Chasing Ghosts

[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=350380]I question Frans comment about not really wanting the SJ job, big step up from Manhattan.[/quote]

Fran still grates about how his SJU tenure ended.
He has some legitimate points about how SJU was run (until this current coach?!?), but he should also look in the mirror.
Because of that, he eats sour grapes daily when 'SJU' is a topic.
 
At the Brooklyn Old Timers dinner a few weeks ago, Fran said that he wished he had better communication skills when dealing with Fr. Harrington.

He also said that he really had the program headed in the right direction when he left

Also said that his time in New Mexico was like being in the witness protection program

As an aside, wonder how things would have turned out if we hired Bob McKillop way back when.

He certainly wanted to coach at St. John's.
 
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[quote="MITStorm" post=350389]saw the same thing Fordham96 and can only think it was a typo...perhaps North Carolina State???[/quote]

Out of that whole piece, that is the one thing had me shaking my head in disbelief.
 
[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=350380]I question Frans comment about not really wanting the SJ job, big step up from Manhattan.[/quote]

Its not that the St. John's job wasn't a step up from Manhattan, its that it was not the bigger job he really wanted. All you have to do is look back at the whole situation. He thought he was destined for something bigger on a bigger ''ra-ra" campus and fan base.

The Arizona State job wasn't even the one he really wanted, it was the Texas job that went to Rick Barnes he wanted but didn't get to sniff at.
 
Before he was fired there was a wire out in the NYC basketball community that Fran was a racist. He may or nor may not be one but parents of some of his African American players went to STJ administration to complain about his treatment of their sons. This was widely known in the BB community.
 
[quote="jerseyshorejohnny" post=350387]At the Brooklyn Old Timers dinner a few weeks ago, Fran said that he wished he had better communication skills when dealing with Fr. Harrington.

He also said that he really had the program headed in the right direction when he left

Also said that his time in New Mexico was like being in the witness protection program

As an aside, wonder how things would have turned out if we hired Bob McKillop way back when.

He certainly wanted to coach at St. John's.[/quote]

Thanks JSJ
I think we are finally in good hands with Mike Anderson after a long and winding road...

And still they lead me back
to the long and winding road
You left me standing here
A long, long time ago

all the best
 
[quote="SJU85" post=350392][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=350380]I question Frans comment about not really wanting the SJ job, big step up from Manhattan.[/quote]

Its not that the St. John's job wasn't a step up from Manhattan, its that it was not the bigger job he really wanted. All you have to do is look back at the whole situation. He thought he was destined for something bigger on a bigger ''ra-ra" campus and fan base.

The Arizona State job wasn't even the one he really wanted, it was the Texas job that went to Rick Barnes he wanted but didn't get to sniff at.[/quote]

The Texas job didn't happen until after he was canned, though. Jarvis left GW for us, Penders left Texas for GW (his longtime friend was the AD, so that's why he took what was a downturn, statuswise), and Barnes got the Texas job.

The job was never open while Fran was here, although there were rumors that, if Penders went pro, he would be interested. I think his name might have also cropped up there, if Penders were to leave for us (this is after we had fired Brian).

EDIT: Penders actually did "resign" from Texas, about six weeks before Fraschilla was let go. SJU85 is correct. I do think that's the job he really wanted, but I don't think they had much interest in him. Arizona St. did.
 
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[quote="SJU61982" post=350399][quote="SJU85" post=350392][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=350380]I question Frans comment about not really wanting the SJ job, big step up from Manhattan.[/quote]

Its not that the St. John's job wasn't a step up from Manhattan, its that it was not the bigger job he really wanted. All you have to do is look back at the whole situation. He thought he was destined for something bigger on a bigger ''ra-ra" campus and fan base.

The Arizona State job wasn't even the one he really wanted, it was the Texas job that went to Rick Barnes he wanted but didn't get to sniff at.[/quote]

The Texas job didn't happen until after he was canned, though. Jarvis left GW for us, Penders left Texas for GW (his longtime friend was the AD, so that's why he took what was a downturn, statuswise), and Barnes got the Texas job.

The job was never open while Fran was here, although there were rumors that, if Penders went pro, he would be interested. I think his name might have also cropped up there, if Penders were to leave for us (this is after we had fired Brian).

EDIT: Penders actually did "resign" from Texas, about six weeks before Fraschilla was let go. SJU85 is correct. I do think that's the job he really wanted, but I don't think they had much interest in him. Arizona St. did.[/quote]

Thanks for the edit. You are correct that they did not have much (I don't think they had any) interest in him but Arizona State did. But I don't think he really had much interest in that job and was more or less looking for more from St. John's. He got considerably less than what he bargained for.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=350379][quote="bamafan" post=350374]One disagreement I have was at the beginning of the article where the point was made that Lavin started out on fire on the recruiting trail and during his second year that was derailed by his health problems. The fact of the matter is while Lavin gave up bench coaching he said he was happy to be able to concentrate on recruiting and other coaches were even actually complaining that he was gaining an unfair advantage by this set up. For whatever reasons recruiting did fall off after a great start.[/quote]

Lavin was going thru some personal issues at the end of his tenure.[/quote]

I've said this on several occasions, and have it on good authority. Not only was he dealing with personal issues, but he still wasn't quite "all the way back" physically. A few people may take it as being an excuse or excuses, but more like reality if you ask me.

The other thing is as they state winning 2 out of 3 NC's like Nova has is not realistic. Of course 10 years ago that would not have been realistic for NOVA either.
Click to expand...

Something else I've also said a few times.

But as jobs go they are probably a little behind Georgetown in terms of history and expectations. Certainly AHEAD of Providence and SHU. So there is little excuse there.
Click to expand...

Agree.
 
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I thought the story was he showed his junk to the team during a practice. Sounds more “old school” than racist
 
[quote="Joe Ambrosino " post=352182]I thought the story was he showed his junk to the team during a practice. Sounds more “old school” than racist[/quote]

I think that is right. Parents were correct to complain as my recollection was he told them they didn’t (ahem) have any. If I remember correctly SJU higher ups were not happy when he flirted with or floated idea of going somewhere bigger. It was their understanding that he had told them this was his dream job when hired. At the time SJU wanted someone who was going to be around awhile like Louie. That is old school today but not then.
Now for the racism part who knows a man’s heart. But he was a good recruiter and successfully recruited several high profile African American players. He also got other jobs. If that was found by other schools I doubt they would risk a hire for someone like that.
 
[quote="jerseyshorejohnny" post=350387]At the Brooklyn Old Timers dinner a few weeks ago, Fran said that he wished he had better communication skills when dealing with Fr. Harrington.

He also said that he really had the program headed in the right direction when he left

Also said that his time in New Mexico was like being in the witness protection program

As an aside, wonder how things would have turned out if we hired Bob McKillop way back when.

He certainly wanted to coach at St. John's.[/quote]



Fran was doing a very good job at St Johns. The NYC basketball community embraced him. One thing I heard was that Dick Vitale was encouraging Fran to ask for more money and look at supposedly bigger programs.

When Fran was at Manhattan, he would have kissed the behind of every poster on this board to get the St. Johns job. He had the program headed in the right direction. He was a relentless recruiter. He was after a couple of kids that played for me and maintained constant contact. The summer of 1997, Ron Rutledge followed us to Vegas and LA, with Fran taking in a couple of games also. All he had to do was be patient and I honestly believe that things would have worked out for him at St. Johns.

It was like me wanting to get with Halle Berry, and once we got together, I started cheating, LMAO. The Grass Ain't Always Greener.
 
[quote="panther2" post=352185][quote="jerseyshorejohnny" post=350387]At the Brooklyn Old Timers dinner a few weeks ago, Fran said that he wished he had better communication skills when dealing with Fr. Harrington.

He also said that he really had the program headed in the right direction when he left

Also said that his time in New Mexico was like being in the witness protection program

As an aside, wonder how things would have turned out if we hired Bob McKillop way back when.

He certainly wanted to coach at St. John's.[/quote]



Fran was doing a very good job at St Johns. The NYC basketball community embraced him. One thing I heard was that Dick Vitale was encouraging Fran to ask for more money and look at supposedly bigger programs.

When Fran was at Manhattan, he would have kissed the behind of every poster on this board to get the St. Johns job. He had the program headed in the right direction. He was a relentless recruiter. He was after a couple of kids that played for me and maintained constant contact. The summer of 1997, Ron Rutledge followed us to Vegas and LA, with Fran taking in a couple of games also. All he had to do was be patient and I honestly believe that things would have worked out for him at St. Johns.

It was like me wanting to get with Halle Berry, and once we got together, I started cheating, LMAO. The Grass Ain't Always Greener.[/quote]
Vitale doesn't seem like the type of guy that would do what you heard. Fran has said that he wanted to bring his sons up in a college town environment (or something to that affect). He has spent most of his time in BIG 12 country and if not mistaken lives in Texas. Too bad it didn't work out but to each his own I guess.
 
[quote="panther2" post=352185][quote="jerseyshorejohnny" post=350387]At the Brooklyn Old Timers dinner a few weeks ago, Fran said that he wished he had better communication skills when dealing with Fr. Harrington.

He also said that he really had the program headed in the right direction when he left

Also said that his time in New Mexico was like being in the witness protection program

As an aside, wonder how things would have turned out if we hired Bob McKillop way back when.

He certainly wanted to coach at St. John's.[/quote]



Fran was doing a very good job at St Johns. The NYC basketball community embraced him. One thing I heard was that Dick Vitale was encouraging Fran to ask for more money and look at supposedly bigger programs.

When Fran was at Manhattan, he would have kissed the behind of every poster on this board to get the St. Johns job. He had the program headed in the right direction. He was a relentless recruiter. He was after a couple of kids that played for me and maintained constant contact. The summer of 1997, Ron Rutledge followed us to Vegas and LA, with Fran taking in a couple of games also. All he had to do was be patient and I honestly believe that things would have worked out for him at St. Johns.

It was like me wanting to get with Halle Berry, and once we got together, I started cheating, LMAO. The Grass Ain't Always Greener.[/quote]
Certainly not when it comes to Halle Berry.
 
[quote="redken" post=352188][quote="panther2" post=352185][quote="jerseyshorejohnny" post=350387]At the Brooklyn Old Timers dinner a few weeks ago, Fran said that he wished he had better communication skills when dealing with Fr. Harrington.

He also said that he really had the program headed in the right direction when he left

Also said that his time in New Mexico was like being in the witness protection program

As an aside, wonder how things would have turned out if we hired Bob McKillop way back when.

He certainly wanted to coach at St. John's.[/quote]



Fran was doing a very good job at St Johns. The NYC basketball community embraced him. One thing I heard was that Dick Vitale was encouraging Fran to ask for more money and look at supposedly bigger programs.

When Fran was at Manhattan, he would have kissed the behind of every poster on this board to get the St. Johns job. He had the program headed in the right direction. He was a relentless recruiter. He was after a couple of kids that played for me and maintained constant contact. The summer of 1997, Ron Rutledge followed us to Vegas and LA, with Fran taking in a couple of games also. All he had to do was be patient and I honestly believe that things would have worked out for him at St. Johns.

It was like me wanting to get with Halle Berry, and once we got together, I started cheating, LMAO. The Grass Ain't Always Greener.[/quote]
Certainly not when it comes to Halle Berry.[/quote]
https://nypost.com/2015/11/17/why-halle-berry-is-to-blame-for-her-disastrous-love-life/
 
[quote="panther2" post=352185][quote="jerseyshorejohnny" post=350387]At the Brooklyn Old Timers dinner a few weeks ago, Fran said that he wished he had better communication skills when dealing with Fr. Harrington.

He also said that he really had the program headed in the right direction when he left

Also said that his time in New Mexico was like being in the witness protection program

As an aside, wonder how things would have turned out if we hired Bob McKillop way back when.

He certainly wanted to coach at St. John's.[/quote]



It was like me wanting to get with Halle Berry, and once we got together, I started cheating, LMAO. The Grass Ain't Always Greener.[/quote] Especially with waxing :)
 
The idea of Fran being a racist & word being "out" to the NYC basketball community is BS. At that time I was in contact with scores of PSAL-CHSAA & "Community" coaches through my association with the "ABCD" All America Camp. I heard that Fran was "tough", "cursed", and his some of his "actions" inappropriate". NEVER once did I ever hear Race being an issue. Prior to St. John's Fran had been @Manhattan College, Ohio University with HC Danny Nee & Rhode Island with HC , Claude English who happened to be a black man. I knew those coaches, many of the players who went there, several of the parents of the black players & NEVER once did I hear any negative talk about Fran & certainly ZERO, nada, nothing about RACE.
 
Fran told Ty Grant's mom that her son wasn't good enough to play more. So if there were whispers about parents being upset, that's a parent to start with. Ty obviously proved him wrong, though.
 
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