Big East Stats thru 1/8/21

[lawmanfan]

Statistics don't tell you the whole story, but they can shed some light on things.  The attached table shows the statistics of the starters of every Big East team, by position, through 1/8/21.  I've obviously had to make some arbitrary judgments about positions (some teams play 2 guards or 3 guards or 4 guards, some teams play a center, some play 2 forwards, etc).  And I've rounded the numbers some.

My takeaways (not exactly groundbreaking) are that Champagnie would be a high-level starter for any team in the league, and that the main deficiencies are at point guard and center.  Others may find more interesting nuggets in here both from a SJU standpoint and a league standpoint. [attachment=1827]Big East Player Stats 1-8-21.png[/attachment]

 

[lawmanfan]

From a more SJU-centric perspective, these charts show you St John's league rank in various categories, and where our players show up on the top-50 in the league lists.
 

 

[lawmanfan]

From a more SJU-centric perspective, these charts show you St John's league rank in various categories, and where our players show up on the top-50 in the league lists.
  [attachment=1829]SJU Stats 1-8-21.png[/attachment]

 

[redmanwest]

The team stats on offense prove that that is not the main issue, but that defense is.  I'd like to see a higher 3 point conversion rate, but that's been a bane for us forever.  We scloe enough but obvioulsy give up too many points.

 

[lawmanfan]

One more observation:  If you look at where SJU ranks in the league from my last post, you'd probably expect them to be in the middle of the league.  Despite the lack of an individual star outside of Champagnie, as a group they are putting up respectable statistics pretty much across the board with the exception of 3 pointers.

That points to where the problem really lies, as many of us have been saying from the beginning of the season - the defense is just bad - I saw one list where we were 307th in the country (though I think that was before the X game).  Here is where we are in the BE on defensive stats:

Points Allowed - 10th
FG % allowed = 9th
3 Pt % allowed - 8th

OTOH we are second in the league in assists, steals, and blocks. 

All in all it's a mixed bag, but I think the bottom line is that if the defense gets fixed, the team has enough to win games.  Unfortunately, I think the lack of a legitimate post presence is a huge problem on that front.

 

[lawmanfan]

The team stats on offense prove that that is not the main issue, but that defense is.  I'd like to see a higher 3 point conversion rate, but that's been a bane for us forever.  We scloe enough but obvioulsy give up too many points.
 

Beat me to it

 

[redmanwest]

Tie goes to the more analytical... 
 

 

[fordham96]

That's a snippet and again the defense vs offense thing is misleading and you know it. 3 games this year against 2 of the WORST teams in a Power 6 conference BC and Georgetown and their inflated scoring is in those games.

Furthermore you can argue statistics. But bad teams usually play bad including defense. My point is not to suggest they are a good defensive team (you are probably right they aren't) but that it is less about strategy and more about better players.

Furthermore they played 3 games against tope half BE teams Creighton, SHU and Xavier. They scored 205 points against those 3 for an average of 68 per game. Not going to cut it period. For crying out loud they held Xavier to 69 points and NO 3 point makes and still LOST BY 8. How in the F is that bad defense? Seriously they have to hold everyone to 60 points, good luck with that.

 

[fordham96]

In games following their loss to SJU BC gave up 87 to Minnesota, 90 to Florida and 101 to a pretty mediocre Syracuse team AT HOME,  A game in which they trailed by 40+ at one point.  My point is SJU's 97 point burst against BC needs to be put into context.  Probably it has something to do with the fact BC is not very good, period.

 

[lawmanfan]

First, I don't know why your default position is to be argumentative.  I posted some numbers, made an observation or two, and that was it.  There isn't any argument to be had there - it's just so others can take a look at the numbers and add their own observations.

Second, to the extent that your "argument" appears to be that the BC game was a wild outlier, I don't think it's a very good argument.  For one thing, they've played 11 games, and the BC game is the same 9% of the total as the Xavier game is.  It isn't as though they scored 300 points in that game and it radically skews the averages.  For another thing, EVERY team has had an outlier above and below their averages, so for everybody except DePaul, it's pretty much an apples-to-apples comparison.

Third, it would be a refreshing change for you to post something - anything - positive about the program or anyone involved in it.  It's almost as though you're not a fan, and just come here for some other reason(s).

 

[MJDinkins]

Third, it would be a refreshing change for you to post something - anything - positive about the program or anyone involved in it.  It's almost as though you're not a fan, and just come here for some other reason(s).


Your last paragraph describes a handful of others as well.  
 

 

[room112]

Third, it would be a refreshing change for you to post something - anything - positive about the program or anyone involved in it.  It's almost as though you're not a fan, and just come here for some other reason(s).


Your last paragraph describes a handful of others as well.  

 

1000% agree with that point as well. Fordham, I appreciate hearing your perspective and analysis, but why does it seem like you only come around to post the negative side of things. I can't once remember a time you were ever around to celebrate with the rest of us when the team was going through a positive stretch and there was excitement. 

 

[bamafan]

Third, it would be a refreshing change for you to post something - anything - positive about the program or anyone involved in it.  It's almost as though you're not a fan, and just come here for some other reason(s).


Your last paragraph describes a handful of others as well.  


 

1000% agree with that point as well. Fordham, I appreciate hearing your perspective and analysis, but why does it seem like you only come around to post the negative side of things. I can't once remember a time you were ever around to celebrate with the rest of us when the team was going through a positive stretch and there was excitement. 



Yes 2000 was a very good year.
 

 

[TheArtest15]

Third, it would be a refreshing change for you to post something - anything - positive about the program or anyone involved in it.  It's almost as though you're not a fan, and just come here for some other reason(s).


Your last paragraph describes a handful of others as well.  

 

No offense Dink, but didnt you criticize Mullin every chance you got his last years here? I can recall that you would make negative posts about him all the time. Whats the difference now that some fans on here are frustrated so far with CMA and the direction of the program? Just because some of us are frustrated that does not mean we are any less of a fan than the delusional always positie people on this site. People express their fandom in different ways. Being positive and unrealistic wont make the players on this team more talented. Not to call you out at all but you seem to complain about every person who posts and makes negative comments about CMA. The beauty of this site is that we all have different opinions. Although I may not agree with some of you, I always enjoy reading your insights. 


Fact of the matter is that so far during CMAs tenure we have been 6-17 in Big East play and 1-12 on the road. How do you defend that? I think he should be given 4-5 years to be able to prove that he can right the ship here, but so far what hes done here has been very disappointing: weird substitiuons, horrible defense, player regression, not a good half court offense, poor or lack of adjustments made, antiquated system......etc. 

 

[Class of 72]

Third, it would be a refreshing change for you to post something - anything - positive about the program or anyone involved in it.  It's almost as though you're not a fan, and just come here for some other reason(s).


Your last paragraph describes a handful of others as well.  


 

1000% agree with that point as well. Fordham, I appreciate hearing your perspective and analysis, but why does it seem like you only come around to post the negative side of things. I can't once remember a time you were ever around to celebrate with the rest of us when the team was going through a positive stretch and there was excitement. 

Fordham has some good points he makes but I doubt he is all in as a St. John's fan.  Why? Well maybe using the handle FORDHAM is a clue.
 

 

[redmannorth]

Not that MJD needs me to speak for him but you are completely incorrect. MJD pointed out in Mullins first year that certain things were very wrong and he proved to be correct. But he did not harp on it like a broken record, but rather stated it as an objective and concerned fan. There is a huge difference. Unfortunately what he wrote early on in Mullins tenure proved to be true. With CMA no one is happy, we are all disappointed with play this second season, and all have concerns about recruiting. Some feel the need to harp on it every post while others feel, notwithstanding their concerns, that a coach with 19 consecutive winning seasons deserves a little more of a chance prior to requesting his removal. Some are asking for a little more patience while others have none and have made up their their minds as to CMAs abilities at SJU. 
I, as a 39 year vested fan of the program am disappointed this season but do I feel Rome is burning, absolutely not. Do I feel he can't do the job, absolutely not. Do I feel he needs far more time before I make up my mind, absolutely. One can be disappointed but not feel the need to call out the staffs flaws every post. By your logic Kentucky should fire Calipari today as his 5 star roster has a loosing record. I am sure the people in Lexington are disappointed as hell but no one is pushing him out the door. 

 

[TheArtest15]

Not that MJD needs me to speak for him but you are completely incorrect. MJD pointed out in Mullins first year that certain things were very wrong and he proved to be correct. But he did not harp on it like a broken record, but rather stated it as an objective and concerned fan. There is a huge difference. Unfortunately what he wrote early on in Mullins tenure proved to be true. With CMA no one is happy, we are all disappointed with play this second season, and all have concerns about recruiting. Some feel the need to harp on it every post while others feel, notwithstanding their concerns, that a coach with 19 consecutive winning seasons deserves a little more of a chance prior to requesting his removal. Some are asking for a little more patience while others have none and have made up their their minds as to CMAs abilities at SJU. 
I, as a 39 year vested fan of the program am disappointed this season but do I feel Rome is burning, absolutely not. Do I feel he can't do the job, absolutely not. Do I feel he needs far more time before I make up my mind, absolutely. One can be disappointed but not feel the need to call out the staffs flaws every post. By your logic Kentucky should fire Calipari today as his 5 star roster has a loosing record. I am sure the people in Lexington are disappointed as hell but no one is pushing him out the door. 

Oh so when myself and others post about us feeling like things are going wrong for CMA thats totally different? Makes no sense to me at all. As ive stated before I coach on Long Island and know and am friends with coaches at some of the top programs here and in AAU and what they have told me has seemed to be true about kids wanting to play for CMA. So I am just voicing my concerns from my own eyes and the sources that I have. The facts are the higher ranked kids that we have offered and have been in on that I know of from the area do not want to play in this system. I am just sick of people saying that those who are against the coach thus far have an agenda. No, our agenda is that we are tired of losing and want to see the program do well and head in the right direction. Everyone stated how deep we were and how much we would improve in CMAs second year and it has totally been the opposite.

 

[salty dog]

And Christian is on his way out and that's how many since Skinner?

 

[fordham96]

Evidently  i triggered a nerve. My biggest pet peeve is pepñle who simply say that are patently false or are said to self serve an agenda. I think a lot people have poor arguments to combat it and so the easiest answer is "Why don't you post pro-SJU stuff even if you have to make it up..." 

As for my credentials as a fan I think this allegation is really low and immature. There are a number of people that can attest to that. I shouldn't have to defend myself and I really don't appreciate the inference as I have never made that allegation against anyone. 

If anyone has a personal issue with me feel free to IM me I'll even share my email to be more personal. 

But this is childish and quite frankly beneath me to respond, if you can't combat my arguments with reasonable comebacks then feel free to ignore them.

 

[Moose]

Not that MJD needs me to speak for him but you are completely incorrect. MJD pointed out in Mullins first year that certain things were very wrong and he proved to be correct. But he did not harp on it like a broken record, but rather stated it as an objective and concerned fan. There is a huge difference. Unfortunately what he wrote early on in Mullins tenure proved to be true. With CMA no one is happy, we are all disappointed with play this second season, and all have concerns about recruiting. Some feel the need to harp on it every post while others feel, notwithstanding their concerns, that a coach with 19 consecutive winning seasons deserves a little more of a chance prior to requesting his removal. Some are asking for a little more patience while others have none and have made up their their minds as to CMAs abilities at SJU. 
I, as a 39 year vested fan of the program am disappointed this season but do I feel Rome is burning, absolutely not. Do I feel he can't do the job, absolutely not. Do I feel he needs far more time before I make up my mind, absolutely. One can be disappointed but not feel the need to call out the staffs flaws every post. By your logic Kentucky should fire Calipari today as his 5 star roster has a loosing record. I am sure the people in Lexington are disappointed as hell but no one is pushing him out the door. 

Oh so when myself and others post about us feeling like things are going wrong for CMA thats totally different? Makes no sense to me at all. As ive stated before I coach on Long Island and know and am friends with coaches at some of the top programs here and in AAU and what they have told me has seemed to be true about kids wanting to play for CMA. So I am just voicing my concerns from my own eyes and the sources that I have. The facts are the higher ranked kids that we have offered and have been in on that I know of from the area do not want to play in this system. I am just sick of people saying that those who are against the coach thus far have an agenda. No, our agenda is that we are tired of losing and want to see the program do well and head in the right direction. Everyone stated how deep we were and how much we would improve in CMAs second year and it has totally been the opposite.

I respect that you coach in the area and I always enjoy reading posts from those who are connected.

My question is what coach do kids want to play for around here.  We've run the gamut the last 20 years.  From a pompous jerk in Jarvis to a hard working well respected assistant in Norm.  To a slick talker in Lavin to a former City and School Legend in over his head to now a no nonsese 'coach' who has won plenty of games in his career.  Yet the common theme is kids avoid SJU like the plague.  A rhetorical question but what's the answer?  Who would be the coach NYC kids actually want to stay home and play for their hometown school?