Impact freshmen at SJU
- Thread starter monte
- Start date
GoldenLeaf
Well-known member
As for transfer impact players, please let's not forget the late, great, Reggie Carter. Also, first SJU game I ever watched at AH was SJU/St. Francis...featuring Mel Davis. I was a kid but he was a BEAST. As for George Johnson, he is THE most underrated/underappreciated and least discussed STAR SJU ever had......
MarkRedman
Well-known member
Felipe had a solid career at St John's
The problem was that he was over hyped
Imagine being on the cover of SI before playing a single college game
He was expected to be the second coming of Michael Jordan
The expectations were unfair and unrealistic
Pretty silly to make such comparisons for a kid with 1 Big East game under his belt but Barkley similarities are there especially since Barkley like Ponds, was 'relatively' overlooked despite being a McD AA. The kid that went to UNC was totally over-hyped physical specimen, and overshadowed Barkley the MUCH better basketball player. Both guys have really understated qualities and sneak up on you with how good they are. Barkley was in my opinion a much better defender from day one, than Ponds is - yet, and came in after a prep year more physically mature but still got banged around pretty good. Barkley probably would have done better in the NBA with another year or two in college but I can see why he left.
IMHO the Nick Van Exel comparison is closest wrt Ponds. About the same size in college and lefties but VE probably more explosive but both had the kill you inside/out skills on offense. And hate to say it but Stef Curry is not a ridiculous comparison but probably has a couple inches on Ponds.
IMHO the Nick Van Exel comparison is closest wrt Ponds. About the same size in college and lefties but VE probably more explosive but both had the kill you inside/out skills on offense. And hate to say it but Stef Curry is not a ridiculous comparison but probably has a couple inches on Ponds.
Curry got so good so fast but as a Freshmen - Big difference was Curry got to the line a lot more but he was on a good team playing much weaker competition.
MIN PPG RPG APG SPG TPG FG % 3 PT % FT %
Ponds 33.3 17.9 5.6 3.5 1.9 1.9 .46 .40 .86
Curry 30.9 21.5 4.6 2.8 1.8 2.8 .46 .41 .86
To combat the guard argument:
Sealy averaged 6.4 boards in 38 minutes.
Artest averaged 6.3 boards in 34 minutes.
Points at a shade over 6 feet is averaging 5.6 boards in 33 minutes.
ghostzapper wrote:
I love Ponds! He is totally great but this is also an apples to oranges kind of a comparison. We have never had a high caliber Freshman come in following an 8 and 24 season before.
That being said anyone who saw Ron Artest or Malik Sealy as freshman knew that they were very high impact players. Artest played with Felipe and Zendon as Seniors as well as other good talent. Sealy played with Jayson Williams and other pretty good players as well. However they both had huge impact on their respective teams immediately.
Also neither Sealy or Artest were guards who played with the ball in their hands as much as Ponds does. That all being said Ponds has been wonderful and in the context of this year and this group his impact is huge and undeniable. Hopefully he will have a long and prosperous career at St. John's
Amaseinyourface wrote:
To combat the guard argument:
Sealy averaged 6.4 boards in 38 minutes.
Artest averaged 6.3 boards in 34 minutes.
Points at a shade over 6 feet is averaging 5.6 boards in 33 minutes.
I think my point wasn't mostly about stats, it was much more about how it is harder to quantify the impact a player makes if the role that he plays and the opportunities he gets, based on the talent around him, differ.
Both Ron Artest and Malik Sealy played their freshman seasons with better surrounding players than Ponds is playing with. Neither of those two players were primary ball handlers on their teams either. Additionally the dominance that both Sealy and Artest displayed in their freshman years, had somewhat less to do with their statistics and more to do with intangibles and defense that they brought to the court. That being said, they were both definitely major impact players as freshmen.
None of this is to knock Ponds, who is an absolutely wonderful player. It is just to say if he were playing with a Jayson Williams or a Zendon Hamilton, he would not need to be rebounding as much and his stats would differ.
For this team Ponds is a primary ball handler along with Lovett. He is also the number one scoring option. This would not likely be the case if he were coming to this team two years ago when D"Angelo, Jordan and Greene were in the back court and already established players. That is not a knock on Ponds ability at all, it is just about the opportunity one gets to shine based on surrounding talent and circumstances.
The best example, I can think of, to illustrate this point is the story of the great Earl the Pearl Monroe. When Monroe was with the Bullets he was one of the most prolific guards I have ever seen and his stats reflected that. When he moved to the Knicks he had to sublimate his game to blend into a championship team with an established superstar lead guard (Walt Frazier). The fact that he did that so seamlessly and well only enhanced Monroe's greatness, but for some his abilities were not as recognized and appreciated as they were when he was a Bullet.
I love Ponds! He is totally great but this is also an apples to oranges kind of a comparison. We have never had a high caliber Freshman come in following an 8 and 24 season before.
That being said anyone who saw Ron Artest or Malik Sealy as freshman knew that they were very high impact players. Artest played with Felipe and Zendon as Seniors as well as other good talent. Sealy played with Jayson Williams and other pretty good players as well. However they both had huge impact on their respective teams immediately.
Also neither Sealy or Artest were guards who played with the ball in their hands as much as Ponds does. That all being said Ponds has been wonderful and in the context of this year and this group his impact is huge and undeniable. Hopefully he will have a long and prosperous career at St. John's
Amaseinyourface wrote:
To combat the guard argument:
Sealy averaged 6.4 boards in 38 minutes.
Artest averaged 6.3 boards in 34 minutes.
Points at a shade over 6 feet is averaging 5.6 boards in 33 minutes.
I think my point wasn't mostly about stats, it was much more about how it is harder to quantify the impact a player makes if the role that he plays and the opportunities he gets, based on the talent around him, differ.
Both Ron Artest and Malik Sealy played their freshman seasons with better surrounding players than Ponds is playing with. Neither of those two players were primary ball handlers on their teams either. Additionally the dominance that both Sealy and Artest displayed in their freshman years, had somewhat less to do with their statistics and more to do with intangibles and defense that they brought to the court. That being said, they were both definitely major impact players as freshmen.
None of this is to knock Ponds, who is an absolutely wonderful player. It is just to say if he were playing with a Jayson Williams or a Zendon Hamilton, he would not need to be rebounding as much and his stats would differ.
For this team Ponds is a primary ball handler along with Lovett. He is also the number one scoring option. This would not likely be the case if he were coming to this team two years ago when D"Angelo, Jordan and Greene were in the back court and already established players. That is not a knock on Ponds ability at all, it is just about the opportunity one gets to shine based on surrounding talent and circumstances.
The best example, I can think of, to illustrate this point is the story of the great Earl the Pearl Monroe. When Monroe was with the Bullets he was one of the most prolific guards I have ever seen and his stats reflected that. When he moved to the Knicks he had to sublimate his game to blend into a championship team with an established superstar lead guard (Walt Frazier). The fact that he did that so seamlessly and well only enhanced Monroe's greatness, but for some his abilities were not as recognized and appreciated as they were when he was a Bullet.
Class of 72
Active member
Hopefully Shamorie stays long enough to make a name for himself among the many outstanding players we have had, many of whom have been named like Barkley and Jackson. Where I would like to see Shamorie improve is in defense and ball distribution. He was always a good shooter and volume scorer in high school but he needs to develop a more complete package. He's going to put on some muscle and could even grow an inch but he plays taller and smarter than most players his height.
He is the type of guard Carnesecca never seemed to be able to sign at St. John's. Players in Shamorie's height range included Dean Meminger who never considered the redmen, Tiny Archibald and Lloyd B. Free. Curry was 6'2 and a 3 star recruit but was always a great shooter. I hope we finally got lucky with the next great NYC guard.
All in all Ponds;
Surprised many of us, primarily me, re immediate impact.
His thin build has not hurt him, master of compensating, using quickness & athleticism to offset deficiencies in that area. So deft at driving to hoop taking on guys down low.
Much better perimeter shooter than anticipated.
Understated, cerebral game, a far cry from most PSAL kids.
Great demeanor, a cool, calm kid.
A rare freshman at SJU re; becoming the guy you want to make key shot, play at crunch time. Great concentration on FTs btw.
Don't want to get into comparison game, but man I'm happy we fended off Providence last Spring to get a player who we will remember forever it appears. He makes this rebuild bearable.
Surprised many of us, primarily me, re immediate impact.
His thin build has not hurt him, master of compensating, using quickness & athleticism to offset deficiencies in that area. So deft at driving to hoop taking on guys down low.
Much better perimeter shooter than anticipated.
Understated, cerebral game, a far cry from most PSAL kids.
Great demeanor, a cool, calm kid.
A rare freshman at SJU re; becoming the guy you want to make key shot, play at crunch time. Great concentration on FTs btw.
Don't want to get into comparison game, but man I'm happy we fended off Providence last Spring to get a player who we will remember forever it appears. He makes this rebuild bearable.
Class of 72
Active member
In high school he tended not to pass the ball to open teammates when the ball was in his hands. Of course part of that was he was the star and scorer of the team but he does have a decent handle and for the next level he needs to get others involved in the offense and develop some point guard skills. Opposing team's will start focusing on him more and more and it should open up guys like Yakwe inside, Ahmed and Lovett for open shots. It is up to the coaches to see that and adjust in certain games.
The times I saw him play in high school, I felt that he deferred to his teammates too often. He is being asked to be a scorer on this team and still is second on the team in assists per game. The assists per game would be much higher if his teammates scored off his passes.
Class of 72
Active member
Andrew, I certainly don't mean to imply he was a selfish player or that he would not share the ball. Jefferson had some good players around him like his backcourt mate Rasheen Dunn and they complemented each other well. They were not coached to be a one man team. I am referring to what he will need to do at St. John's to become an NBA prospect. He will have to become a scoring point guard once the talent around him blends or gets better. Also, guarding D1 players is a little harder than guarding 16 year olds in the PSAL. In our earlier losses you may have noticed he had some difficulty with the adjustment. That is all.