Anderson - is he really the guy ?

[monte]

Beast I think it depends on what the plan is, and what you mean by "open the checkbook". But let's say,
for instance, that the school announced that they had plans for new 10,000 seat on campus(or close to campus) arena provided they could raise X number of dollars and sell 8K season tickets in advance, I would immediately commit to purchasing 2 of the best seats in the house, and make an additional donation based on what I could afford at the time. 

I understand Monte.   I don't think we could possibly build a new on campus arena, since that by itself could cost $100 million.   We really don't need an arena of that size.    I sort of doubt that without a top 25 team we could sell 8K season tickets even if we were playing in the Taj Mahal.   Just keep in mind that when you do re-up, you start out with zero priority points, which you forfeit when you cancel season tix.

It was just an example Beast, but then what's the solution? I am a prime example of someone who will buy season tickets if I feel the school is committed to winning, with actions and not words. Doesn't mean we have to win every year, but I have to at least feel that there's a commitment to winning. Not sure how many other fans fall in to my category. My friends in the city who are not SJU alum but would love to jump on the bandwagon,
may buy the MSG package, but only if the team has a buzz around it. Ultimately it all comes down to the product. A good product sells in NYC, a mediocre product doesn't sell. 

 

[beast of the east]

Beast I think it depends on what the plan is, and what you mean by "open the checkbook". But let's say,
for instance, that the school announced that they had plans for new 10,000 seat on campus(or close to campus) arena provided they could raise X number of dollars and sell 8K season tickets in advance, I would immediately commit to purchasing 2 of the best seats in the house, and make an additional donation based on what I could afford at the time. 

I understand Monte.   I don't think we could possibly build a new on campus arena, since that by itself could cost $100 million.   We really don't need an arena of that size.    I sort of doubt that without a top 25 team we could sell 8K season tickets even if we were playing in the Taj Mahal.   Just keep in mind that when you do re-up, you start out with zero priority points, which you forfeit when you cancel season tix.

It was just an example Beast, but then what's the solution? I am a prime example of someone who will buy season tickets if I feel the school is committed to winning, with actions and not words. Doesn't mean we have to win every year, but I have to at least feel that there's a commitment to winning. Not sure how many other fans fall in to my category. My friends in the city who are not SJU alum but would love to jump on the bandwagon,
may buy the MSG package, but only if the team has a buzz around it. Ultimately it all comes down to the product. A good product sells in NYC, a mediocre product doesn't sell. 

I just think that someone like you will come on board later, after the project is underway or completed but also when the team breaks the top 25 or makes the NCAAs maybe twice in 3 or 4 years.   That's okay, of course.

Merry Christmas.   I have to start annoying my family.

 

 

[monte]

One more thing Beast; I had season tickets through the Mullin era and was planning on re-upping when CMA was hired, in spite of my reservations about the hire. But then the school decided it was a good idea to raise ticket prices. Now, without getting in to the value of the increased cost of a ticket, the optics were just bad to me. Coming off the unsuccessful Mullin and Lavin eras, the idea of paying 30%(if I remember correctly) more  because the school felt they made a "home run hire" just didn't sit right with me. So I didn't re-up and won't re-up until I'm convinced that there's a commitment to winning. 

 

[monte]

Beast I think it depends on what the plan is, and what you mean by "open the checkbook". But let's say,
for instance, that the school announced that they had plans for new 10,000 seat on campus(or close to campus) arena provided they could raise X number of dollars and sell 8K season tickets in advance, I would immediately commit to purchasing 2 of the best seats in the house, and make an additional donation based on what I could afford at the time. 

I understand Monte.   I don't think we could possibly build a new on campus arena, since that by itself could cost $100 million.   We really don't need an arena of that size.    I sort of doubt that without a top 25 team we could sell 8K season tickets even if we were playing in the Taj Mahal.   Just keep in mind that when you do re-up, you start out with zero priority points, which you forfeit when you cancel season tix.

It was just an example Beast, but then what's the solution? I am a prime example of someone who will buy season tickets if I feel the school is committed to winning, with actions and not words. Doesn't mean we have to win every year, but I have to at least feel that there's a commitment to winning. Not sure how many other fans fall in to my category. My friends in the city who are not SJU alum but would love to jump on the bandwagon,
may buy the MSG package, but only if the team has a buzz around it. Ultimately it all comes down to the product. A good product sells in NYC, a mediocre product doesn't sell. 

I just think that someone like you will come on board later, after the project is underway or completed but also when the team breaks the top 25 or makes the NCAAs maybe twice in 3 or 4 years.   That's okay, of course.

Merry Christmas.   I have to start annoying my family.
 

See my post below and believe what you wish. I may be a lot of things, many bad, but a BS artist I ain't. 

 

[SJU Double Alumn]

 

Yet, we'll spend $ on new carpeting in lobby of CA, or new entrance signs by baseball field and posting that on social media as some huge success and sign of progress.

See what I'm saying ? Its about priorities, vision calculated risks and action.

I dont know who is on the board and all their backgrounds, but perhaps too many alumns with law and insurance and accounting degrees who are too risk adverse by nature. I say that myself being more risk adverse by nature but recognize and appreciate the flip side when needed and right move to change course.

Innovators and entrepreneurs are who change things.




 

You cannot equate basic upkeep (carpets and signs) with a massive building project. 
St. John's isn't a tech start-up. It's a large educational institution which by its nature will be deliberate. I actually think Shanley and Cragg will make substantial progress toward getting something big done, but it's not happening as easily as you imagine it could be.

 

[fuchsia]

Beast and Monte,

There is a model in Behavioral Health Care called Psychiatric Rehabilitation, developed by William Anthony at Boston University.  Once upon a time I was the coordinator for psychiatric rehabilitation in the Metropolitan Regional Office of the New York State Office of Mental Health, in addition to my work on co-occurring mental illness and substance use disorders in the same patient.  Reading your very constructive back and forth posts reminded me of psych rehabs four areas of concern in terms of recovering patient quality of life:  live, learn, work, play.  Maybe the model can be applied to your discussion, and I am willing to try.

I am in the substantial group that believes that "live" comes first, the place where a student goes to sleep and study and greets his or her family matters most.  In the recovery world the phrase is "housing first".

We are a university so "learn" can't be far behind.

As for work and play, I probably vote for a modern well-equipped facility for conditioning and health care, as that's what helps to prevent injuries and bolsters attitude. 

That seems to put play last, actual games in front of fans are the most show but perhaps the least grow in terms of player quality of life, and playing in the Garden probably still matters.

If we are playing 15 or 16 home games a year and six are in MSG that leaves 10 between Carnesecca and other venues.  If we put two in UBS and one in Barclay's, that leaves seven on campus.

If we build a new conditioning and health and locker room and coaches' offices structure, can we lower the floor of Carnesecca to where the current workout rooms are and strengthen the way the existing facility presents?

The last time I was at a game was vs. Columbia with Panther and now I have no home in New York, just Florida.  I carry around memories of the pit at UNM as a model of what Carnesecca could be.  Please keep sharing on this topic.  Merry Christmas and a Great New Year.

 

[monte]

Beast and Monte,

There is a model in Behavioral Health Care called Psychiatric Rehabilitation, developed by William Anthony at Boston University.  Once upon a time I was the coordinator for psychiatric rehabilitation in the Metropolitan Regional Office of the New York State Office of Mental Health, in addition to my work on co-occurring mental illness and substance use disorders in the same patient.  Reading your very constructive back and forth posts reminded me of psych rehabs four areas of concern in terms of recovering patient quality of life:  live, learn, work, play.  Maybe the model can be applied to your discussion, and I am willing to try.

I am in the substantial group that believes that "live" comes first, the place where a student goes to sleep and study and greets his or her family matters most.  In the recovery world the phrase is "housing first".

We are a university so "learn" can't be far behind.

As for work and play, I probably vote for a modern well-equipped facility for conditioning and health care, as that's what helps to prevent injuries and bolsters attitude. 

That seems to put play last, actual games in front of fans are the most show but perhaps the least grow in terms of player quality of life, and playing in the Garden probably still matters.

If we are playing 15 or 16 home games a year and six are in MSG that leaves 10 between Carnesecca and other venues.  If we put two in UBS and one in Barclay's, that leaves seven on campus.

If we build a new conditioning and health and locker room and coaches' offices structure, can we lower the floor of Carnesecca to where the current workout rooms are and strengthen the way the existing facility presents?

The last time I was at a game was vs. Columbia with Panther and now I have no home in New York, just Florida.  I carry around memories of the pit at UNM as a model of what Carnesecca could be.  Please keep sharing on this topic.  Merry Christmas and a Great New Year.

"Where there's a will...." Merry Christmas Fuchsia, to you and your family. And all the best in 2022. 

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

Not sure how it was done at Providence by Fr Shanley but , he got Dunkin to rebuild or renovate  their Playing Arena into a nice Facility .    Many here are advocating the substantial $$$$ to invest  in improved CA and improved On Campus Training rooms , Weight rooms , Coaches Offices , Carpeted locker rooms with more than 2 hot showers , etc .                 
   I have a suggestion , worthy only from one of the old guys .    I drove past yesterday the UBS Arena on the Cross Island on my way home in 15 hours on Rt 95 .   It was a 2 day journey that blew up all our Christmas plans in NY .   A daughter in law tested Positive .      But , I digress .       UBS has all the outward appearance of a first class building .    My plan is this, forget about playing any more Home Games at CA ! Ever !   Play all non MSG games there .   Make a $$$$ Investment to install new SJU locker rooms , Trainer Rooms , etc .at UBS .    As I understand it , only the Icelanders play there . No Pro BB .  See , I still remember Steve Somersault of FAN . Despite being out of NY for 10 years .                  Set a overall ST Johns $ 100 Million $$$  Fund Raising Plan . Which FR Shanley and the Board are likely already formulating .   Big $$$ donors  are needed but , it’s disappointing to learn only 4 percent of Current Alumni donate anything !         All of you who owe some portion of Career Success to St John’s could afford $25 or $50 a year or whatever .  You NY people spend more than that at MSG for a Import Beer and a Hot Dog,, popcorn during a game .  Don’t you ?     Or , become a really big contributor at the $50 or $ 100 dollar level . If 1/2 the Alumni base of 104,000 contributed something more than Nothing , it would go a long way to improving every thing about the School including BB . Why not make that a Christmas and New Year’s pledge . Merry Christmas . 

I hear you SF, but I have this theory about donating; people should donate because they want to, not because they owe anyone anything. Least of all a school that charges a very good tuition. It's always great to give back, but people shouldn't do it out of obligation, guilt or peer pressure. I'm sure I'm in the minority on this. 
              Monte , you are a good poster . On most BB issues .  But , on Donating to St John’s I think you are wrong .       We , who donate want to! It’s not a obligation ,.  It’s a love of the School we attended in our youth .  It provided a decent if not better than average Education and gave me a sense of what was to come .  It didn’t cost a fortune to attend and I don’t feel I over paid .                                            By comparison , my Granddaughter will graduate  next May from Notre Dame . As a result , i have learned a lot more about ND than I knew before she attended   For one , ND would likely not be the School it is today without Football !  And , that includes Academics and it’s ranking as one of America’s finest Colleges .               Another key factor is that nearly all ND Alum love the School . Absolutely love it to a  nth degree !    And , they show that Love with their Wallets .   Sure ND has a lot of well heeled Alums but , so does St John’s .    I have no idea the percent of ND alums who donate but , I bet it’s not 4 percent .    A Fund Raising Campaign is a lot more than just BB and Arenas .       St John’s is 152 years old in 2022.   It’s done a few things right in that time frame to get it to a level of 20,000 plus Students .  One of the largest Catholic Universities in America . Possibly second only to DePaul  and twice as large as ND .    The point being that donating to Alma Mater is not a obligation , duty or guilt trip .  It comes from within and deciding whether or not , as Alums we value what we received when they handed us our Diplomas .    I agree with all those who think St John’s Brand is about Basketball . We have tarnished that Brand over the last 25 years but , it is not lost forever .  We just need to reclaim it and polish the stone a bit . Fr Shanley has the gear to get us there ..  But, it takes $$$.  
 

 

[ADORAZ]

I try not to get too negative on here and take this stuff game to game, but since we aren't playing games I needed to vent. I haven't posted since prior to the Pitt game.

I've been a fan for only 9 years (which is less time than most here), but I will say this is the lowest point the program has been during my time as a fan. At least during Mullin years 1-2 and Lavin years 2-3 we had some solid recruiting classes incoming and we could excuse those teams for having empty cupboards to deal with.

Then years 4/5 rolled around and despite us (barely) making the NCAA Tournament most fans weren't happy with the direction of the program and we were able to start with new coaches. We are now in year 3 and I doubt this team is going anywhere. Same for next year's team with the #60 incoming class and Champ leaving.

What's so bad about the current situation is the extension, which I thought was odd at the time. Under normal circumstances we could at least say "hey, we suck but he'll be gone by the end of next year if we don't improve". Are fans really expected to wait 5 years or whatever for our next coach? Is the contract really as bad as it seems, with no way out?

Anyway, I'd love to think about our next coach but it's way too early to even dream about that. I've been critical of CMA's mediocre recruiting for years and unfortunately it's panning out exactly as I expected it to. I'll continue to support the program and hope for a miraculous turnaround, but my enthusiasm is plummeting and I can't fully support them in donations and I won't drag my friends to a mediocre product without a future.

Normally I'd come up with something positive to say to offset the negativity, but right now I've got nothing.

 

[JohnnyFan]

Adam, I can appreciate your perspective but respectfully disagree.

In the end, Lavin's work ethic was insufficient.  He was no longer committed on a level that a D-I coach needs to be.

Mullin, on the other hand, was not a basketball coach.  Worse, he was not interested in doing the work necessary to become one.

While things could admittedly be better right now, when considering both our coach and athletic director, I think we are in better hands than we were under the previous two regimes.

 

[ADORAZ]

Adam, I can appreciate your perspective but respectfully disagree.

In the end, Lavin's work ethic was insufficient.  He was no longer committed on a level a D-I coach needs to be.

Mullin, on the other hand, was not a basketball coach.  Worse, he was not interested in doing the work necessary to become one.

While things could admittedly be better right now, when considering both our coach and athletic director, I think we are in much better hands than we were under the previous two regimes.

I wasn't defending Lavin or Mullin (although in hindsight I think Lavin should've been extended), but rather saying that when things got bad towards the end at least we could look forward to a new coach immediately. We're in the middle of year 3 with a mediocre incoming recruiting class and our best player leaving... with 5 (?) more years to go rather than 1. I'm really struggling to find positives here despite CMA's work effort (which hasn't resulted in enough BE caliber recruits, player retention, or wins... the 3 most important things).

 

[monte]

Adam, I can appreciate your perspective but respectfully disagree.

In the end, Lavin's work ethic was insufficient.  He was no longer committed on a level a D-I coach needs to be.

Mullin, on the other hand, was not a basketball coach.  Worse, he was not interested in doing the work necessary to become one.

While things could admittedly be better right now, when considering both our coach and athletic director, I think we are in much better hands than we were under the previous two regimes.

One thing I can say for certain is that for the most part, CMA's teams play hard every minute of every game. I couldn't say the same for Lav and Chris's teams. And while I respect your opinion immensely JF, I'm not ready to pass judgement one way or the other at this point, on whether or not we're in better hands. That holds true for the AD as well. 

 

[JohnnyFan]

Adam, I can appreciate your perspective but respectfully disagree.

In the end, Lavin's work ethic was insufficient.  He was no longer committed on a level a D-I coach needs to be.

Mullin, on the other hand, was not a basketball coach.  Worse, he was not interested in doing the work necessary to become one.

While things could admittedly be better right now, when considering both our coach and athletic director, I think we are in much better hands than we were under the previous two regimes.

One thing I can say for certain is that for the most part, CMA's teams play hard every minute of every game. I couldn't say the same for Lav and Chris's teams. And while I respect your opinion immensely JF, I'm not ready to pass judgement one way or the other at this point, on whether or not we're in better hands. That holds true for the AD as well. 

Fair enough.  Ultimately, only time will tell.  

 

[ras]

It’s true we haven’t looked good this year. But Anderson outperformed the first two years relative to expectations. Really have to see how the season pans out.

 

[beast of the east]

After much reflection and discernment on this topic,

I think That

Our fans should drink more...

.. or less....

Or more or less.
 

 

[ADORAZ]

It’s true we haven’t looked good this year. But Anderson outperformed the first two years relative to expectations. Really have to see how the season pans out.

I agree those teams slightly outperformed their (low) expectations, but end of the day they resulted in zero NIT/NCAA appearances, mass turnover, and zero top 50 recruiting classes in 4 cycles. I doubt many people here would've wanted CMA signed (or extended) knowing how things would look by this point. 

While I'm not optimistic about the remainder of the year, I do agree that we need to wait to see how the season pans out. We don't have much of a choice anyway for the next several years.

 

[NCJohnnie]

Adam wrote:

I agree those teams slightly outperformed their (low) expectations, but end of the day they resulted in zero NIT/NCAA appearances, mass turnover, and zero top 50 recruiting classes in 4 cycles. I doubt many people here would've wanted CMA signed (or extended) knowing how things would look by this point. 

While I'm not optimistic about the remainder of the year, I do agree that we need to wait to see how the season pans out. We don't have much of a choice anyway for the next several years.

Adam, while I agree that it's very fair to question the timing of Coach's extension, there is no question that I am very happy we signed him as our coach 3 years ago.  He was head and shoulders above any of the other candidates we were down to, has shown the ability to get the most of his players even if not highly ranked in HS (witness Julian, Wusu, Earlington and Posh as examples) and as others have pointed out slightly outperformed expectations in each of his first two seasons here. This year will be a disappointment if we don't dance, but you don't toss a coach for one disappointing year (which isn't over yet). While I agree that if we don't sign another top 100 recruit for 2022 (we already have one signed) it will not be a particularly strong class, if we do sign another top 100 kid (hopefully a frontcourt player), it will be a very good class as both Storr & King look like solid players. Wish I'd hear more about us being in the hunt for another top 100 kid - very quiet. 

 

[usguard]

After 3 seasons we shouldn’t  be saying let’s see how it pans out.We should have seen some big positives and we are not playing well. If we only win 4-5 games in confr things will have to change ,as you say let’s wait and see
 

 

[Amaseinyourface]

I try not to get too negative on here and take this stuff game to game, but since we aren't playing games I needed to vent. I haven't posted since prior to the Pitt game.

I've been a fan for only 9 years (which is less time than most here), but I will say this is the lowest point the program has been during my time as a fan. At least during Mullin years 1-2 and Lavin years 2-3 we had some solid recruiting classes incoming and we could excuse those teams for having empty cupboards to deal with.

Then years 4/5 rolled around and despite us (barely) making the NCAA Tournament most fans weren't happy with the direction of the program and we were able to start with new coaches. We are now in year 3 and I doubt this team is going anywhere. Same for next year's team with the #60 incoming class and Champ leaving.

What's so bad about the current situation is the extension, which I thought was odd at the time. Under normal circumstances we could at least say "hey, we suck but he'll be gone by the end of next year if we don't improve". Are fans really expected to wait 5 years or whatever for our next coach? Is the contract really as bad as it seems, with no way out?

Anyway, I'd love to think about our next coach but it's way too early to even dream about that. I've been critical of CMA's mediocre recruiting for years and unfortunately it's panning out exactly as I expected it to. I'll continue to support the program and hope for a miraculous turnaround, but my enthusiasm is plummeting and I can't fully support them in donations and I won't drag my friends to a mediocre product without a future.

Normally I'd come up with something positive to say to offset the negativity, but right now I've got nothing.

Adam I remember you had pretty much this exact same post this time last year and it surprised me then. I tried to talk you off the ledge and we ended up having somewhat of a successful season relative to what we were expected to do.

I’m gonna try again. We were 0-3 in BE play and 5-4 overall, certainly a much lower spot then we find ourselves in now and we know we ended up making a season out of it. This year with much more time and as of now a smaller hole to dig out of. 

Im not telling you that CMA is definitely the guy but there is no sense in predicting the outlook of rosters 2-3 years from now with how much turnover there is season to season. A big transfer falls in your lap. A 3 star recruit turns into a first team big east player. And all of a sudden you have expectations.

Last year at this time you saw no hope, now a year later you are upset and probably rightfully so about our play compared to our expectations. That should show you the makeup and expectations of a college basketball team changes on a dime.

Don’t give up yet man!

 

[room112]

My response to Adam and others who feel the same: what did your really expect? I love and appreciate CMA's work ethic, but it will only take you so far in this sport, especially when you are trying to recruit in the cleanest and most ethical way possible, you have to try and pitch around the worst facilities in the Big East, you literally have no recent history of success to show as a track record.

Yes the prior to coaches made the NCAA tourney (Mullin probably as a favor), but none won a game, so in the end who cares. The team that did the best out of all of those was full of Norm's recruits. What does that say? For all of the great recruits brought in by Mullin and Lavin, it sure came with a TON of drama. 

Just adding some further perspective. Let's always remember nobody wanted this job last time around. I'll always be a die hard of this team, but have learned to not expect much.