interest). I bet there are more dance team and cheer members and band than actual paying patrons of the sport. And there is still a comp list for the players to allow parents and friends in free for home games.
Click to expand...

I have no financial knowledge of our athletic dept but I would venture to say that all sports minus Men’s Basketball lose money. Travel costs, salaries and all other expenses add up very quick for most sports that have very minimal fandom outside of family/friends. And this isn’t something that just SJU deals with, this is 95% of schools and sports. That’s why football is so valuable to the big schools, they support their entire athletic dept.
 
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