Enough with the Zone Defense Already!

[newsman13]

it's not just that we're suiting up six guys that's killing us...it's that other teams are practicing against elite subs and we're practicing against walkons and coaches.

so it'll take longer than we thought. that's the point. we have a staff of winners, so it's inevitable. duke wasn't a winner under coach k until year four. he was a winner at army so it was inevitable...like norm being a loser it was inevitable he'd leave us this mess.

we'll compete nationally in a couple of years. then there will be no turning back..

 

[bobre45]

 So we finally land a name coach and he has a good year and then brings in a top 3 recruiting class with a supposed PG who rang up Wilt Chmberlain numbers etc. and people are getting criticized for having high expectations? Why? Yes the crap hit the fan and expectations had to be greatly reduced but this wasn't forseeable. Maybe people are just tired of disappointment with this program but I don't think they deserve to be criticized for it.

 

Bro, you just admitted that everything went wrong, so what are you expecting?? does it suck things didn't come into fruition?? well duh of course, however since they didn't who's fault is it for keeping a certain expectation?? I for one am enjoying watching these guys play because I know that on any given night they could pull out an upset, and guess what bobby, no matter what team they play, with their current state it would be an upset...No team is in the sitch that this team is in...and if this was a few years in, I could understand disappointment in the program, but it's a year in with a bunch of unforeseeable issues....i now see why others dont bother to have a normal convo with you because you don't think logically about things.... 

 

So whose fault is it that things went south? The man in the moon? Well guess what Puppydog the coach has bottom line responsibility for the results. That's why he makes the big bucks. Norm Roberts had a lot of things go wrong too and he was eventually held responsible .He did work cheap though. We've gone through a couple of decades of reduced expectations and a lot of those empty seats were occupied by good fans who gave up the ghost. The last thing I need is some jerk criticizing me for telling it like it is. Sometimes the truth hurts and if you don't like it that's too bad. The fact is that right now nobody can give any guarantees that things will improve any time soon. As pllayers sign that will change but all you have now is a bunch of personal insults to back your so called position. You've just got to lay off those turds if you're going to try to get "logical" with me unless you have inside information on recruits that not even Lavin has.

 

[Della9250]

 I'd love to know what things went wrong for Norm Roberts that are so comparable to this season.

 

[beast of the east]

 I'd love to know what things went wrong for Norm Roberts that are so comparable to this season.

 

The first major thing that went wrong for him was accepting the job for which he had no resume. Kind of reminds me of someone in Washington.

 

[beast of the east]

 So we finally land a name coach and he has a good year and then brings in a top 3 recruiting class with a supposed PG who rang up Wilt Chmberlain numbers etc. and people are getting criticized for having high expectations? Why? Yes the crap hit the fan and expectations had to be greatly reduced but this wasn't forseeable. Maybe people are just tired of disappointment with this program but I don't think they deserve to be criticized for it.

 

Bro, you just admitted that everything went wrong, so what are you expecting?? does it suck things didn't come into fruition?? well duh of course, however since they didn't who's fault is it for keeping a certain expectation?? I for one am enjoying watching these guys play because I know that on any given night they could pull out an upset, and guess what bobby, no matter what team they play, with their current state it would be an upset...No team is in the sitch that this team is in...and if this was a few years in, I could understand disappointment in the program, but it's a year in with a bunch of unforeseeable issues....i now see why others dont bother to have a normal convo with you because you don't think logically about things.... 

 

What do you build before you build a house?

The foundation.

These 6 players are the foundation. Better things to come.

So whose fault is it that things went south? The man in the moon? Well guess what Puppydog the coach has bottom line responsibility for the results. That's why he makes the big bucks. Norm Roberts had a lot of things go wrong too and he was eventually held responsible .He did work cheap though. We've gone through a couple of decades of reduced expectations and a lot of those empty seats were occupied by good fans who gave up the ghost. The last thing I need is some jerk criticizing me for telling it like it is. Sometimes the truth hurts and if you don't like it that's too bad. The fact is that right now nobody can give any guarantees that things will improve any time soon. As pllayers sign that will change but all you have now is a bunch of personal insults to back your so called position. You've just got to lay off those turds if you're going to try to get "logical" with me unless you have inside information on recruits that not even Lavin has.

 

 

[Class of 72]

 I'd love to know what things went wrong for Norm Roberts that are so comparable to this season.

 

The first major thing that went wrong for him was accepting the job for which he had no resume. Kind of reminds me of someone in Washington.

 

FYI, he is no longer in Washington thank God!

George Bush's legacy
The frat boy ships out
Few people will mourn the departure of the 43rd president
Jan 15th 2009 | from the print edition

HE LEAVES the White House as one of the least popular and most divisive presidents in American history. At home, his approval rating has been stuck in the 20s for months; abroad, George Bush has presided over the most catastrophic collapse in America’s reputation since the second world war. The American economy is in deep recession, brought on by a crisis that forced Mr Bush to preside over huge and unpopular bail-outs.

America is embroiled in two wars, one of which Mr Bush launched against the tide of world opinion. The Bush family name, once among the most illustrious in American political life, is now so tainted that Jeb, George’s younger brother, recently decided not to run for the Senate from Florida. A Bush relative describes family gatherings as “funeral wakes”.

Few people would have predicted this litany of disasters when Mr Bush ran for the presidency in 2000. True, the 2000 election was likely to be divisive because of the peculiar arithmetic of the outcome (Mr Bush lost the popular vote to Al Gore by 500,000 votes, then won a disputed recount in Florida by a few hundred).

 

[beast of the east]

 So we finally land a name coach and he has a good year and then brings in a top 3 recruiting class with a supposed PG who rang up Wilt Chmberlain numbers etc. and people are getting criticized for having high expectations? Why? Yes the crap hit the fan and expectations had to be greatly reduced but this wasn't forseeable. Maybe people are just tired of disappointment with this program but I don't think they deserve to be criticized for it.

 

Who would have taken Nurideen Lindsay besides Lavin - almost any top program.

Who would take him after he walked away after 9 games. Rider.

Not everything works out. If you had 4 positions to fill you can be more selective. When you start your recruiting season with a team whose high point over 6 years was a 1st round exit in the NIT, AND 9 scholarships to fill, you have a lot of ground to make up.

The class coming in was so touted that Polee bolted. Pelle, Sampson, and Garrett were gambles worth taking in order to sign the best talent available.

What's so hard about that to figure out? I can only guess what high executive position you command that you seek such perfection from a coach taking a program out of the dumper.

 

[bobre45]

 So we finally land a name coach and he has a good year and then brings in a top 3 recruiting class with a supposed PG who rang up Wilt Chmberlain numbers etc. and people are getting criticized for having high expectations? Why? Yes the crap hit the fan and expectations had to be greatly reduced but this wasn't forseeable. Maybe people are just tired of disappointment with this program but I don't think they deserve to be criticized for it.

 

Who would have taken Nurideen Lindsay besides Lavin - almost any top program.

Who would take him after he walked away after 9 games. Rider.

Not everything works out. If you had 4 positions to fill you can be more selective. When you start your recruiting season with a team whose high point over 6 years was a 1st round exit in the NIT, AND 9 scholarships to fill, you have a lot of ground to make up.

The class coming in was so touted that Polee bolted. Pelle, Sampson, and Garrett were gambles worth taking in order to sign the best talent available.

What's so hard about that to figure out? I can only guess what high executive position you command that you seek such perfection from a coach taking a program out of the dumper.

 

Well, for openers Norm inherited a complete disaster of a team and a legacy that was totally in the trash. Steve inherited an NCAA team with nine seniors. There is a sea of difference there. We just didn't sign enough qualifying guys at the right positions and it cost us dearly this year. We did land a couple of stars but Norm did sign Hardy, DJ, Horne, Burrell, Brownlee and even an under the radar type like Evans who over-achieved his way to a pro contract. He also had injuries with Showtime and and Boothe and never figured out the PG situation. You don't have to be perfect to fill a roster. Steve's bad luck (not healthwise) was not unique and some of our problems were avoidable.with a little better fallback position. A few role players would have really helped this year.

 

[Joe]

 So we finally land a name coach and he has a good year and then brings in a top 3 recruiting class with a supposed PG who rang up Wilt Chmberlain numbers etc. and people are getting criticized for having high expectations? Why? Yes the crap hit the fan and expectations had to be greatly reduced but this wasn't forseeable. Maybe people are just tired of disappointment with this program but I don't think they deserve to be criticized for it.

 

Who would have taken Nurideen Lindsay besides Lavin - almost any top program.

Who would take him after he walked away after 9 games. Rider.

Not everything works out. If you had 4 positions to fill you can be more selective. When you start your recruiting season with a team whose high point over 6 years was a 1st round exit in the NIT, AND 9 scholarships to fill, you have a lot of ground to make up.

The class coming in was so touted that Polee bolted. Pelle, Sampson, and Garrett were gambles worth taking in order to sign the best talent available.

What's so hard about that to figure out? I can only guess what high executive position you command that you seek such perfection from a coach taking a program out of the dumper.

 

Well, for openers Norm inherited a complete disaster of a team and a legacy that was totally in the trash. Steve inherited an NCAA team with nine seniors. There is a sea of difference there. We just didn't sign enough qualifying guys at the right positions and it cost us dearly this year. We did land a couple of stars but Norm did sign Hardy, DJ, Horne, Burrell, Brownlee and even an under the radar type like Evans who over-achieved his way to a pro contract. He also had injuries with Showtime and and Boothe and never figured out the PG situation. You don't have to be perfect to fill a roster. Steve's bad luck (not healthwise) was not unique and some of our problems were avoidable.with a little better fallback position. A few role players would have really helped this year.

 

Lavin didn't inherit an NCAA team. He and the staff helped make them one.

 

[jumbo_peanuts]

Their is a guy named Boeheim up at Syracuse, he has over 800 wins in college basketball playing primarily zone.. I believe it works. 

 

.......and Boeheim never did it with 5 freshmen and a JC as the 6th man.

Some observations from tonight:
Our guys had no legs and it showed in the rebounding and defensive rotations.

For the Gift haters, first half of the season he had a few double-doubles. This is the same GG that scored 18 points and 10 rebounds against what I think is the best team in the country - Kentucky. A week ago he scored 15 and 5 rebounds against DePaul. His legs are gone. There is no offense run through him. He touches the ball almost by accident now as Greene looks for only Moe and D'A when he himself is not taking a shot.

The Hall hit 62% from BOTH 2 and 3 pt line. Has not happened all year----won't happen again. Wide open prayer shots went in --- 9 straight 3's at one point. 34% three point shooters do not become 62% shooters because of the opposition----lady luck plays a big part.

The Hall has 5 scoring options on the floor while SJ has two. Both of our guys were ineffective. Moe once again convinced me Bobre and his friend are correct---tonight was another NBA first round worthy game. P.S. he and the rest of the team played like tired and confused freshmen tonight.

Seton Hall had a very good balance of experienced upperclassmen especially Theodore and very good freshmen.

 

I agree about the legs, but GG is overmatched at this level. Statistically it looks like he was tearing it up at UK, but that was not the case in reality. He was like a kid playing against his big brother...he got his shot thrown back at him and it was like a joke to UK.

He does well against lesser competition, but he's undersized and overmatched against legit frontlines. I love the wahe takes charges, though, and his energy. He's best served coming off our bench and giving 10-12 minutes. The minutes GG plays next year will really be indicative of how good we are IMO. If he's playign 20 mpg, we are in trouble.

As for our zone, it simply cannot be judged at this point. These kids are too tired to rotate and closeout properly. They were even worse in man-to-man and Pope and Theodore would have gone for 25 a piece if we went man all game.

It boils down to starting five freshmen, playing with no size, and playing with six players is just not fair. It's a miracle every conference game hasn't gone like last night.

 

With all respect to GG, its not really fair to ever compare his game to how he played against Kentucky, whether good or bad. Kentucky has by far the best frontline in all of college basketball, which includes what will probably be the no. 1 overall pick in the draft. The majority of teams are going to struggle inside against that team. When playing against Kentucky, just about every post player in the country looks like a a boy among men.

Is he in over his head? It's hard to really say. Let's remember, every single one of these players were recruited for being athletes that were high motor/energy players that could run the floor well. With only 6 players, we are forced to play more of a half court style, and are not able to run as much as the staff initially anticipated. Next year, when we add a few more recruits, we can have a more fast paced, running style offense, with some more breaks for our players. And in that situation, I feel that GG can be relatively effective.