CBS coaches poll disses Lavin as being overrated

 And this gets thrown around far too often. I don't do it that much so I don't feel bad saying I always thought he was shady (recruiting).
Click to expand...
 

Crean?
Nah. Otherwise they would have been better a lot sooner :)
At Marquette he just got solid guys. Nothing over the top.
Click to expand...
 

Fair point but everybody has 1 or 2 guys they just have bad feelings about. For whatever reason he rubs me the wrong way
Click to expand...
 

True
Who on that list 'doesn't rub you the wrong way. If you say Scott Drew I might have to ban you ;)
 
 And this gets thrown around far too often. I don't do it that much so I don't feel bad saying I always thought he was shady (recruiting).
Click to expand...
 

Crean?
Nah. Otherwise they would have been better a lot sooner :)
At Marquette he just got solid guys. Nothing over the top.
Click to expand...
 

Fair point but everybody has 1 or 2 guys they just have bad feelings about. For whatever reason he rubs me the wrong way
Click to expand...
 

True
Who on that list 'doesn't rub you the wrong way. If you say Scott Drew I might have to ban you ;)
Click to expand...
 

Haha I'm in luck considering i think he is sleezier than the baby Pete Rose and Don King would produce
 
True
Who on that list 'doesn't rub you the wrong way. If you say Scott Drew I might have to ban you ;)
Click to expand...
 

Haha I'm in luck considering i think he is sleezier than the baby Pete Rose and Don King would produce
Click to expand...
 

Lol! That's one baby picture I would love to see.
 
 And this gets thrown around far too often. I don't do it that much so I don't feel bad saying I always thought he was shady (recruiting).
Click to expand...
 

Crean?
Nah. Otherwise they would have been better a lot sooner :)
At Marquette he just got solid guys. Nothing over the top.
Click to expand...
 

Fair point but everybody has 1 or 2 guys they just have bad feelings about. For whatever reason he rubs me the wrong way
Click to expand...
 
Just curious-does the coaching tree he came from-Tom Izzo of Mich St rub you the wrong way also.
 
I wonder what beverage was being consumed as the list was being put together? 
 
Man, never have I seen so much brouhaha over a relatively innocuous blog post.

First, lets remember that this was not a reader poll or fan poll. Parrish and staff actually asked coaches off the record "Who do you think is the most overrated coach" .

Like they say in the article they think the responses ended up being "Who do you think is the most overrated X and O's guy" but it is clear it is more "Who are you most jealous of in your coaching fraternity".

Each of these guys has some quality/benefit/advantage where they excel(and the media lets it be known) at something that other coaches wish they had. For Jay Wright its the way he dresses, for Rick Barnes its the amount he gets paid while providing relatively poor ROI, for Drew its how he's able to get away with whatever he is getting away with to get high ranked kids to go that hellhole that is Waco, for Uncle Roy its that he's never had a job where he had to "work" to get players, for Howland it's being able to live in the same city as Traczok and Austour, etc.....

In either case Lav fits the bill in that the feeling is he's a good but not great tactician but no one has ever said he's a great tactician so how does that make him overrated? What it really is is that based upon IMVHO is how his personality, his long standing relationship with the worldwide leader, his being employed in the center of the universe (media and otherwise), his cancer backstory and his extremely attractive wife have afforded him to get media exposure that is probably a bit more than his rivals think is appropriate or can stomach given the school he works for. I'm not denigrating STJ by those last few words but just taking a realistic, out of NY look at where STJ's is seen in the national hoops landscape today, rightly or wrongly.
 
It is a compliment.

Again they are overrated because they are being compared against the greatest in the game. Would you rather be in that category or have a complete nobody as coach who cannot be considered overrated because nobody cares about him or his program?

Think of it this way. Derek Jeter. For years Jeter was considered "overrated." Why? Because if you looked at that 10 years contract he signed for $189 million it was comparable to what Manny, Arod, Vlad Guerrero and Bonds were making. Those guys were sluggers who were putting up ridiculous numbers. Because Jeter was not that type of player but was getting paid somewhat like he was he was considered "overrated." But overrated against who? 4 of the greatest sluggers you will EVER SEE IN YOUR LIFETIME.

In other words Jeter was and is still considered a 1st Ballot HOFer who is one of the best to play at his position but was "overrated" relative to some of the greatest players in the history of the game who make $20 Mil/year. Overrated is relevent to who you are being compared to. Jeter is not being compared to a .240 hitter who hits 9th for the KC Royals. That would be an insult.

Is Lavin overrated compared to Mike Rice? Kevin Willard? Mick Cronin? Etc. Uh NOOOO. Nobody cares enough about those guys to consider them overrated. Just like nobody considers the .240 shortstop overrated because nobody cares about him either, but they do care about Lavin and they do care about Jeter.
 
Apt comparison as Jeter is a media darling as well but I don't see it. Lavin is nowhere near as advanced in his career as Jeter is in his. I don't think anyone (in their right mind) is comparing Lavin to Williams, Izzo, Coach K, Self, Calhoun, Boeheim and the like so who is he overrated in comparison to? These are coaches talking and unlike with Roy and Jimmy B being overrated in comparison to Wooden, in their eyes, I honestly think these coaches being polled think Lavin is overrated compared to themselves. They are wondering what has he accomplished to BECOME this media darling. I mean he's essentially coached one year in the last 10 with a first round exit but gets more coverage than 98% of D1 hoops coaches. Lavs just has to keep producing to justify it their eyes, that's how I see it.
 
 They absolutely are comparing him in the sense that he recruits high level talent but does not seem to net the type of seasons (specifically at UCLA) commensurate with that talent.

Not directly with stats like Jeter but that wasn't the point.

Jay Wright is on that list. Villanova went to 7 straight NCAA's, went to a Final 4, was a 1,2,3 and 5 seeds in the NCAA's at different points. That is phenomenal success at Nova.

Why is he overrated?

Here is where I am going. When SJU hired Lavin many said it was a gamble hire because he got fired at UCLA. The argument went that he couldn't ultimately hack it at UCLA specifically because they underachieved relative to the recruiting. Fairly or unfairly that was the perception. Follow me. SHU and RU fans consistently panned the hire while at the same time expressing how great hiring a MAAC coach and a Northeast Conference coach. Why? Because they felt Lavin was "overrated." Why? Because he ultimately did not succeed at UCLA. Forget whether that is a fair argument. Mind you nobody overrates Rice or Willard because neither of them have ever had a major job nor have ever had expectations put on them relative to a major job like UCLA. In other words no one has ever cared what they do and that is why it is laughable for them to pan the Lavin hire since their choices would never even sniff a job like UCLA. They don't it.

Here is the ultimate point. Let's assume the argument is correct that he was "overrated" at UCLA. How does that make him a bad hire relative to those other hires? UCLA fans compared him to "Coach K, Pitino, Williams etc." In other words the elite and said we (UCLA) are entitled to a coach who can recruit and win all the time.

That is my point. That is ultimately where the "overrated" tag comes from. It comes from his years at UCLA where people did not think he won enough. Put aside whether that is fair or not the comparison for UCLA is with those BLUE BLOOD programs and ultimately those coaches.
 
I guess that's possible. I just see Lavin's UCLA body of work as ancient history and thought that his fellow coaches would too. You may very well be right, and we'll never know, but if these guys are basing their votes on what happened 10 years ago they have to stop living in the past.
 
 They absolutely are comparing him in the sense that he recruits high level talent but does not seem to net the type of seasons (specifically at UCLA) commensurate with that talent.

Not directly with stats like Jeter but that wasn't the point.

Jay Wright is on that list. Villanova went to 7 straight NCAA's, went to a Final 4, was a 1,2,3 and 5 seeds in the NCAA's at different points. That is phenomenal success at Nova.

Why is he overrated?

Here is where I am going. When SJU hired Lavin many said it was a gamble hire because he got fired at UCLA. The argument went that he couldn't ultimately hack it at UCLA specifically because they underachieved relative to the recruiting. Fairly or unfairly that was the perception. Follow me. SHU and RU fans consistently panned the hire while at the same time expressing how great hiring a MAAC coach and a Northeast Conference coach. Why? Because they felt Lavin was "overrated." Why? Because he ultimately did not succeed at UCLA. Forget whether that is a fair argument. Mind you nobody overrates Rice or Willard because neither of them have ever had a major job nor have ever had expectations put on them relative to a major job like UCLA. In other words no one has ever cared what they do and that is why it is laughable for them to pan the Lavin hire since their choices would never even sniff a job like UCLA. They don't it.

Here is the ultimate point. Let's assume the argument is correct that he was "overrated" at UCLA. How does that make him a bad hire relative to those other hires? UCLA fans compared him to "Coach K, Pitino, Williams etc." In other words the elite and said we (UCLA) are entitled to a coach who can recruit and win all the time.

That is my point. That is ultimately where the "overrated" tag comes from. It comes from his years at UCLA where people did not think he won enough. Put aside whether that is fair or not the comparison for UCLA is with those BLUE BLOOD programs and ultimately those coaches.
Click to expand...
 

As we saw with the previously billed "great recruiter" NR, recruiting talented players IS an amazing ability in itself. John Wooden always said, "No, I'm not the greatest coach. I am certain there are far better coaches you've never heard of, working in small high school gyms in obscure places, who have never won a championship". It all starts with the players, and being able to assess talent, assemble teams, and sell a player on coming to your school is probably way more important than X's and O's. Just look at the teams Phil Jackson chose to coach, or Pat Riley. Or, as Frank McGuire famously said, "I'll get the players and you coach, and I'll beat you every time."
 
Man, never have I seen so much brouhaha over a relatively innocuous blog post.

.
Click to expand...
 

This is the most excitement I've watched since the olympic swim team " call me maybe " lip sync video that was on every site the last 2 weeks

Cant wait for this season to freaking start already
 
This is awesome. Just like when the Seton Hall student section chanted "overrated" at us when they beat us 2 years ago. I had the biggest shit eating grin after that. Much better feeling than getting ready to storm the court with 8 other students in the last game of the year against an unranked WVU team, just to have WVU tie it at the end of the game and win in OT. 
 
 And this gets thrown around far too often. I don't do it that much so I don't feel bad saying I always thought he was shady (recruiting).
Click to expand...
 

Crean?
Nah. Otherwise they would have been better a lot sooner :)
At Marquette he just got solid guys. Nothing over the top.
Click to expand...
 

Fair point but everybody has 1 or 2 guys they just have bad feelings about. For whatever reason he rubs me the wrong way
Click to expand...
 
Just curious-does the coaching tree he came from-Tom Izzo of Mich St rub you the wrong way also.
Click to expand...
 

So since Quin Snider came from Coach K's coaching tree, I assume coach K stinks? Your logic doesn't add up.
 
for Howland it's being able to live in the same city as Traczok and Austour, etc.....
Click to expand...
 
:) :) :) :) :)

My take overall, making that list put you in some fine company. Alot of these overrated list tends to deal with jealousy. I have seen some SI polls where guys make the top in both overrated and underrated. No biggie.

To borrow another poster's line; "In Lavs we trust."
 
 exactly. this is haterade on a grand scale. these are the coaches most feared by the others. no doubt other coaches hate the recruiting impact of Lavin and while he may still have flaws or what have you, the sleeping giant is creeping out of the cave and pissin' off everyone in the process. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top