Free Throws Free Throws Free Throws!!!!!

ghostzapper

ghostzapper

Well-known member
2023 $upporter
I know that shooting free throws is just one part of the game but as a fan it has been maddening to watch our ineptitude from the line this season. Watching Depaul finish off the game tonight by making 12 straight from the charity stripe and watching us miss on 11 of 30 free throws got me to thinking about just how terrible we are from the line this year and how bad we are in comparison to the rest of the country at this part of the game. I also think it is worth noting that Coach Mullin was one of the best Free Throw shooters ever. I would think this has to frustrate him to watch how bad we are at a phase of the game that he mastered so well.

Going into tonight's contest we sat 339th of 351 schools in division 1 in free throw percentage. Looking at this I thought this just must be an aberrational year for St. John's to be this terrible. For sure I thought we must have had some years where we were at least decent from the line. Surprisingly (although this is the worst year statistically from the line that I was able to find) the results going back aren't that much better for us.

I was able to go back and look at where we ranked nationally for the last fifteen years in regular season free throw percentage and we generally were ranked low. For comparison I looked up where Villanova was ranked for the same period of time. (see below) The comparison is not pretty here.

I offer no specific explanation or theory about why this happens year after year but I do pose these question for people out there. Why has this negative trend existed for so long and what do you believe is the reason for it? It has gone back over several regimes of coaches so for me it is hard to look at it as just a coaching thing. Is it recruiting philosophy? Is it bad luck? Lighting in out arena? A free throw curse or is it something else? Let me know your theories.

Most importantly can the current coaching staff reverse this trend and turn this consistent negative element of our game into a positive element?

If they can't figure it out maybe someone can look at what Jay Wright is doing at Villanova because they seem to be making the Free Throw thing work for them really well.


Year
2015/16 SJU NR 339 / Vill NR 1
2014/15 SJU NR 173 / Vill NR 49
2013/14 SJU NR 180 / Vill NR 123
2012/13 SJU NR 316 / Vill NR 85
2011/12 SJU NR 225 / Vill NR 20
2010/11 SJU NR 110 / Vill NR 17
2009/10 SJU NR 291 / Vill NR 13
2008/09 SJU NR 289 / Vill NR 28
2007/08 SJU NR 266 / Vill NR 71
2006/07 SJU NR 073 / Vill NR 1
2005/06 SJU NR 272 / Vill NR 17
2004/05 SJU NR 218 / Vill NR 24
2003/04 SJU NR 292 / Vill NR 31
2002/03 SJU NR 260 / Vill NR 93
2001/02 SJU NR 243 / Vill NR 27
 
When Yakwe becomes the guy you have more confidence in at the line is scary ..

Maybe the low historical FT'S is tied to having more not so good players rathrr than good/great players and when your losing there is more stress to hit the FT...as well if it's not stressed in practice, that skill can go downhill.... like bowling or shooting darts...repetition for mastery of technique.
 
turnovers,stupid tunovers, turnovers
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With Marcus Lovett and Shamorie Ponds running the point there will huge improvement in the turnover department.
They can't however take free throws for their teammates.
 
We have all been over this before. SJU's basketball program has a weak pedigree when it comes to guys that can shoot the basketball. When you can go back 40 or more years and find only 5 or 6 high quality shooters, you have to expect that free throws will not be your strength. While some long range guys, for whatever reason, aren't good from the charity stripe, that is more of an anomaly. Having a very young team is another factor, as is dealing with fatigue.
 
When Max Hooper is one of the few, if any players to have the eligible number of shots and shoot 3 pointers over 40% you have a shooting problem in general.
 
We have all been over this before. SJU's basketball program has a weak pedigree when it comes to guys that can shoot the basketball. When you can go back 40 or more years and find only 5 or 6 high quality shooters, you have to expect that free throws will not be your strength. While some long range guys, for whatever reason, aren't good from the charity stripe, that is more of an anomaly. Having a very young team is another factor, as is dealing with fatigue.
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This is exactly what I was thinking Ray.
 
Next year team should be made to understand that if you can't shoot 65% or better, your minutes will be limited...do the work or sit
 
does anyone have stats if our ft's % has improved from 1st half of season to now ?
 
mjmaherjr wrote: does anyone have stats if our ft's % has improved from 1st half of season to now ?

Since you asked I believe our Free Throw percentage has gotten worse since the halfway mark.

Through our first 15 games we were shooting at a 64% clip. 217 for 339

In the last 14 games we are shooting at about a 61.3% clip. 200 for 326
 
mjmaherjr wrote: does anyone have stats if our ft's % has improved from 1st half of season to now ?

Since you asked I believe our Free Throw percentage has gotten worse since the halfway mark.

Through our first 15 games we were shooting at a 64% clip. 217 for 339

In the last 14 games we are shooting at about a 61.3% clip. 200 for 326
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Mussini got to the line some early in the year, which boosted our percentage. He was actually 2nd in the big east in percentage as of last weekend.

The rest of the team, has probably just been somewhat over 50% all year. Sima will probably always be bad at it, because his hands are huge, but this should be a top priority for everyone else this offseason (although Ellison probably does not need as much work as the others).
 
Next year team should be made to understand that if you can't shoot 65% or better, your minutes will be limited...do the work or sit
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I agree "3", but I would take it a bit further! I would not recruit a player who cannot shoot at least 65% from the charity line. It is too big a part of the game. Most of it I believe is lack of form, concentration, and the unwillingness to practice at it! Seth Davis had asked Mullin what was the most consecutive free throw attempts he ever made? The answer was 300! That's crazy good, but he worked at it! Believe me he worked at it!!!!!!!
 
Remember some stories that coaches wouldn't let the players leave the practice court until they made 10 free throws in a row. I guess Coach doesn't use that tactic. Maybe start in smaller increments. 2 or 3 in a row. Also use to be a guy that made 100+ in a row. Thought he worked with some teams 30 years ago. Got to do something to improve the percentage. Takes the wind out of the sails. Sometimes you are praying for 1 out of two.
 
Remember some stories that coaches wouldn't let the players leave the practice court until they made 10 free throws in a row. I guess Coach doesn't use that tactic. Maybe start in smaller increments. 2 or 3 in a row. Also use to be a guy that made 100+ in a row. Thought he worked with some teams 30 years ago. Got to do something to improve the percentage. Takes the wind out of the sails. Sometimes you are praying for 1 out of two.
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a lot of FT shooting is mental, but i'm with you here -- repetition, repetition, repetition. when a team shoots 10 for 24 from the line, there is a real problem. the next practice, mullin should've made each player take 500 FT's each. not saying you can make shaq into steve nash, but unacceptable that a team can't be hovering over the 70% mark.
 
mjmaherjr wrote: does anyone have stats if our ft's % has improved from 1st half of season to now ?

Since you asked I believe our Free Throw percentage has gotten worse since the halfway mark.

Through our first 15 games we were shooting at a 64% clip. 217 for 339

In the last 14 games we are shooting at about a 61.3% clip. 200 for 326
Click to expand...

great find. thanks !!
 
Remember some stories that coaches wouldn't let the players leave the practice court until they made 10 free throws in a row. I guess Coach doesn't use that tactic. Maybe start in smaller increments. 2 or 3 in a row. Also use to be a guy that made 100+ in a row. Thought he worked with some teams 30 years ago. Got to do something to improve the percentage. Takes the wind out of the sails. Sometimes you are praying for 1 out of two.
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a lot of FT shooting is mental, but i'm with you here -- repetition, repetition, repetition. when a team shoots 10 for 24 from the line, there is a real problem. the next practice, mullin should've made each player take 500 FT's each. not saying you can make shaq into steve nash, but unacceptable that a team can't be hovering over the 70% mark.
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That's what I don't get. Ft's are the easiest thing to practice with repetition. When we used to play when I was younger when practice was over in the beginning of the season you had to hit 5 in a row before you could leave. we were teenagers and they didn't want to be there all night so they didn't give us 10 but you kind of get the point which I agree with

I can understand kids just not good shooters in game time situations while being guarded because some just might not be that talented. But ft's ? Anyone can do that with a ton of practice no matter how athletic you are and these kids are college hoops players

Ft's' are one of the other big problems I have I just never harp on it for the most part

I thought this area would be the biggest area where Mullin and Richmond would shine with our kids. Heck those 2 are probably better shooters than most nba players minus seth curry still
 
Remember some stories that coaches wouldn't let the players leave the practice court until they made 10 free throws in a row. I guess Coach doesn't use that tactic. Maybe start in smaller increments. 2 or 3 in a row. Also use to be a guy that made 100+ in a row. Thought he worked with some teams 30 years ago. Got to do something to improve the percentage. Takes the wind out of the sails. Sometimes you are praying for 1 out of two.
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A lot of coaches run practices in stations. A lot of players can make free throws in succession, and you've probably seen stations where during practice guys go to a station to shoot 2 FTs to simulate a game situation. While you can work on form, and repetition means a lot, a lot of it comes down to what's between your ears when you step to the line in a game situation, which is why FTs down the stretch are increasingly more difficult to hit.

There are stories that Wilt Chamberlain would routinely take money from other Lakers, including Jerry West, in practice by outshooting them from the FT line. Chamberlain of course, was one of the worst FT shooters in history.
 
Individually, I always considered 75% "good", 80% "very good", 85%+ "great"

At a major D-1 team level, Without looking up, what do you think are the usual standards for a top 10 or Top 25 team ?
 
Remember some stories that coaches wouldn't let the players leave the practice court until they made 10 free throws in a row. I guess Coach doesn't use that tactic. Maybe start in smaller increments. 2 or 3 in a row. Also use to be a guy that made 100+ in a row. Thought he worked with some teams 30 years ago. Got to do something to improve the percentage. Takes the wind out of the sails. Sometimes you are praying for 1 out of two.
Click to expand...

A lot of coaches run practices in stations. A lot of players can make free throws in succession, and you've probably seen stations where during practice guys go to a station to shoot 2 FTs to simulate a game situation. While you can work on form, and repetition means a lot, a lot of it comes down to what's between your ears when you step to the line in a game situation, which is why FTs down the stretch are increasingly more difficult to hit.

There are stories that Wilt Chamberlain would routinely take money from other Lakers, including Jerry West, in practice by outshooting them from the FT line. Chamberlain of course, was one of the worst FT shooters in history.
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Chamberlain tied with most FTs in a game all-time, at 28/32, Adrian Dantley also had 28/29.
 
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