Can St. John's Close the Deal?

[doodyny33]

But why are we worrying about things that haven't happened yet? If Jordan and/or Obekpa play well enough that they are considered 1st round picks, isn't that a good thing? That means St. John's will have a great year and we'll be dancing come March.

If hypothetically both of those guys are gone next year, then St. John's will suck regardless of who they get (and that includes Briscoe, Diallo, and Sampson). Unless your name is Melo or Durant, not many freshmen come in and are stars from day 1.

 

[rawdognyc]

But why are we worrying about things that haven't happened yet? If Jordan and/or Obekpa play well enough that they are considered 1st round picks, isn't that a good thing? That means St. John's will have a great year and we'll be dancing come March.

If hypothetically both of those guys are gone next year, then St. John's will suck regardless of who they get (and that includes Briscoe, Diallo, and Sampson). Unless your name is Melo or Durant, not many freshmen come in and are stars from day 1.

I think we will dance this year because of those two. That's why I'm going to make sure to enjoy this year.

However I do feel if we got Briscoe and Diallo, we'd be good next year. Two top 10 players. Who knows though...

 

[austour]

But why are we worrying about things that haven't happened yet? If Jordan and/or Obekpa play well enough that they are considered 1st round picks, isn't that a good thing? That means St. John's will have a great year and we'll be dancing come March.

If hypothetically both of those guys are gone next year, then St. John's will suck regardless of who they get (and that includes Briscoe, Diallo, and Sampson). Unless your name is Melo or Durant, not many freshmen come in and are stars from day 1.

I think we will dance this year because of those two. That's why I'm going to make sure to enjoy this year.

However I do feel if we got Briscoe and Diallo, we'd be good next year. Two top 10 players. Who knows though...

They might even be the second coming of Felipe and Zendon. PS Briscoe is not a consensus top 10. Close but not quite.

 

[rawdognyc]

But why are we worrying about things that haven't happened yet? If Jordan and/or Obekpa play well enough that they are considered 1st round picks, isn't that a good thing? That means St. John's will have a great year and we'll be dancing come March.

If hypothetically both of those guys are gone next year, then St. John's will suck regardless of who they get (and that includes Briscoe, Diallo, and Sampson). Unless your name is Melo or Durant, not many freshmen come in and are stars from day 1.

I think we will dance this year because of those two. That's why I'm going to make sure to enjoy this year.

However I do feel if we got Briscoe and Diallo, we'd be good next year. Two top 10 players. Who knows though...

They might even be the second coming of Felipe and Zendon. PS Briscoe is not a consensus top 10. Close but not quite.

Lol...shoot..weren't we a .500 club their first couple years? Granted BE was a lot tougher then.

 

[1and1sju]

The short answer: No.

I think Briscoe truly is considering SJU, but at the end of the day I think him and his dad are going to have to put their faith in a coach and program to take care of his blossoming career.
And I ask myself, would I entrust my young son's career to Steve Lavin? The answer is not in a million years. There are too many other paths to the NBA to take a risk on SL.

Lavin just sent two guys ranked in the 40's out of high school to the NBA--one as a frosh and one as a soph. Earl Watson, as CR reminded us often, was not a stud recruit either.

Cal has an incredibly impressive list of NBA guys, but most of them were "can't miss" types. Lavin is no slouch in this area.

No, you're right. Lavin has gotten guys to the nba over the years. And calipari isn't a sure thing.
But at the end of the day where are your odds better? Why roll the dice with somebody who is a lame - duck, hasn't been to the post season recently, and hasn't proven he will be able to put any talent around you next year?

It seems like a gamble not worth taking. It could work out, but it's not like being the 6th man at UK prevents you from being drafted. For every John wall, they have a half dozen guys like jakarr and Moe who are at the end of nba benches. The Gilchrists Terrence jones, josh harrelsons of the world.

I hope Briscoe really has a desire to light up nyc, and sees something in SL that is trusting.
But I'm skeptical about what will happen when push comes to shove.

 

[bobre45]

I will always believe that SJU is one decent hire away from success. There have been signs of that going back through Fraschilla and even the early Jarvis period. Since then we've chosen to ignore huge red flags like Norm's miserable prior record and Lavin's implosion at UCLA. I always asked whether 5 million Uclans could be wrong and I think we now know the answer to that question. Beyond that your record and roster say what you are.
The sheer lack of recruits and lack of performance clearly state that Lavin is not getting it done. Once again we will see mid major teams with better players that we've ignored in hopes that some blue chippers will magically fall our way. It's the same story every year. I've always advocated filling the bench with the best available second tier players and taking our chances. Even Norm managed to assemble a tournament team however unwittingly with players Lavin never would have touched. Now Lavin chooses to flirt with disaster with an incomplete roster and spotty prospects at best. Nobody cares though and I'm already making plans to give away key tickets with very few regrets. Wish that were tax deductible but the IRS would never believe I made the investment to begin with. Oh well, it's only money and embarrassment at stake.
I hope Monasch and the ineffective hierarchy at the school had a great off-season. I wonder if they read the message boards to see how dysfunctional their flagship program really is.

 

[monte]

I will always believe that SJU is one decent hire away from success. There have been signs of that going back through Fraschilla and even the early Jarvis period. Since then we've chosen to ignore huge red flags like Norm's miserable prior record and Lavin's implosion at UCLA. I always asked whether 5 million Uclans could be wrong and I think we now know the answer to that question. Beyond that your record and roster say what you are.
The sheer lack of recruits and lack of performance clearly state that Lavin is not getting it done. Once again we will see mid major teams with better players that we've ignored in hopes that some blue chippers will magically fall our way. It's the same story every year. I've always advocated filling the bench with the best available second tier players and taking our chances. Even Norm managed to assemble a tournament team however unwittingly with players Lavin never would have touched. Now Lavin chooses to flirt with disaster with an incomplete roster and spotty prospects at best. Nobody cares though and I'm already making plans to give away key tickets with very few regrets. Wish that were tax deductible but the IRS would never believe I made the investment to begin with. Oh well, it's only money and embarrassment at stake.
I hope Monasch and the ineffective hierarchy at the school had a great off-season. I wonder if they read the message boards to see how dysfunctional their flagship program really is.

Not only were they players Lavin wouldn't touch, the one that dropped in his lap(Ron Roberts), he sent packing! While I don't want to turn this in to another Lavin bash fest nor hijack this thread, IMO there's no way this story will have a happy ending simply because I am convinced that Lavin lacks most of the qualities inherent in a successful coach. However I am still hoping to be proven wrong.

 

[Ray Morgan]

Lavin is getting paid the big bucks to get top 100 talent, not find the diamonds in the rough. Many of the less heralded recruits are looking to find a system that will allow them to play to their strengths. Would a spot up long range shooter that needs to be set up by unselfish teammates look to play for this coach? They will look for schools that have featured the 3 as part of their offense for years. Just like tim Doyle realized early on that playing under Jarvis' freelance offense didn't work for him, we are up against it looking for less athletic players seeking a team first environment. Let Lavin do what he does best-go fight for the best athletes and highest rated players that he has a chance of signing.

 

[Andrew]

I think most who post on this board will agree that this is a huge season both on the court and for recruiting. And I think the recruiting is more important unless we get at least to the sweet sixteen. Steve Lavin seems like a nice guy and is media friendly but so is Rex Ryan and sometimes a change is necessary regardless.

 

[paultzman]

I think most who post on this board will agree that this is a huge season both on the court and for recruiting. And I think the recruiting is more important unless we get at least to the sweet sixteen. Steve Lavin seems like a nice guy and is media friendly but so is Rex Ryan and sometimes a change is necessary regardless.

Hope you don't have a pilot's license.

 

[monte]

I think most who post on this board will agree that this is a huge season both on the court and for recruiting. And I think the recruiting is more important unless we get at least to the sweet sixteen. Steve Lavin seems like a nice guy and is media friendly but so is Rex Ryan and sometimes a change is necessary regardless.

Being a nice guy and being media friendly are good, but are way way down on the list of what makes a good coach. Being a good recruiter is certainly important. Equally important is being able to assemble a balanced roster and rotation, including finding kids that compliment each other on the court. Being able to find diamonds in the rough, having a game plan, getting your team to implement that game plan, motivating your kids to play hard ever minute of every game, etc. etc. etc. ,

 

[otis]

.....your record and roster say what you are. The sheer lack of recruits and lack of performance clearly state that Lavin is not getting it done....

There is no way to spin the facts in a way favorable to Lavin. During the past 2 years and 4 month Lavin has signed just 2 high school recruits which lack of recruited talent has left the StJ's roster with only 10 scholarship players this season playing against the 13 players on other Big East rosters. There will be 6 StJ's players graduating after this season. At this late stage in the recruiting process Lavin has zero recruits.

[Fact check: since 3* Jones committed on July 1, 2012 StJ's has received just 2 commits from high schoolers: Jordan on 4/1/13 and DelaRosa on 4/9/14]

 

[austour]

That's so disingenuous I doubt you even believe it. There was one scholarship available for the class of 2013 and it went to the highest ranked STJ recruit since Omar Cook.

The point is the class of 2014 was a failure that will have short term and may have long term implications. Stop trying to be cute with BS statements and just state the facts that are relevant to your complaint. And state them early and often since it looks like your point might only be valid for 6 more days.

My other question to both of you is would you have been happier if Lavin stocked the roster with 3 star HS and/or overrated borderline NY/NJ talent when he struck out last year? I ask because first it would seem to be the only qualifier Otis is interested in and second, it will likely become closer to the norm should the Lavin experiment fail. If this doesn't work then STJ is SHU and/or Rutgers.

 

[rawdognyc]

.....your record and roster say what you are. The sheer lack of recruits and lack of performance clearly state that Lavin is not getting it done....

There is no way to spin the facts in a way favorable to Lavin. During the past 2 years and 4 month Lavin has signed just 2 high school recruits which lack of recruited talent has left the StJ's roster with only 10 scholarship players this season playing against the 13 players on other Big East rosters. There will be 6 StJ's players graduating after this season. At this late stage in the recruiting process Lavin has zero recruits.

[Fact check: since 3* Jones committed on July 1, 2012 StJ's has received just 2 commits from high schoolers: Jordan on 4/1/13 and DelaRosa on 4/9/14]

Aside from the obvious reasons why I want Lavin to sign IB and company, I would look forward to your gun being emptied of those same old bullets you've been storing for the last 2 years.

 

[Marillac]

.....your record and roster say what you are. The sheer lack of recruits and lack of performance clearly state that Lavin is not getting it done....

There is no way to spin the facts in a way favorable to Lavin. During the past 2 years and 4 month Lavin has signed just 2 high school recruits which lack of recruited talent has left the StJ's roster with only 10 scholarship players this season playing against the 13 players on other Big East rosters. There will be 6 StJ's players graduating after this season. At this late stage in the recruiting process Lavin has zero recruits.

[Fact check: since 3* Jones committed on July 1, 2012 StJ's has received just 2 commits from high schoolers: Jordan on 4/1/13 and DelaRosa on 4/9/14]

Aside from the obvious reasons why I want Lavin to sign IB and company, I would look forward to your gun being emptied of those same old bullets you've been storing for the last 2 years.

Don't be so sure he'll empty that gun. He was back at it less than two months after Lavin filled his one open scholarship and greatest position of need with a five star PG.

 

[beast of the east]

I think most who post on this board will agree that this is a huge season both on the court and for recruiting. And I think the recruiting is more important unless we get at least to the sweet sixteen. Steve Lavin seems like a nice guy and is media friendly but so is Rex Ryan and sometimes a change is necessary regardless.

Being a nice guy and being media friendly are good, but are way way down on the list of what makes a good coach. Being a good recruiter is certainly important. Equally important is being able to assemble a balanced roster and rotation, including finding kids that compliment each other on the court. Being able to find diamonds in the rough, having a game plan, getting your team to implement that game plan, motivating your kids to play hard ever minute of every game, etc. etc. etc. ,

Here are the three top attributes of a good coach

1) Winning
2) Winning
3) Winning

Winning makes you smart, good looking, and hard working
Losing makes you dumb, fat, and lazy.

 

[monte]

I think most who post on this board will agree that this is a huge season both on the court and for recruiting. And I think the recruiting is more important unless we get at least to the sweet sixteen. Steve Lavin seems like a nice guy and is media friendly but so is Rex Ryan and sometimes a change is necessary regardless.

Being a nice guy and being media friendly are good, but are way way down on the list of what makes a good coach. Being a good recruiter is certainly important. Equally important is being able to assemble a balanced roster and rotation, including finding kids that compliment each other on the court. Being able to find diamonds in the rough, having a game plan, getting your team to implement that game plan, motivating your kids to play hard ever minute of every game, etc. etc. etc. ,

Here are the three top attributes of a good coach

1) Winning
2) Winning
3) Winning

Winning makes you smart, good looking, and hard working
Losing makes you dumb, fat, and lazy.

I never said Lavin was dumb or fat

 

[doodyny33]

Lavin is getting paid the big bucks to get top 100 talent, not find the diamonds in the rough. Many of the less heralded recruits are looking to find a system that will allow them to play to their strengths. Would a spot up long range shooter that needs to be set up by unselfish teammates look to play for this coach? They will look for schools that have featured the 3 as part of their offense for years. Just like tim Doyle realized early on that playing under Jarvis' freelance offense didn't work for him, we are up against it looking for less athletic players seeking a team first environment. Let Lavin do what he does best-go fight for the best athletes and highest rated players that he has a chance of signing.

Lavin needs to get both. Getting top 50 level talent is great. They create buzz for the program and the fact is usually they're ranked that high for a reason. But finding mid tier diamonds in the rough is essential too. They might not be stars from the get go, but they are usually hard working lunch pail guys. They'll do the dirty work for you. A good team has a mix of players that compliment each other's games.