jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
" Squaring Off On Education" in today's Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/public/page/big-issues-education-04232012.html
http://online.wsj.com/public/page/big-issues-education-04232012.html
Is College A Waste Of Time And Money ?
- Thread starter jerseyshorejohnny
- Start date
JSJ, great article, a few years ago the even thought of not going to college was taboo. It is amazing how finally mainstream publications and advocates like James Altucher are finally attacking higher education inflation. I think the goverment needs to get out of the education business and colleges need to do a better job of reining in expenses.
It is amazing in 25 years how SJU has become afforable only to the wealthy or to the poor who receive federal taxpayer grants. The middle Cathoilc working class which was their base from the 1960's - 1990's is being squeezed to no end.
The question is will middle class families who live in the NY DMA like me and others on this board be able to afford to send their son or daughter to SJU in 10-15 years, without putting their child through $100,000 of debt when they graduate?
It is time for SJU to step up and become a leader in tuition reform. The Catholic HS Schoraship is a start.
More needs to be done before the school along with other mid-tier private colleges tuition bubble bursts, and it will.
It is amazing in 25 years how SJU has become afforable only to the wealthy or to the poor who receive federal taxpayer grants. The middle Cathoilc working class which was their base from the 1960's - 1990's is being squeezed to no end.
The question is will middle class families who live in the NY DMA like me and others on this board be able to afford to send their son or daughter to SJU in 10-15 years, without putting their child through $100,000 of debt when they graduate?
It is time for SJU to step up and become a leader in tuition reform. The Catholic HS Schoraship is a start.
More needs to be done before the school along with other mid-tier private colleges tuition bubble bursts, and it will.
IMO unless you get financial aid or have a very rich father, A school like SUNY makes more sense then SJU. College grads are having a tough time finding jobs. 50% of recent grads are un or under employed. My son graduuated last year and is working as a security guard at night,. Fortunately he has no debt. Kids shouldnt be graduating college w a $ 100,000 debt burden unless its an Ivy league school or a school like Stanford.
The fact is you do not need to acquire a 4 year degree today, to have a great career. Students should look at professions that require license, certifications, or specialized training programs. Examples would be the financial services industry, the computer technology field, and the various specialized training programs in the medical field. Most of these programs can be achieved in a years time at a fraction of the cost. From there you can always take your education to the next level and beyond. I have been in the insurance industry for over 37 years and received my BS degree from SJU, but I have to tell you that I learned more from my industry degree from thr American College where I received my CLU designation that my business degree from SJU!
You need college. No way past it. You said it yourself...college grads can barely find jobs as it is...imagine someone with only a HS diploma? Good luck. And there are a LOT of in between schools on the spectrum from SUNY to Ivy. There are lots of great small private schools that are worth the money eventually. The small fairly prestigious private schools are still more impressive on resumes than SUNY Brockport/Cortland/etc. You are telling me you wouldn't want a BC/Nova/Marist/Providence grad instead of a SUNY Brockport/Cobleskill/Cortland/Fredonia grad? I call BS. Think about it...you NEED college...unless there are very rare circumstances. College isn't just for jobs and money though...it makes you such a more well-rounded person and really gives you time to soul search and see what you have become. Especially going away to school it really helps you discover yourself including world views, different points of views from others, quirky professors, different environments, etc. College used to be something that was optional. These days you absolutely need it and even then there are no job or high salary guarantees. BA's are the equivalent of HS diplomas these days so if you don't have one, you are screwed. For many people you need an MBA or MA/MS/PhD/MD to really make good money these days. It's silly to even ask if college is necessary today unless you have aspirations of being a janitor or waiter.
Becoming a MD, are you serious! Two MD friends of mine regret ever getting into their own practice. My own personal MD, decided this week that he is moving out of state. He informed none of his patients of his untimely departure. THis is a scary development in this country
Yes your only options if you do not have a college degree is to become a janitor or a waiter. You are a dope kid plain and simple. College is certainly the better option.. But to say you won't be successful unless you get a degree is moronic. Many circumstances contribute to people not being able to attend college. Think before you post because you offend people sometimes with the crap that you post.
MD's are great depending on what you do. I know a ton making over 1million per year. It all depends though. My brother-in-law got accepted to Stony Brook MedicL School yesterday at a very affordable 27K per year. My friend's daughter is heading to Jefferson Med School in Philly at almost 70K per year cost. Really depends. The law of diminishing returns really kicks in depending on what field you go into and how much you paid. For my brother-in-law it will be a huge win. He will pay about 100k for a degree but have no trouble paying that off. He's formerly a theoretical Physics major and absolutely loves 12 hour days in the lab.
For me, I became a Physician Assistant which is a license/certificate program and it was great for me. The value is not in the Bachelors nor Masters as a PA. but more in the fact that it is a marketable skill and license.
Education is a great gift and privilege. It's not for everybody though, and the returns are being outweighed by the costs in many instances if you don't do due diligence into the cost of education, field of study etc.
No doubt it's not for everyone and sure college degrees don't guarantee success, but come on. We all hear of the Bill Gates story how he never graduated college and is a bajillionaire. These are all long shots though. You are focusing on exceptions instead of the rule...it's backwards. The rule is that most college grads are much more marketable, have stronger resumes, and earn more than those without a college degree. The exceptions are people like Gates and Zuckerberg. For the common man, college is the way to go and the only SUNY's that are prestigious are SB, Geneseo, and Binghamton. For all the others, small private schools are easily more prestigious and more rigorous than them. Yes you pay a lot more, but if you know what you are doing and researched your field enough, you will pay off your debt and it will pay off long-term. I don't care if what I say offends people to answer one of my critics. There is no law against offending people. If people didn't offend others expressing their views, nothing would get done in this country. This is a byproduct of our PC culture today...people think they have a right to not be offended. You don't.
Depends on what sector of the financial industry you work in. I work in finance ( asset management ) and it's extremely hard for a kid to even get a job out of college anymore in my area. Mainly we just hire people from competitors since the failure rate is so high for someone who isn't established regardless of age ( over 90% )
I knew a couple of people who didn't have degrees who were doing very well for several years that worked in mortgages but unfortunately that business imploded
It's not what you say.. It's how you say it. You offended me personally because I had to drop out of college to take care of my sick mother. I went on to open a business and was successful for a very long time. I didnt have the luxury of going back to school and I'm neither a waiter or a janitor. Watch your mouth because you think you know a lot .. Truth be told is your life is just beginning. You probably don't know what hardship is .. And your life won't truly begin until you do .
[quote="rcatalano" post=33202Examples would be the financial services industry, the computer technology field, and the various specialized training programs in the medical field.[/quote]
What kind of degree do you think you are getting in the financial services industry without a degree? Maher you wasted your time and money.
What kind of degree do you think you are getting in the financial services industry without a degree? Maher you wasted your time and money.
Thats why I say debt should be limted. If one goes to graduate school, expenses and debt are even higher. One could graduate from law school and owe $200,000 in debt. There are many fine state scools that have great reputations, while proving great opportunities at a fraction of the cost and if one is underemployed easier to deal with,
The brief mention of MD degrees being lucrative amused me. The lawyers (and I know I'm going to take some cr&p from all the lawyers on this site) have destroyed any financial incentive any good MD's would have, with their prohibitive lawsuits causing the medical profession to have astronomical lialibilaty insurance. This is due to their greed. I know there are a lot of good lawyers out there who don't chase ambulances, however, like the good Muslims, they don't do anything to try to police their own. My father gave up his practice in order to take an executive position with a nursing home because of his prohibitive insurance and he was an amazing physician who not only was a great diagnostician, but, as I found out at his wake, a great humanitarian. These are the type of people that get run out of their practices by these greedy ambulance chasers. Shame on them.
I think a lot of the MD's MCN knows though are also maybe affiliated with a very elite hospital where MCN works.
I think it depends on the field. I have a surgeon client who is doing very very well and I have a client who gave up his practice and is an administrator at a hospital who does pretty well but not as well as the good ole days as he refers to them.
GP's seem to have a harder time. Anestesiologist forget it. I have a client who retired way early because of the insurance problem
All depends though in what area you are in I guess
I think it depends on the field. I have a surgeon client who is doing very very well and I have a client who gave up his practice and is an administrator at a hospital who does pretty well but not as well as the good ole days as he refers to them.
GP's seem to have a harder time. Anestesiologist forget it. I have a client who retired way early because of the insurance problem
All depends though in what area you are in I guess
Make no mistakes. Not all MD's make that kinda money. Just saying it depends one the field and client base and yes, I work in a hospital that does very well although that is changing too. Malpractice lawyers? Don't get me started. I'll lose some friends.
Oh and Happy, we have to get together soon. Forget about medium t-shirt. He's a young'n full of piss and vinegar and not nearly the experience to make sense of it all. I know the type. We have to out again soon. Schedules have been conflicting.
Oh and Happy, we have to get together soon. Forget about medium t-shirt. He's a young'n full of piss and vinegar and not nearly the experience to make sense of it all. I know the type. We have to out again soon. Schedules have been conflicting.