Happy Birthday Coach Lavin

There is a ton of revisionist history in this thread. Lavin could recruit very well when he tried and was well-liked by his players. He deserves that much. And to be fair, I was wrong about his care for the players. It appears to have been genuine. At the time, it certainly looked like he used every personal story as an opportunity for excuse and pr. I may have judged him harshly in that regard.

But without relitigating the past, let's not act like he could actually coach a wink. Telling a Div 1 player during a timeout how to put his hands up and wave them maniacally is not coaching.
His false motion offense was crap year after year. But my biggest issue, which Moose alluded to, was his inability to manage a program. A strong AD would have done him wonders because he could not manage to keep his team on the floor and moving in the same direction. Multiple guys were always suspended, ineligible, or just plain mia, from day one until his last day here. And, unfortunately, besides being on Ponds, he stopped recruiting and missed out on way too many locals we had a real chance with. Including Whitehead and Briscoe. Despite being an airhead basketball-wise, we could have done well with him if he was given direction regarding his staff and roster.

Happy birthday and good riddens are not mutually exclusive expressions. I wish him both.
 
I think many of us on the site believe Lavin is a decent guy and did make positive contributions to our BB program . When he arrived from UCLA and his TV commentator gig to succeed Norm, I thought he would take us to a National Level and possibly Final 4 . He recruited a Monster Incoming Class . Harkless , Harrison , Sampson , Greene , Garrett , etc . Bad luck happened quickly though as Sampson didn’t qualify , Pelle went to who knows where and Harkless became a 1 and done . Still , that was a talented group but , always seemed to underachieve . Lavin added Branch as a transfer from Texas A & M . He proved to be competent but , not much more . As some have mentioned here frequently , Steve was a better Talker than Coach . He was a awful Bench Coach . Clueless at in game adjustments . And , again , as mentioned , didn’t seem to get or work hard on Local kids . Willard clearly outrecruited him badly . Jordan , ability wise , was a great get but , it should have been a clue that Nova was never interested in a local 5 star player. Temple was our only competition . Jordan had the ability to be. future NBA pick but , also underachieved in his drama filled seasons . The quality of Lavin as a good person is not a issue . His continued contact with Jordan during his incarceration is outstanding . But , as a Coach , I think he lost his own Zeal for all that’s necessary to be a good College Coach . And , seemed a little too interested in hanging around Manhattan hot spots with Keady and sampling lots of expensive bourbons . Not that he wasn’t free to do that but , he didn’t use a lot of time building relationships locally . It hurt him in the end .
 
I'm not surprised the last two posters would hijack the thread. I think Lavin stole and banged Desco's woman. His posts about Lavin always (and, still obviously) reeked of jealousy and pettiness. Nevertheless....

I first encountered Lavin as he, Tony Chiles, and Rico Hines was searching for a parking spot (Chiles was driving) at the 2010 Peach Jam. I had met Chiles and Hines earlier that morning, and this was during the afternoon, and Chiles saw me and announced, "There he goes," and he stopped the car and all of 'em got out of the car. Lavin introduced himself and we all had a brief conversation (Lavin and I briefly continued to dialogue after Chiles and Hines had re-entered the vehicle) before they made their way into the gymnasium. I told 'em I would be back for the evening session and I'd chat it up later.

Fast forward to the evening session, and I noticed Lavin outdoors checking text messages. He looked up and noticed me, and we ended up conversing for about 10-15 minutes before he and I made our way back into the gym. We exchanged numbers, and he would periodically buzz me with messages about the team and life in general. He would always greet me whenever we ran into one another and he never forgot my name.

He had a plan in place as he stated to me during the summer of 2011. Whether he devised or miscalculated his plan.... That can be argued. But he had laid out a plan for how he thought or wanted things to go going into the 2012-2013 season. He figured the bonanza 2011 recruiting class would all be together for their sophomore seasons, along with Rico Gathers and potentially Kyle Anderson (I knew he was referencing those two, although he didn't directly mention their names) as freshmen.

He figured that particular team would be able to "take off" and springboard the program. Yes, it's revisionist history, but you're talking about a potentially loaded squad if things had played out to fruition. Oh, well....

Lavin always handled himself graciously and I wish him the best going forward. Happy Belated 56th birthday!
 
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[quote="MJDinkins" post=397705]I'm not surprised the last two posters would hijack the thread. I think Lavin stole and banged Desco's woman. His posts about Lavin always (and, still obviously) reeked of jealousy and pettiness. Nevertheless....

I first encountered Lavin as he, Tony Chiles, and Rico Hines was searching for a parking spot (Chiles was driving) at the 2010 Peach Jam. I had met Chiles and Hines earlier that morning, and this was during the afternoon, and Chiles saw me and announced, "There he goes," and he stopped the car and all of 'em got out of the car. Lavin introduced himself and we all had a brief conversation (Lavin and I briefly continued to dialogue after Chiles and Hines had re-entered the vehicle) before they made their way into the gymnasium. I told 'em I would be back for the evening session and I'd chat it up later.

Fast forward to the evening session, and I noticed Lavin outdoors checking text messages. He looked up and noticed me, and we ended up conversing for about 10-15 minutes before he and I made our way back into the gym. We exchanged numbers, and he would periodically buzz me with messages about the team and life in general. He would always greet me whenever we ran into one another and he never forgot my name.

He had a plan in place as he stated to me during the summer of 2011. Whether he devised or miscalculated his plan.... That can be argued. But he had laid out a plan for how he thought or wanted things to go going into the 2012-2013 season. He figured the bonanza 2011 recruiting class would all be together for their sophomore seasons, along with Rico Gathers and potentially Kyle Anderson (I knew he was referencing those two, although he didn't directly mention their names) as freshmen.

He figured that particular team would be able to "take off" and springboard the program. Yes, it's revisionist history, but you're talking about a potentially loaded squad if things had played out to fruition. Oh, well....

Lavin always handled himself graciously and I wish him the best going forward. Happy Belated 56th birthday![/quote]
Great story
 
[quote="Desco80" post=397697]There is a ton of revisionist history in this thread. Lavin could recruit very well when he tried and was well-liked by his players. He deserves that much. And to be fair, I was wrong about his care for the players. It appears to have been genuine. At the time, it certainly looked like he used every personal story as an opportunity for excuse and pr. I may have judged him harshly in that regard.

But without relitigating the past, let's not act like he could actually coach a wink. Telling a Div 1 player during a timeout how to put his hands up and wave them maniacally is not coaching.
His false motion offense was crap year after year. But my biggest issue, which Moose alluded to, was his inability to manage a program. A strong AD would have done him wonders because he could not manage to keep his team on the floor and moving in the same direction. Multiple guys were always suspended, ineligible, or just plain mia, from day one until his last day here. And, unfortunately, besides being on Ponds, he stopped recruiting and missed out on way too many locals we had a real chance with. Including Whitehead and Briscoe. Despite being an airhead basketball-wise, we could have done well with him if he was given direction regarding his staff and roster.

Happy birthday and good riddens are not mutually exclusive expressions. I wish him both.[/quote]


Whitehead was ours if Lavin would have played ball with Tiny. And I have no doubt that entailed more than just an AC slot. Lavin to his credit refused; he was loyal to his staff and at that point probably assumed he could recruit well enough to not get in bed with that.

Willard on the other hand was about to be fired. So he turned a blind-eye and played ball with Morton which is why they got IW, just as he did with Antigua and Delgado. It not only saved Willard’s job but allowed him to make millions and he’s now turned the Hall into a solid program because of those moves. It’s also why I happen to think Willard is a slime ball clothed who doesn’t get called out as one. Whereas that incident and others showed me that Lavin wasn’t how he was always portrayed by other fan bases, the media (to some extent) and even some of our fans
 
Loved hearing these stories and makes me respect Lavin even more as a person. You really learn alot about his character. Results aside, the fact that he was let go by St John's and still celebrates and represents the school really says alot.
 
Only on Redmen.com does happy birthday become a referendum of how horrible a coach and person someone is.

Thanks, guys for sharing stories of just how personable Lavin is. It''s great to hear just how many of you have bad close interactions with him. Good measure of a man to behave in this manner AFTER he is gone and has nothing to gain from it.
 
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Lavin made some early mistakes in his recruiting, but, in putting together his staff, he originally brought in Mo Hicks as the third assistant and then demoted him to Director of Operations, where he could not recruit, replacing him with Rico Hines. That probably could help explain his limited success with local recruiting.
 
[quote="Las Vegan" post=397740]Lavin made some early mistakes in his recruiting, but, in putting together his staff, he originally brought in Mo Hicks as the third assistant and then demoted him to Director of Operations, where he could not recruit, replacing him with Rico Hines. That probably could help explain his limited success with local recruiting.[/quote]

Not correct
Hicks was brought in from Day 1 as DOBO
And Hines was assistant from day 1. Darrick Martin came on board after Dunlap left. Then Whitesell came on board another year later bumping Martin down
 
[quote="Moose" post=397754][quote="Las Vegan" post=397740]Lavin made some early mistakes in his recruiting, but, in putting together his staff, he originally brought in Mo Hicks as the third assistant and then demoted him to Director of Operations, where he could not recruit, replacing him with Rico Hines. That probably could help explain his limited success with local recruiting.[/quote]

Not correct
Hicks was brought in from Day 1 as DOBO
And Hines was assistant from day 1. Darrick Martin came on board after Dunlap left. Then Whitesell came on board another year later bumping Martin down[/quote]

Jeez, there were some poor choices made. Did Rico or Martin ever bring a kid in?

Lavin should have probably tried to steal Matt from Iowa St.
 
Point taken, but the error remains. Why bring Hicks on to the staff in a non-recruiting position? His success at Rice, in the CHSAA and in AAU ball, would seem to have made him an ideal candidate for third assistant.
 
[quote="Las Vegan" post=397758]Point taken, but the error remains. Why bring Hicks on to the staff in a non-recruiting position? His success at Rice, in the CHSAA and in AAU ball, would seem to have made him an ideal candidate for third assistant.[/quote]

Of course it’s way in the past now but I don’t recall many complaints with first staff. Dunlap was the X and O guy. Chiles was the successful local assistant. Rico had the player development experience with Golden State and Sacramento.

Rice was floundering and the Gauchos were losing steam. I don’t recall if Mack and Jack were already committed. Mack was good from day 1. Jack too three years to get going by the time Rutgers left the BE.

The case of when Dunlap left and Martin came in is valid. That’s when Hicks could have helped but by then the two programs were even further lost.

Speaking of this. Where the heck is Hicks these days ?
 
Funny how Lavin signed the #56 recruit Brandon Sampson and #205 Samir Doughty for his final class but most people had basically given up on him because we struck out on a few top 10 recruits. Truth is we were spoiled by his recruiting and became greedy. I was one of those people and it took me a few years to realize it. Would love to see an alternative reality where Lavin stayed on as HC.
 
An interesting question would be did we get Sliced out of Briscoe. Did Lavin get the famous silent verbal ? Did he arrange fir the presser and tv time only to get screwed ? Was Isiah dad pissed off at how that went down too ? Inquiring minds want to know
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=397766]An interesting question would be did we get Sliced out of Briscoe. Did Lavin get the famous silent verbal ? Did he arrange fir the presser and tv time only to get screwed ? Was Isiah dad pissed off at how that went down too ? Inquiring minds want to know[/quote]

That sounds like a big slice of inside information. :lol:
 
[quote="L J S A" post=397767][quote="mjmaherjr" post=397766]An interesting question would be did we get Sliced out of Briscoe. Did Lavin get the famous silent verbal ? Did he arrange fir the presser and tv time only to get screwed ? Was Isiah dad pissed off at how that went down too ? Inquiring minds want to know[/quote]

That sounds like a big slice of inside information. :lol:[/quote]



Lavin did not get a silent verbal, he got a LOUD VERBAL. I was sitting in the room in Taffner after Midnight Madness with Lavin, Tony Chiles, Rico Hines, DeAngelo, and Rysheed. DeAngelo who was a senior was telling Briscoe how much Lavin had done for him and how he would enjoy playing with Rysheed. Sheed told him he was looking forward to playing with him. Briscoe told them, "I'm coming".

There are rumors about what happened between then and the announcement one being that a package was delivered to the family the night before the announcement. Since I do not have first hand knowledge of this, I will not mention any names.

What I do know is that I got a funny feeling watching Briscoe's announcement when I saw that his AAU coach was there. Jimmy Salmon runs a very good program, but has not been a fan of St. Johns since the Jarvis days.

Two things hurt Lavin badly, Gathers opting out of his commitment and going to Baylor and Chris Obekpa testing positive for marijuana before the NCAA tournament. Gathers opting out as a big blow when you look at his career at Baylor.

Obekpa testing positive was the straw that broke the camel's back. Many on here, myself included were very upset. Then, I put it in perspective and wondered what would happen if all students had to take a urine test before their final exams?

I agree with Beast in stating that this was a birthday post for a former Coach, no more, no less.
 
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