Harrington just announced his resignation

IMO Harrington should be remembered as a man who set modest goals for St. John's University and from time to time met the goals he set.

Does anyone truly believe that the St.John's academic name today has greater respect than it did prior to Harrington becoming President? I don't.
Click to expand...

You sure love harping on that point. St. John's is what it is. I'm young. Can you or one of the other posters who's been around tell me. Was STJ at one point mentioned with the likes of higher academic institutions? Isn't it the mission of STJ to give opportunities to the less fortunate which in turn will make it often tough to be an elite academic institution?
Click to expand...

In response to your question, and perhaps I am not the right poster to respond given my distance from the school, when I graduated exactly 30 years ago the Law School as well and the School of Pharmacy were held in higher standing.
Click to expand...

I've heard they were. Law school recently taking a down turn. But those are very specific areas and also one being a post graduate work. I just don't get it when people take shot at their academic standing. I don't think STJ was ever talked about with the Ivy's or Michigan or UVA, or Duke's of the world.
 
Great news just heard it was busy at work. Father Harrington did the right thing, and we as a University community are better for it. Great job by Steve Fishman at NY Magazine a great muckraker who exposed the corruption.Also thank you to the 66 brave members of the SJU faculty who stood up to the corruption and forced the board to act. For the Board of Trustees who may read this post Thank you for having the moral fiber to force change..
 
Harrington did do some very good things at SJU and others that might have been regrettable. The campus has certainly been transformed, and the place is much nicer and now a campus with a totally different profile. Harrington needs to be given credit for a lot of the things he did do at SJU. More money is coming in, better facilities, applications through the roof. The basketball program suffered under Harrington as has our academic profile.

Regardless of recent scandals, bottom line is that it is time for a bit of change in philosophy. The next President has to have different goals in a changing academic landscape, where the costs of education have skyrocketed and the product is much different. I'd like to see a bit of a forward thinker with the next hire.

Fwiw, I think it is time to address our academic standing. While Harrington might have had modest goals, I think steps can be taken to move up the academic ladder and still maintain the Vincentian mission. The mission is to educate the poor. That doesn't mean that your talent pool has to have a poor academic profile. SJU can and should start to be more selective and look to pare programs that might not be as suitable for success in the world today, and maybe add programs that can utilize our strengths.

At SJU, the infrastructure has never been better. Whomever steps in has the tools to make big strides here. Just need a person with vision and less modest goals.
 
IMO Harrington should be remembered as a man who set modest goals for St. John's University and from time to time met the goals he set.

Does anyone truly believe that the St.John's academic name today has greater respect than it did prior to Harrington becoming President? I don't.
Click to expand...

You sure love harping on that point. St. John's is what it is. I'm young. Can you or one of the other posters who's been around tell me. Was STJ at one point mentioned with the likes of higher academic institutions? Isn't it the mission of STJ to give opportunities to the less fortunate which in turn will make it often tough to be an elite academic institution?
Click to expand...

I graduated from high school in 1968
One of my high school buddies couldn't get into Queensborough CC (needed an 80 average) but got accepted (and went) to St John's
Back then, you could be admitted to St John's with a C+ average (mid 70's) and minimal SAT scores
If you had an 85 average, you were eligible to take a competitive exam for a 1/2 tuition academic scholarship to St John's
However, Aubie is correct
The Law School and School of Pharmacy were held in very high regard back then
However, the undergraduate programs St John's were never mentioned with the likes of higher academic institutions
If the school was that good, I never would have received the two degrees that they gave me :)
 
It is always interesting to read how many "rate" schools as if there is some magic formula to figure out how "good" a school is academically. As if you simply show up at the Harvard library and through osmosis inherit a good education because its a "better" school.

I would argue that there are many "top" schools. However, you need to not only show up, but actually do the work, and seize the opportunities that you help create with your hard work. Personally, I am in my late 40's and have done quite well with the education I received at St. John's University. It may not be Harvard, but I am grateful to have had some success and proud to be from St. John's. In the real world, where you went to school does not matter as much as the hard work and ideas that you bring to the table. Rating a school is way overrated. Just my opinion.
 
IMO Harrington should be remembered as a man who set modest goals for St. John's University and from time to time met the goals he set.

Does anyone truly believe that the St.John's academic name today has greater respect than it did prior to Harrington becoming President? I don't.
Click to expand...

You sure love harping on that point. St. John's is what it is. I'm young. Can you or one of the other posters who's been around tell me. Was STJ at one point mentioned with the likes of higher academic institutions? Isn't it the mission of STJ to give opportunities to the less fortunate which in turn will make it often tough to be an elite academic institution?
Click to expand...

I graduated from high school in 1968
One of my high school buddies couldn't get into Queensborough CC (needed an 80 average) but got accepted (and went) to St John's
Back then, you could be admitted to St John's with a C+ average (mid 70's) and minimal SAT scores
If you had an 85 average, you were eligible to take a competitive exam for a 1/2 tuition academic scholarship to St John's
However, Aubie is correct
The Law School and School of Pharmacy were held in very high regard back then
However, the undergraduate programs St John's were never mentioned with the likes of higher academic institutions
If the school was that good, I never would have received the two degrees that they gave me :)
Click to expand...

Mark, didn't you go to St. John's on a golf scholarship? :eek:hmy:
 
IMO Harrington should be remembered as a man who set modest goals for St. John's University and from time to time met the goals he set.

Does anyone truly believe that the St.John's academic name today has greater respect than it did prior to Harrington becoming President? I don't.
Click to expand...

You sure love harping on that point. St. John's is what it is. I'm young. Can you or one of the other posters who's been around tell me. Was STJ at one point mentioned with the likes of higher academic institutions? Isn't it the mission of STJ to give opportunities to the less fortunate which in turn will make it often tough to be an elite academic institution?
Click to expand...

I graduated from high school in 1968
One of my high school buddies couldn't get into Queensborough CC (needed an 80 average) but got accepted (and went) to St John's
Back then, you could be admitted to St John's with a C+ average (mid 70's) and minimal SAT scores
If you had an 85 average, you were eligible to take a competitive exam for a 1/2 tuition academic scholarship to St John's
However, Aubie is correct
The Law School and School of Pharmacy were held in very high regard back then
However, the undergraduate programs St John's were never mentioned with the likes of higher academic institutions
If the school was that good, I never would have received the two degrees that they gave me :)
Click to expand...

Mark, didn't you go to St. John's on a golf scholarship? :eek:hmy:
Click to expand...

I was a putz for 4 years - didn't make too many of them :)
 
It is always interesting to read how many "rate" schools as if there is some magic formula to figure out how "good" a school is academically. As if you simply show up at the Harvard library and through osmosis inherit a good education because its a "better" school.

I would argue that there are many "top" schools. However, you need to not only show up, but actually do the work, and seize the opportunities that you help create with your hard work. Personally, I am in my late 40's and have done quite well with the education I received at St. John's University. It may not be Harvard, but I am grateful to have had some success and proud to be from St. John's. In the real world, where you went to school does not matter as much as the hard work and ideas that you bring to the table. Rating a school is way overrated. Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

I've always maintained that schools such as Harvard as defined primarily by the quality of student that attends, and secondarily b the faculty and education offered. It could be argued that Gates (who dropped out of Harvard), Zuckerman, and others, would still have had the same career success had they attended a lesser school.
 
I've always maintained that schools such as Harvard as defined primarily by the quality of student that attends, and secondarily b the faculty and education offered. It could be argued that Gates (who dropped out of Harvard), Zuckerman, and others, would still have had the same career success had they attended a lesser school.[/quote]

I think we are on the same page here. Its kind of like the top recruits being selected rather than recruited. Kind of like the Duke's, Kentucky's and North Carolina's selecting the best and the others fighting over the rest.
 
I graduated from CBA IN 1968. I was a B student in HS and about the same at SJU..I had a very good career for over 40 years in business and always felt I got a lot from my Education at St John's.. I could have gone to Villanova, Providence, Pace but, wasn't able to afford going away. St JOHN'S tuition was very affordable back then and many students worked part time in the financial district while carrying a full load of courses.

Yes, I think the school was highly regarded in law and pharmacy back then and the business school turned out top notch Accountants, like Jimmy Schiro and Peter Tobin and, many other distinguished Corporate and political leaders.

I believe the University got much better marks back in the day academically. It wasn't Columbia or NYU or, Fordham but, really didn't take a back seat to those schools in turning out respected graduates.Our Alumni list is long and well known.
 
Agree 100% with the faculty call for transparency. The BOT has taken care of the big picture in getting Harrington out. When you consider that Richard Nixon resigned over a single affair, as startling as Watergate was, Harrington's complicity with Chang dates his entire tenure. The allegations made by printed articles and court testimony and the investigation's conclusions regarding them are significant enough to be released publicly.

On a related note, I would think that if there was any contrition on the part of Harrington and Wile, they would return the expensive gifts and cash, compensate the university for the profits made from the corporate venture funded by the university, and repay trips, wine and clothing (men's and women's) that was paid for on the university credit cards.
 
IMO Harrington should be remembered as a man who set modest goals for St. John's University and from time to time met the goals he set.

Does anyone truly believe that the St.John's academic name today has greater respect than it did prior to Harrington becoming President? I don't.
Click to expand...

You sure love harping on that point...... Isn't it the mission of STJ to give opportunities to the less fortunate which in turn will make it often tough to be an elite academic institution?
Click to expand...

Moose,

I wholeheartedly believe that a "Mission" of St.John's University should be "to give opportunities to the less fortunate".

I disagree if your suggestion is that that goal of providing opportunities to the "less fortunate" requires St.John's to accept academic mediocrity and a low academic profile for its academics.

When St.John's was established in 1870 the "less fortunate" (your term) had far- far fewer alternatives for affordable college educations. The SUNY system did not exist until 1948 some 78 years after St.John's was founded. Likewise, the City University system was not formed in its current configuration until 1961. Today the "less fortunate" have far greater alternatives for quality public education than existed during the first 80+ years of St.John's existence. Many, if not most of the SUNY and CUNY colleges have a higher academic profile and are substantially less expensive than St.John's.

I sense that many of the St. John's grads on this site that are 50 years old and over look back with nostalgia at their time at St.John's when they could pay all of their tuition by working a summer job. Those times have changed. Today the average St.John's grad graduates with approximately $30K in educational debt. This same 50 year olds and older St.John's alums likely look back at their time when the top students from their High School accompanied them to attend St. John's. Again times have changes and regrettably St. John's no longer gets the same share of the top students as evidenced by the fact that the 25% to 75% range for the SATs of students enrolling at St.John's is reported to be 970 to 1190 combined for Math & Reading. Stated another way, more than one quarter of the frosh entering St.John's have a SAT score below 1000 yet St.John's admits them and thereafter the student is saddled with an average debt of $30K+/- when SUNY & CUNY would have provided a like (or perhaps better) education with less debt. The hard cold reality is that St. John's has an embarrassingly low six year graduation rate of just 58%. The fact that 42% of the students admitted to study at St.john's don't graduate within 6 years likely means that many high schoolers are being admitted who lack educational skills necessary to succeed at the college level. Unfortunately many of the 42% who never graduate from St.John's are nevertheless saddled with a life altering educational debt created which studying at St.John's.

IMO the St.john's Trustees should look at the organizational model of the University to determine whether given the increased financial burden of attending college and the additional alternatives for the "less fortunate" to receive a quality low cost education it is in the interests of all parties is for St.John's to cut the student enrollment and use the savings in financial aid to more fully subsidize the smaller class. which would have better credentials and provide greater credibility to the school.

Contrary to what the handful of continued Harrington loyalists would have you believe, St. John's financial aid is not more generous than offered at other national Catholic colleges. The average financial aid package at St.John's is $27,045 which is consistent, or less than other "Catholic Colleges". Villanova's average 1st year financial aid package is $27,851. Providence College's average 1st year financial aid package is $28,357. Georgetown average 1st year financial aid package is $32,019. Fairfield University average 1st year financial aid package is $27,725. Fordham University average 1st year financial aid package is $27,856. Notre Dame average 1st year financial aid package is $35,326. Holy Cross average 1st year financial aid package is $$33,492. [Source: The College Board]

IMO St. John's should consider creating an Honors College and actively recruit and advertise to students with top credentials that they can attend the St. John's University Honors College for absolutely no cost. Granted that St.John's already offers merit scholarships but that fact is not IMO promoted as it should be. Why not offer a program that any student from a family with a family income less than $70K with SATs above 1350 with comparable credentials can attend St.John's undergrad for no tuition?

Moose, please do not mistake my occasional criticism of St. John's University or Harrington as disloyalty to the University. I appreciate that St.John's played an important part in whatever limited success I have enjoyed but my respect for St.John's lUniversity leads me to expect more of it that it now offers. St.John's organizational model should be modified and,

Here's what I believe- IMO Harrington has not served the interests of the University........ IMO the facts reported regarding Chang and Wiles demonstrate a serious flaw in the oversight by the St.John's Board of Trustees....... I do not believe that St.John's "Mission" is to admit students with sub 1000 SATs when less costly alternatives now exist for those students to pursue their education......... I do not believe that St. John's Mission is to administer an admissions policy that results in a staggering 42% of admitted undergrad students never graduating from the University in a 6 year period with many of the non performers being saddled with life altering debt....... I do not believe that St. John's far reaching policy of admitting substantial numbers of sub 1000 SAT applicants benefits the sub 1000 SAT applicants, nor the top students entering St.John's, nor does it benefit St. John's itself......... I do not believe that the "less fortunate" are necessarily the weaker academic applicants and if executed properly St.John's could create a well worn path for a greater number of academically qualified "less fortunate" students. ......... I believe that given the successful St.John's alum base and the proximity of the University to the Financial Capital of the world that St.John's should have a top 100 ranked undergrad business program........... I believe that opportunities for academic distinction was squandered by not capitalizing on the 2001 acquisition of the respected College of Insurance............ I believe that the St.John's Pharmacy school should be ranked higher than its current #62 of 80 schools in the US News rankings......... I believe that the School of Law's rankings and recognition is diminished by the academic image of the undergrad programs, or stated another way - top students may overlook the St.John's Law School because of their perception of the University's undergrad reputation........... I believe that the "Mission" has become an excuse for mediocrity by the small band of Harrington loyalists.

Now that I have shared my thoughts with you as you requested, I invite you and others to provide replies that agree or disagree with my above thoughts.

Thanks.

______________________________

p.s. IMO Harrington was at best a mediocre fundraiser. When Harrington took over as President in 1989 St. John's had an endowment of $79M. Today Harrington claims an endowment of $411M. That growth sounds impressive until you understand that with the inflation over the 24 years Harrington has served, the $79M would have a value of $422M which means that Harrington's fundraising, which included 2 major campaigns has failed to keep up with inflation.
Here is a link to that calculation: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi
 
IMO Harrington should be remembered as a man who set modest goals for St. John's University and from time to time met the goals he set.

Does anyone truly believe that the St.John's academic name today has greater respect than it did prior to Harrington becoming President? I don't.
Click to expand...

You sure love harping on that point...... Isn't it the mission of STJ to give opportunities to the less fortunate which in turn will make it often tough to be an elite academic institution?
Click to expand...

Moose,

I wholeheartedly believe that a "Mission" of St.John's University should be "to give opportunities to the less fortunate".

I disagree with your suggestion that that goal of providing opportunities to the "less fortunate" requires St.John's to accept academic mediocrity and a low academic profile for its academics.

When St.John's was established in 1870 the "less fortunate" (your term) had far- far fewer alternatives for affordable college educations. The SUNY system did not exist until 1948 some 78 years after St.John's was founded. Likewise, the City University system was not formed in its current configuration until 1961. Today the "less fortunate" have far greater alternatives for quality public education than existed during the first 80+ years of St.John's existence. Many, if not most of the SUNY and CUNY colleges have a higher academic profile and are substantially less expensive than St.John's.

I sense that many of the St. John's grads on this site that are 50 years old and over look back with nostalgia at their time at St.John's when they could pay all of their tuition by working a summer job and with work after school. Those times have changed. Today the average St.John's grad graduates with approximately $30K in educational debt. This same 50 year olds and older St.John's alums likely look back at their time when the top students from their High School accompanied them to attend St. John's. Again times have changes and regrettably St. John's no longer gets the same share of the top students as evidenced by the fact that the 25% to 75% range for the SATs of students e rolling at St.John's is reported to be 970 to 1190. Stated another way, more than one quarter of the frosh entering St.John's have a SAT score below 1000 combined for Math & Reading yet St.John's admits them and thereafter the student is saddled with an average debt of $30K+/- when SUNY & CUNY would have provided a like (or perhaps better) education with less debt. The hard cold reality is that St. John's has an embarrassingly low six year graduation rate of just 58%. The fact that 42% of the students admitted to study at St.john's likely means that many high schoolers are being admitted who lack educational skills necessary to succeed at the college level. Unfortunately many of the 42% who never graduate from St.John's are nevertheless saddled with a life altering educational debt created which studying at St.John's.

IMO the St.john's Trustees should look at the organizational model of the University to determine whether given the increased financial burden of attending college and the additional alternatives for the "less fortunate" to receive a quality low cost education it is in the interests of all parties is for St.John's to cut the student enrollment and use the savings in financial aid to more fully subsidize the smaller class. which would have better credentials and provide greater credibility to the school.

Contrary to what the handful of continued Harrington loyalists would have you believe, St. John's financial aid is not more generous than offered at other national Catholic colleges. The average financial aid package at St.John's is $27,045 which is consistent, or less than other "Catholic Colleges". Villanova's average 1st year financial aid package is $27,851. Providence College's average 1st year financial aid package is $28,357. Georgetown average 1st year financial aid package is $32,019. Fairfield University average 1st year financial aid package is $27,725. Fordham University average 1st year financial aid package is $27,856. Notre Dame average 1st year financial aid package is $35,326. Holy Cross average 1st year financial aid package is $$33,492. [Source: The College Board]

IMO St. John's should consider creating an Honors College and actively recruit and advertise to students with top credentials that they can attend the St. John's University Honors College for absolutely no cost. Granted that St.John's already offers merit scholarships that fact is not promoted as it should be

Moose, please do not mistake my occasional criticism of St. John's University or Harrington as disloyalty to the University. I appreciate that St.John's played an important part in whatever limited success I have enjoyed but my respect for St.John's lUniversity leads me to expect more of it that it now offers. St.John's organizational model should be modified and,

Here's what I believe- IMO Harrington has not served the interests of the University. I do not believe that St.John's "Mission" is to admit students with sub 1000 SATs. I do not believe that St. John's Mission is to administer an admissions policy that results in a staggering 42% of admitted undergrad students never graduating from the University in a 6 year period. I do not believe that St. John's far reaching policy of admitting substantial numbers of sub 1000 SAT applicants benefits the sub 1000 SAT applicants, nor the top students entering St.John's, nor does it benefit St. John's itself. I do not believe that the "less fortunate" are necessarily the weaker academic applicants and if executed properly St.John's could create a well worn path for a greater number of academically qualified "less fortunate" students. I believe that given the successful St.John's alum base and the proximity of the University to the Financial Capital of the world that St.John's should have a top 100 ranked undergrad business program. I believe that opportunities for academic distinction was squandered by not capitalizing on the 2001 acquisition of the respected College of Insurance. I believe that the St.John's Pharmacy school should have a ranking higher than #62 of 80 schools in the US News rankings. I believe that the School of Law's rankings and recognition is diminished to academic image of the undergrad programs, or stated another way - top students may overlook the St.John's Law School because of their perception of the University's undergrad reputation. I believe that the "Mission" has become an excuse for mediocrity by the small band of Harrington loyalists.

Now that I have shared my thoughts with you as you requested, I invite you and others to provide replies that agree or disagree with my above thoughts.

Thanks.

______________________________

p.s. IMO Harrington was at best a mediocre fundraiser. When Harrington took over as President in 1989 St. John's had an endowment of $79M. Today Harrington claims an endowment of $411M. That growth sounds impressive until you understand that with the inflation over the 24 years Harrington has served, the $79M would have a value of $422M which means that Harrington's fundraising, which included 2 major campaigns has failed to keep up with inflation.
Here is a link to that calculation: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi
Click to expand...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...3928-06a1-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_graphic.html
 
Tom,

i am not sure what point you are attempting to make with the link you posted.

If you are attempting to say that there is a correlation between family income and SATs then I believe you are correct.

If you are attempting to say that there are no high schoolers in families with low family incomes who receive high SATs then you are wrong.

My vision is for St.John's to attract better academically qualified students from families of low income and have those students graduate with less debt.

If you are satisfied with the status quo then you are entitled to your opinion.

Thanks.
 
IMO Harrington should be remembered as a man who set modest goals for St. John's University and from time to time met the goals he set.

Does anyone truly believe that the St.John's academic name today has greater respect than it did prior to Harrington becoming President? I don't.
Click to expand...

You sure love harping on that point...... Isn't it the mission of STJ to give opportunities to the less fortunate which in turn will make it often tough to be an elite academic institution?
Click to expand...

Moose,

I wholeheartedly believe that a "Mission" of St.John's University should be "to give opportunities to the less fortunate".

I disagree if your suggestion is that that goal of providing opportunities to the "less fortunate" requires St.John's to accept academic mediocrity and a low academic profile for its academics.

When St.John's was established in 1870 the "less fortunate" (your term) had far- far fewer alternatives for affordable college educations. The SUNY system did not exist until 1948 some 78 years after St.John's was founded. Likewise, the City University system was not formed in its current configuration until 1961. Today the "less fortunate" have far greater alternatives for quality public education than existed during the first 80+ years of St.John's existence. Many, if not most of the SUNY and CUNY colleges have a higher academic profile and are substantially less expensive than St.John's.

I sense that many of the St. John's grads on this site that are 50 years old and over look back with nostalgia at their time at St.John's when they could pay all of their tuition by working a summer job. Those times have changed. Today the average St.John's grad graduates with approximately $30K in educational debt. This same 50 year olds and older St.John's alums likely look back at their time when the top students from their High School accompanied them to attend St. John's. Again times have changes and regrettably St. John's no longer gets the same share of the top students as evidenced by the fact that the 25% to 75% range for the SATs of students enrolling at St.John's is reported to be 970 to 1190 combined for Math & Reading. Stated another way, more than one quarter of the frosh entering St.John's have a SAT score below 1000 yet St.John's admits them and thereafter the student is saddled with an average debt of $30K+/- when SUNY & CUNY would have provided a like (or perhaps better) education with less debt. The hard cold reality is that St. John's has an embarrassingly low six year graduation rate of just 58%. The fact that 42% of the students admitted to study at St.john's don't graduate within 6 years likely means that many high schoolers are being admitted who lack educational skills necessary to succeed at the college level. Unfortunately many of the 42% who never graduate from St.John's are nevertheless saddled with a life altering educational debt created which studying at St.John's.

IMO the St.john's Trustees should look at the organizational model of the University to determine whether given the increased financial burden of attending college and the additional alternatives for the "less fortunate" to receive a quality low cost education it is in the interests of all parties is for St.John's to cut the student enrollment and use the savings in financial aid to more fully subsidize the smaller class. which would have better credentials and provide greater credibility to the school.

Contrary to what the handful of continued Harrington loyalists would have you believe, St. John's financial aid is not more generous than offered at other national Catholic colleges. The average financial aid package at St.John's is $27,045 which is consistent, or less than other "Catholic Colleges". Villanova's average 1st year financial aid package is $27,851. Providence College's average 1st year financial aid package is $28,357. Georgetown average 1st year financial aid package is $32,019. Fairfield University average 1st year financial aid package is $27,725. Fordham University average 1st year financial aid package is $27,856. Notre Dame average 1st year financial aid package is $35,326. Holy Cross average 1st year financial aid package is $$33,492. [Source: The College Board]

IMO St. John's should consider creating an Honors College and actively recruit and advertise to students with top credentials that they can attend the St. John's University Honors College for absolutely no cost. Granted that St.John's already offers merit scholarships but that fact is not IMO promoted as it should be. Why not offer a program that any student from a family with a family income less than $70K with SATs above 1350 with comparable credentials can attend St.John's undergrad for no tuition?

Moose, please do not mistake my occasional criticism of St. John's University or Harrington as disloyalty to the University. I appreciate that St.John's played an important part in whatever limited success I have enjoyed but my respect for St.John's lUniversity leads me to expect more of it that it now offers. St.John's organizational model should be modified and,

Here's what I believe- IMO Harrington has not served the interests of the University........ IMO the facts reported regarding Chang and Wiles demonstrate a serious flaw in the oversight by the St.John's Board of Trustees....... I do not believe that St.John's "Mission" is to admit students with sub 1000 SATs when less costly alternatives now exist for those students to pursue their education......... I do not believe that St. John's Mission is to administer an admissions policy that results in a staggering 42% of admitted undergrad students never graduating from the University in a 6 year period with many of the non performers being saddled with life altering debt....... I do not believe that St. John's far reaching policy of admitting substantial numbers of sub 1000 SAT applicants benefits the sub 1000 SAT applicants, nor the top students entering St.John's, nor does it benefit St. John's itself......... I do not believe that the "less fortunate" are necessarily the weaker academic applicants and if executed properly St.John's could create a well worn path for a greater number of academically qualified "less fortunate" students. ......... I believe that given the successful St.John's alum base and the proximity of the University to the Financial Capital of the world that St.John's should have a top 100 ranked undergrad business program........... I believe that opportunities for academic distinction was squandered by not capitalizing on the 2001 acquisition of the respected College of Insurance............ I believe that the St.John's Pharmacy school should be ranked higher than its current #62 of 80 schools in the US News rankings......... I believe that the School of Law's rankings and recognition is diminished by the academic image of the undergrad programs, or stated another way - top students may overlook the St.John's Law School because of their perception of the University's undergrad reputation........... I believe that the "Mission" has become an excuse for mediocrity by the small band of Harrington loyalists.

Now that I have shared my thoughts with you as you requested, I invite you and others to provide replies that agree or disagree with my above thoughts.

Thanks.

______________________________

p.s. IMO Harrington was at best a mediocre fundraiser. When Harrington took over as President in 1989 St. John's had an endowment of $79M. Today Harrington claims an endowment of $411M. That growth sounds impressive until you understand that with the inflation over the 24 years Harrington has served, the $79M would have a value of $422M which means that Harrington's fundraising, which included 2 major campaigns has failed to keep up with inflation.
Here is a link to that calculation: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi
Click to expand...

Very hard to respond to such a long post, but will try, briefly:

1) The St John's mission is to give educational opportunities to the less fortunate. Agreed, but this was not their original mission. St. John's like most urban Catholic universities, were established to provide low cost Catholic college educations to the sons and daughters of Catholic immigrants. As Catholic universities have become secularized, and the wave of immigrants to larger cities was less European and less Catholic, they modified this mission to reflect their changing values and the business necessity (without dorms) of attracting local students from Brooklyn and Queens. In the process they gave away Long Island (still a Catholic middle class stronghold) and immensely helped Adelphi, Hofstra, Post and Molloy grow.

2) I am confident your numbers are correct in terms of the average aid that other Catholic Universities provide, BUT, first hand I can tell you that Villanova is not very generous to the average very bright student they accept from middle class families. They may be providing full rides for the very brightest students, and for academically qualified disadvantaged students, but that's pretty much it. There is no way they come close to SJU in terms of SJU offering some tuition reduction to about 95% of students.

3) One reason tuition has skyrocketed (and only one reason among many) is the growth of personnel infrastructure of all universities. I read some statistic that the average university has about 50% more employees than they did 20 years ago on a per student basis. Today a parent has no problem engaging administration and getting rapid responses. There are more study centers, assistance writing, tutors, etc. Of course, amenities have grown tremendously - health clubs on campus, Starbucks like coffee shops, healthy high quality food choices, etc.

4) Really not fair to compare the St. John's endowment with when Harrington took over, since so much has been spent on new buildings, a baseball and lacrosse/success stadium, Tafner center, a new chapel, dormitories, parking garages, literally hundreds of millions of dollars in campus improvements, as well as purchase of the Oakdale campus, growth of Staten Island to a sizeable 4 year campus, campuses in Rome and Paris.

5) Agree wholeheartedly with admitting students with Sub-1000 SAT scores. As others have pointed out, SJU 40 years ago was easier to get into than most decent CUNY schools, via St. Vincent's College. I do not believe this is all "charitably" motivated. 40% are Pelle eligible, and when SJU throws in a substantial tuition reduction, the kid gets a low interest student loan. You can make a very good business case for providing a disadvantaged and academically inferior student with a crummy education for the amount of his/her student loans and government furnished Pell grant which likely totals $20 grand a year or more.

6) I don't know the basis of ranking pharmacy schools but I do know only one thing and one thing only matters - the pass rate on the State board exams. If St. John's is ranked 62nd nationally in that regard, I'd accept their ranking, but could you please provide that basis. Traditionally St. John's did at one point have the highest NYS bar exam pass rate, and again, that matters more than anything to most students and parents.
 
Well said Otis. Can someone paste that and email to every member of the Board of Trustees?

St. John's can also save costs and reduce class size by eliminating overlapping programs in the College of Professional Studies. English, Business Management, etc., can be folded into the Liberal Arts and the Business colleges.
 
Otis

I appreciate your response. You make many good points. And yes I am not one of those over 50 yrs old grads so STJ as it is now is pretty much what I'm used to since I'm a more recent grad. To me honestly a degree is a degree unless you are getting it from one of those elite universities. Very similar to a Top 25 in basketball if you will. There are elite schools but then there is the rest and to me a degree from STJ or Providence or pick another place is what you make of it. I'm indifferent on SAT scores. I didnt score that well yet I think I've done well for myself.

The bigger issue I see from your post is that there are many unqualified kids who are 'choosing' STJ over those other schools when meanwhile they don't see it thru to graduation.

Botton line a new president will without a doubt bring a fresh perspective.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top