Chad Ford's 2015 Big Board - No Jordan

[Marillac]

I am kind of shocked that Jordan hasn't even appeared on a single list and we are just a few months away from the start of his soph season. Semaj Christon was a projected first rounder halfway through his freshman year.

i still think Jordan makes his way onto these lists, but he will not be a first rounder and likely won't be an early second rounder either.

Don't know why you'd be shocked. He had a decent year last year, but wasn't close to players like Christon or Ennis or Cotton, just to pick a few. He has potential but he is going to have to show more of a game if he wants to be a first round pick. Among other things he is going to have to develop a better outside shot and show the ability to take over a game, at least for a stretch. That may be tough for him to do with Harrison around, though.

I am captain of the Jordan has almost no shot at being a first rounder next year club, but the kid does have some undeniable first rounder abilities: hands, size, athletic ability, defensive potential, etc. That potential alone should get him a mention SOMEWHERE I'd think.

The fact is Jordan became extremely predictable by the end of last season. He only went right, and he almost always kept it himself. He had very few dumpoffs at the rim or wraparound passes on the baseline like most PGs. He really didn't drive and kick that much either. Of course he wasn't dishing to KD or Lebron--and Sanchez/Sampson/Pointer floated more than Charlie after drinking Willy Wonka's soda--but still.

Christon going where he did in the draft has to be sobering for Jordan. Christon was shooting almost 40% from three, had great size and defensive potential, was more polished, was regarded as top prospect for longer, proved he could run an offense, and had no real question marks.

 

[lawmanfan]

I am kind of shocked that Jordan hasn't even appeared on a single list and we are just a few months away from the start of his soph season. Semaj Christon was a projected first rounder halfway through his freshman year.

i still think Jordan makes his way onto these lists, but he will not be a first rounder and likely won't be an early second rounder either.

Don't know why you'd be shocked. He had a decent year last year, but wasn't close to players like Christon or Ennis or Cotton, just to pick a few. He has potential but he is going to have to show more of a game if he wants to be a first round pick. Among other things he is going to have to develop a better outside shot and show the ability to take over a game, at least for a stretch. That may be tough for him to do with Harrison around, though.

I am captain of the Jordan has almost no shot at being a first rounder next year club, but the kid does have some undeniable first rounder abilities: hands, size, athletic ability, defensive potential, etc. That potential alone should get him a mention SOMEWHERE I'd think.

The fact is Jordan became extremely predictable by the end of last season. He only went right, and he almost always kept it himself. He had very few dumpoffs at the rim or wraparound passes on the baseline like most PGs. He really didn't drive and kick that much either. Of course he wasn't dishing to KD or Lebron--and Sanchez/Sampson/Pointer floated more than Charlie after drinking Willy Wonka's soda--but still.

Christon going where he did in the draft has to be sobering for Jordan. Christon was shooting almost 40% from three, had great size and defensive potential, was more polished, was regarded as top prospect for longer, proved he could run an offense, and had no real question marks.

Agree 100%

 

[Redzone]

austour. Please read my post. The whole mid major point (which was missed) is that StJ should be in a mid major conference we cant recruit, we cant compete and we are in over our collective heads. Yes a confernce is labeled mid-major and my point....thats where we belong.

 

[jumbo_peanuts]

austour. Please read my post. The whole mid major point (which was missed) is that StJ should be in a mid major conference we cant recruit, we cant compete and we are in over our collective heads. Yes a confernce is labeled mid-major and my point....thats where we belong.

It's not our inability to recruit that hurts us. I think Lavin has done a fine job in that regard. I think its player development that hurts us, and that is caused by a variety of reasons.

 

[Redzone]

Good point. Proves just getting good players isn't enough. These have been hearlded recruiting classes but never seem to pan out as such. It always seems to be the same, pass around the perimeter while the defense watches us then panic with under 10 sec on the clock.

 

[simplyred]

Didn't we just finish tied for 3rd in our conference?

 

[Redzone]

sure we did. Through attrition. Boasting a 3rd place finish in this conference with the StJ fan base expectations is not something to wave a flag about it just proves we didn't belong in the Real Big East. The conference is significantly weaker 3rd place will not & did not get it done (with all due respect to the NIT). As they say...We are what our results say we are.

 

[simplyred]

I thought your point was that we don't belong in the current Big East, not the old one. I misunderstood.

 

[Class of 72]

I thought your point was that we don't belong in the current Big East, not the old one. I misunderstood.

If Redzone actually makes a "positive" point please point it out for us! How many reincarnations has RealFan had on this board? If the current Big East is mid-major then the ACC and SEC had to fall into the same category last year. Is the AAC mid major? That is the conference that won it all last season!

 

[JackofVirginia]

Good point. Proves just getting good players isn't enough. These have been hearlded recruiting classes but never seem to pan out as such. It always seems to be the same, pass around the perimeter while the defense watches us then panic with under 10 sec on the clock.

We are not getting the athlete who can score from outside, rather the one who scores off fastbreaks and layups in high school. Take Dom for instance, obviously scored on steals and breaks.

 

[Ray Morgan]

Good point. Proves just getting good players isn't enough. These have been hearlded recruiting classes but never seem to pan out as such. It always seems to be the same, pass around the perimeter while the defense watches us then panic with under 10 sec on the clock.

We are not getting the athlete who can score from outside, rather the one who scores off fastbreaks and layups in high school. Take Dom for instance, obviously scored on steals and breaks.

That's a great point. When you hit the big time, the purely athletic edge these guys enjoyed in high school narrows greatly or disappears. The game has changed, but SJU's recruiting hasn't. We fill the rosters with a lot of athletic tweeners, then watch them have problems in the half court. The major programs get athletes that are more polished and bigger. Some coaches get players that may be less gifted athletically, but are smart, team oriented players that can shoot lights out. If you get the type of player Lavin gets, you better develop them. Which one of his recruits showed notable improvement? Dom? Sampson? Obekpa? Anyone?

 

[salty dog]

I thought your point was that we don't belong in the current Big East, not the old one. I misunderstood.

If Redzone actually makes a "positive" point please point it out for us! How many reincarnations has RealFan had on this board? If the current Big East is mid-major then the ACC and SEC had to fall into the same category last year. Is the AAC mid major? That is the conference that won it all last season!

Correct, these fans are delusional. Tied for third in the league and at one point were the hottest team until a banked three killed us in Villanova, with the Big man hobbling. What do these people want. Meanwhile Kansas. Syracuse and Carolina went out with a whimper. I wonder what their true fans thought.? Especially sprinkled with McD All Americans.

 

[Redzone]

Made several positive (accurate) points if you choose to buddy up with the kool aid drinking kiss butt bretheren on the "inside' of this board so be it. StJ dominance or near dominance of any conference is over. Don't care about Syracuse or NC etc. care about StJ and they have been an underachieving mess. Somewhat "delusional" you might say in their expectations. Ban me whatever the reality is what it is. see you in March in 3rd place after we once again underachieve and lose to a lesser opponent in first round of the NIT. Now lets get busy working on that perimeter passing game.

 

[otis]

Didn't we just finish tied for 3rd in our conference?

Yup... StJohn's finished the 2013/14 season in a 3 way tie for 3d place with the 5th best overall record in the 10 team conference with no real signature wins.

 

[simplyred]

Didn't we just finish tied for 3rd in our conference?

Yup... StJohn's finished the 2013/14 season in a 3 way tie for 3d place with the 5th best overall record in the 10 team conference with no real signature wins.

So do the 5 teams that finished below us (including Georgetown) belong in a mid-major conference too?

 

[Redzone]

yes they do....OK!?!? (esp Seton Hall & DePaul time has passed them by too).
Back to the point.........We are talking StJ aren't we? But since you brought it up. I would say G'Town has had significantly more success than us the last 10 years if you really want to use them as your example 3 reg season championships, 7 ncaa appearances, 1 conference tournament champ, 2 sweet 16, 1 elite 8 and 1 final 4.
Would you sign for that for the next 10 years for StJ??

 

[beast of the east]

Made several positive (accurate) points if you choose to buddy up with the kool aid drinking kiss butt bretheren on the "inside' of this board so be it. StJ dominance or near dominance of any conference is over. Don't care about Syracuse or NC etc. care about StJ and they have been an underachieving mess. Somewhat "delusional" you might say in their expectations. Ban me whatever the reality is what it is. see you in March in 3rd place after we once again underachieve and lose to a lesser opponent in first round of the NIT. Now lets get busy working on that perimeter passing game.

What if aren't really that useful, but I'd asked you where you think we'd have finished if we had Harkless on last year's roster? I'm going out on a limb and say instead of tied for 3rd we challenged for the top spot in conference. That's not Koolaid, I just think it's a reality. We were good enough to compete in most games, and not good enough to win enough of them.

The point isn't whether we had Harkless or not. The point is that I believe we were just one very good player away from being an NCAA team. No matter what anyone thinks, the truth is that last years team simply did not come up big in the last 5 minutes of nearly every game.

 

[Redzone]

You are correct with Harkless we are better. But alas he left and any top tier player we do happen to get will also leave its how CBB is now. We are not one of the Big Dawgs that can recruit the top players year after year to compensate for player losses we lose Harkless and we are done. This board is fixated on what could have been and comparing to other programs ie: the G'town reference. Look in the mirror. We are not deep enough to compete we get fringe players look who we go after for the most part. and yes this is a generality but...When the athletes choice is for example UConn, Syracuse, NC, we lose we shouldn't even be going after them, it looks good on the board but it rarely pans out and when it does our system hides them. If a recruit is looking at Fordham, Rhode Island, Seton Hall or Holy Cross we seem to win. And I repeat I know this is a generality but it is far to common a scenario. "We" can't fill the Garden(UConn,Syracuse & Duke help us do that) with StJ fans, we barely sellout Carneseca and our performance is erratic at best throughout the year. It has been going on long enough to say this is where/who we are. Just an average program in a now average league.

 

[GardenCity62]

My comment is out of place for the Jordan topic but I feel it is an important part of recruitment.The fan support the team receives has reached the pathetic point. At the beginning of last year the teams chances of a good year was somewhat optimistic and the early CA games couldn't draw 4,000. If it is not UCONN,SYR, or Duke the MSG numbers are not much better.
The NIT was the worst. We can say fans were disappointed but 1000 fans when students were charged 5 dollars and many only had to walk across campus indicates that while we can debate the pros and cons of Lavin the attendance is a much bigger problem.

 

[redfazed]

My comment is out of place for the Jordan topic but I feel it is an important part of recruitment.The fan support the team receives has reached the pathetic point. At the beginning of last year the teams chances of a good year was somewhat optimistic and the early CA games couldn't draw 4,000. If it is not UCONN,SYR, or Duke the MSG numbers are not much better.
The NIT was the worst. We can say fans were disappointed but 1000 fans when students were charged 5 dollars and many only had to walk across campus indicates that while we can debate the pros and cons of Lavin the attendance is a much bigger problem.

Win and they will come.