40 Minutes Of "P.U."

D

docbutler

Member
When you get right down to it, the outcome of this poorly played game boiled down to the "no show" of our three leading scorers. This team is completely dependent on the play of Heron and Figueroa...and to some extent, now Dunn. Those three players combined for a collective 11 for 36 last night. That's 30%! If we can look forward to a repeat of those kind of stats, we are in for a very long season. However, there is far more to it than that. From where I stand, "40 Minutes of Hell" looked more like "40 Minutes of Bad Defense". I am totally unimpressed with Anderson as a tactician. First of all, this pressure defense he employs requires quality athletes to prosecute it. Even if we were blessed in that way, it would still be very iffy-butty thing as to it's effectiveness against better teams. Vermont!!!!!...dismantled it with relative ease last night (what do you think Villanova will do to it?) and the net effect was players left alone for wide open shots and layups. St. John's forced a measly 11 turnovers from Vermont (while they committed 16 of their own). That's not much of a pay-off for loosely played pressure defense.That was accomplished while running our key players into the ground. This team can't afford LJ and Heron on the bench for 25% of the game. Moving on....a very disturbing stat!....The Red Storm mustered up only 6 assists for the entire game. Folks, your offense isn't functioning correctly with a stat like that....that's just pure basketball fact! It's means that your offense isn't doing a good job moving the ball. I thought we took a sizeable amount of poorly conceived shots...forced, off balance...you name it. Heron forces a number of them...penetrating into situations where he simply doesn't have the size to finish. Add to that...we're simply not a good shooting team. When Figueroa is missing, we're like Iron Man with a disabled suit. All in all, we outrebounded Vermont by 11, and believe it or not.....shot 23 more free throws (making 15 more then they did)..a stat that would usually signify a win. But the poorly conceived game plan, along with the incredibly sloppy play (Williams loses the ball just dribbling down court...are you kidding me?), simply wasn't enough to overcome what was basically a one-man team. I was screaming at the TV screen all night long asking Anderson to get someone up on Lamb, and double him when he had the ball. And that brings us to the final play. Please tell me HOW? How on god's earth do you could allow the one player that you really need to stop....to receive an inbounds pass....if he did, not double him immediately....and then give him room to dribble,,,,and put up a foul line length jumper....HOW? Everyone in Carnesecca Arena knew they wanted to put the ball in Lamb's hands. Truly, it was SO ripe for a steal! I mean, I love "Hoosiers", but the Jimmy Chipwitch final shot should only happen in the movies! But thanks to Anderson, we watched it happen on our home court. Look! Vermont played 9 kids in last night's game. 6 of them hardly scored or took a shot! There was only three of them that really required close attention on that last play. Knowing that while playing Roberts down low to prevent an alley oop, you really had an extra man to play with on defense in that situation. I think
it was safe to presume that they weren't going to call a play for Billy Bibbitt! But Anderson let himself get beat in the only way he couldn't possibly allow...and that's a damn shame! A shout out to Dunn for making that amazing clutch shot!
 
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[quote="docbutler" post=363668]When you get right down to it, the outcome of this poorly played game boiled down to the "no show" of our three leading scorers. This team is completely dependent on the play of Heron and Figueroa...and to some extent, now Dunn. Those three players combined for a collective 11 for 36 last night. That's 30%! If we can look forward to a repeat of those kind of stats, we are in for a very long season. However, there is far more to it than that. From where I stand, "40 Minutes of Hell" looked more like "40 Minutes of Bad Defense". I am totally unimpressed with Anderson as a tactician. First of all, this pressure defense he employs requires quality athletes to prosecute it. Even if we were blessed in that way, it would still be very iffy-butty thing as to it's effectiveness against better teams. Vermont!!!!!...dismantled it with relative ease last night (what do you think Villanova will do to it?) and the net effect was players left alone for wide open shots and layups. St. John's forced a measly 11 turnovers from Vermont (while they committed 16 of their own). That's not much of a pay-off for loosely played pressure defense.That was accomplished while running our key players into the ground. This team can't afford LJ and Heron on the bench for 25% of the game. Moving on....a very disturbing stat!....The Red Storm mustered up only 6 assists for the entire game. Folks, your offense isn't functioning correctly with a stat like that....that's just pure basketball fact! It's means that your offense isn't doing a good job moving the ball. I thought we took a sizeable amount of poorly conceived shots...forced, off balance...you name it. Heron forces a number of them...penetrating into situations where he simply doesn't have the size to finish. Add to that...we're simply not a good shooting team. When Figueroa is missing, we're like Iron Man with a disabled suit. All in all, we outrebounded Vermont by 11, and believe it or not.....shot 23 more free throws (making 15 more then they did)..a stat that would usually signify a win. But the poorly conceived game plan, along with the incredibly sloppy play (Williams loses the ball just dribbling down court...are you kidding me?), simply wasn't enough to overcome what was basically a one-man team. I was screaming at the TV screen all night long asking Anderson to get someone up on Lamb, and double him when he had the ball. And that brings us to the final play. Please tell me HOW? How on god's earth do you could allow the one player that you really need to stop....to receive an inbounds pass....if he did, not double him immediately....and then give him room to dribble,,,,and put up a foul line length jumper....HOW? Everyone in Carnesecca Arena knew they wanted to put the ball in Lamb's hands. Truly, it was SO ripe for a steal! I mean, I love "Hoosiers", but the Jimmy Chipwitch final shot should only happen in the movies! But thanks to Anderson, we watched it happen on our home court. Look! Vermont played 9 kids in last night's game. 6 of them hardly scored or took a shot! There was only three of them that really required close attention on that last play. Knowing that while playing Roberts down low to prevent an alley oop, you really had an extra man to play with on defense in that situation. I think
it was safe to presume that they weren't going to call a play for Billy Bibbitt! But Anderson let himself get beat in the only way he couldn't possibly allow...and that's a damn shame! A shout out to Dunn for making that amazing clutch shot![/quote]

I believe CMA and TJ both said after the game that they had the defense set up for Lamb not receive the ball but the players just didn’t execute.
 
That may be, Gene. But the measure of any coach is how their players execute their plan. I'm sure you would agree that it went down much too easy!
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=363681][quote="docbutler" post=363668]When you get right down to it, the outcome of this poorly played game boiled down to the "no show" of our three leading scorers. This team is completely dependent on the play of Heron and Figueroa...and to some extent, now Dunn. Those three players combined for a collective 11 for 36 last night. That's 30%! If we can look forward to a repeat of those kind of stats, we are in for a very long season. However, there is far more to it than that. From where I stand, "40 Minutes of Hell" looked more like "40 Minutes of Bad Defense". I am totally unimpressed with Anderson as a tactician. First of all, this pressure defense he employs requires quality athletes to prosecute it. Even if we were blessed in that way, it would still be very iffy-butty thing as to it's effectiveness against better teams. Vermont!!!!!...dismantled it with relative ease last night (what do you think Villanova will do to it?) and the net effect was players left alone for wide open shots and layups. St. John's forced a measly 11 turnovers from Vermont (while they committed 16 of their own). That's not much of a pay-off for loosely played pressure defense.That was accomplished while running our key players into the ground. This team can't afford LJ and Heron on the bench for 25% of the game. Moving on....a very disturbing stat!....The Red Storm mustered up only 6 assists for the entire game. Folks, your offense isn't functioning correctly with a stat like that....that's just pure basketball fact! It's means that your offense isn't doing a good job moving the ball. I thought we took a sizeable amount of poorly conceived shots...forced, off balance...you name it. Heron forces a number of them...penetrating into situations where he simply doesn't have the size to finish. Add to that...we're simply not a good shooting team. When Figueroa is missing, we're like Iron Man with a disabled suit. All in all, we outrebounded Vermont by 11, and believe it or not.....shot 23 more free throws (making 15 more then they did)..a stat that would usually signify a win. But the poorly conceived game plan, along with the incredibly sloppy play (Williams loses the ball just dribbling down court...are you kidding me?), simply wasn't enough to overcome what was basically a one-man team. I was screaming at the TV screen all night long asking Anderson to get someone up on Lamb, and double him when he had the ball. And that brings us to the final play. Please tell me HOW? How on god's earth do you could allow the one player that you really need to stop....to receive an inbounds pass....if he did, not double him immediately....and then give him room to dribble,,,,and put up a foul line length jumper....HOW? Everyone in Carnesecca Arena knew they wanted to put the ball in Lamb's hands. Truly, it was SO ripe for a steal! I mean, I love "Hoosiers", but the Jimmy Chipwitch final shot should only happen in the movies! But thanks to Anderson, we watched it happen on our home court. Look! Vermont played 9 kids in last night's game. 6 of them hardly scored or took a shot! There was only three of them that really required close attention on that last play. Knowing that while playing Roberts down low to prevent an alley oop, you really had an extra man to play with on defense in that situation. I think
it was safe to presume that they weren't going to call a play for Billy Bibbitt! But Anderson let himself get beat in the only way he couldn't possibly allow...and that's a damn shame! A shout out to Dunn for making that amazing clutch shot![/quote]

I believe CMA and TJ both said after the game that they had the defense set up for Lamb not receive the ball but the players just didn’t execute.[/quote]

But how do you not execute it? You designate 2 players to guard him, and tell them: "no matter what, you stay on him." If there's a pick then someone picks him up on the help defense.
 
[quote="docbutler" post=363684]That may be, Gene. But the measure of any coach is how their players execute their plan. I'm sure you would agree that it went down much too easy![/quote]

Yes Doc, you are correct. That last play was much too easy for Vermont and especially letting their best player get the ball so easy. I agree with that. I guess my issue is your attack on CMA’s whole system based on one game where one of our better players was playing his first game in over a year and we still have to get Steere back etc. We have a lot of new guys playing in a new system. CMA is also still learning about his players and what rotations work etc. The guy has never had a losing season. You’re much more of a student of the game than I am, you’re the maven and probably are seeing things that I don’t. I just want to wait to see how this team performs getting closer to February when we have all of our players and couple of months Playing together before passing any judgements on CMA and staff. I think if we were to play Vermont in February we would win by 7 - 10 pts. Just my humble opinion.
 
I agree with a lot said. Great atmosphere yesterday. And of course deny lamb the ball

I know got beat at times on defense. I'd rather see this defense then just dropping back

Not going to win many games though shooting 60 or so percent from the line and Heron and l j shooting barely 30 per
 
[quote="Tom H O'Toole" post=363686][quote="Mean Gene" post=363681][quote="docbutler" post=363668]When you get right down to it, the outcome of this poorly played game boiled down to the "no show" of our three leading scorers. This team is completely dependent on the play of Heron and Figueroa...and to some extent, now Dunn. Those three players combined for a collective 11 for 36 last night. That's 30%! If we can look forward to a repeat of those kind of stats, we are in for a very long season. However, there is far more to it than that. From where I stand, "40 Minutes of Hell" looked more like "40 Minutes of Bad Defense". I am totally unimpressed with Anderson as a tactician. First of all, this pressure defense he employs requires quality athletes to prosecute it. Even if we were blessed in that way, it would still be very iffy-butty thing as to it's effectiveness against better teams. Vermont!!!!!...dismantled it with relative ease last night (what do you think Villanova will do to it?) and the net effect was players left alone for wide open shots and layups. St. John's forced a measly 11 turnovers from Vermont (while they committed 16 of their own). That's not much of a pay-off for loosely played pressure defense.That was accomplished while running our key players into the ground. This team can't afford LJ and Heron on the bench for 25% of the game. Moving on....a very disturbing stat!....The Red Storm mustered up only 6 assists for the entire game. Folks, your offense isn't functioning correctly with a stat like that....that's just pure basketball fact! It's means that your offense isn't doing a good job moving the ball. I thought we took a sizeable amount of poorly conceived shots...forced, off balance...you name it. Heron forces a number of them...penetrating into situations where he simply doesn't have the size to finish. Add to that...we're simply not a good shooting team. When Figueroa is missing, we're like Iron Man with a disabled suit. All in all, we outrebounded Vermont by 11, and believe it or not.....shot 23 more free throws (making 15 more then they did)..a stat that would usually signify a win. But the poorly conceived game plan, along with the incredibly sloppy play (Williams loses the ball just dribbling down court...are you kidding me?), simply wasn't enough to overcome what was basically a one-man team. I was screaming at the TV screen all night long asking Anderson to get someone up on Lamb, and double him when he had the ball. And that brings us to the final play. Please tell me HOW? How on god's earth do you could allow the one player that you really need to stop....to receive an inbounds pass....if he did, not double him immediately....and then give him room to dribble,,,,and put up a foul line length jumper....HOW? Everyone in Carnesecca Arena knew they wanted to put the ball in Lamb's hands. Truly, it was SO ripe for a steal! I mean, I love "Hoosiers", but the Jimmy Chipwitch final shot should only happen in the movies! But thanks to Anderson, we watched it happen on our home court. Look! Vermont played 9 kids in last night's game. 6 of them hardly scored or took a shot! There was only three of them that really required close attention on that last play. Knowing that while playing Roberts down low to prevent an alley oop, you really had an extra man to play with on defense in that situation. I think
it was safe to presume that they weren't going to call a play for Billy Bibbitt! But Anderson let himself get beat in the only way he couldn't possibly allow...and that's a damn shame! A shout out to Dunn for making that amazing clutch shot![/quote]

I believe CMA and TJ both said after the game that they had the defense set up for Lamb not receive the ball but the players just didn’t execute.[/quote]

But how do you not execute it? You designate 2 players to guard him, and tell them: "no matter what, you stay on him." If there's a pick then someone picks him up on the help defense.[/quote]

Who knows what happened Tom. I haven’t seen a replay of the final play. The coaches can only tell the players what to do , the players then have to go out and execute. Like you said , maybe there were picks and guys got confused as to who was supposed to help. It’s a new system for these guys and a lot of these guys haven’t played together before. Even our sophomores , while much improved, have very little game experience. But, if CMA and TJ said they had it covered in the huddle I Tend to believe them.
 
Agree with Doc Butler's analysis. Something else that I don't think anyone has mentioned. With 28 seconds remaining and Vermont in bounding the ball, we immediately foul an 82% free throw shooter. We should have pressured him into passing the ball and then fouled the recipient of the pass. There was plenty of time left in the game and there was no need to foul the first person who received the in bounds pass.
 
Pointing out things you disagree with is 100% fine. Just think we need to be careful not to view things in a vacuum. Imagine if CMA just lost at home to Evansville?
 
I think Vermont goes on to have a very good season, and our offense is definitely a work in progress.

I do not think we can make any big judgements on CMA as a tactician 4 games into his tenure here.

I know it is a knee jerk reaction to blame a coach after a loss to a mid major, but to be fair, we missed shots. A lot of shots. And the refs took 2 points off the board on that bullshit Heron drive in the first half. And then gave two points to Vermont when I think Champagnie clearly blocked the ball before it started to go down. In a close game, thats a 4 point swing that hurts.

Aside from those excuses, yea we missed a lot of shots. Lamb is a great player, sometimes you have to tip your cap to a great player hitting shots. It is what it is. Honestly, I came into this season expecting little to nothing because I do not think our roster stacks up to like 80% of the Big East. But if we scrap and play hard like we did yesterday I will enjoy this season despite struggles.
 
As the old saying goes, we're never as good as we look on our best day or as bad as we look on our worst. I don't think anyone would disagree that there was no way we should have let Lamb beat us on the last shot yesterday. While he was reasonably guarded by Heron (& Figgy coming over) on the shot, he should never have gotten the ball to begin with. Whether it was coaching or execution, both coaches and players learn and grow from mistakes. I like most of what I've seen from the staff to date and MA's track record is good enough for me, but then I'm admittedly not as astute as some on here. Always easy to criticize. I think we will be a fun team to watch and finish the year around .500 which is just fine for a new coach in his first year who inherited one of the more decimated Big East teams.
 
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[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=363698]Pointing out things you disagree with is 100% fine. Just think we need to be careful not to view things in a vacuum. Imagine if CMA just lost at home to Evansville?[/quote]

Or, to Winthrop.
 
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=363698]Pointing out things you disagree with is 100% fine. Just think we need to be careful not to view things in a vacuum. Imagine if CMA just lost at home to Evansville?[/quote]

Or like Nova, got wiped in every facet against Ohio State. Jay Wright looked like an awful coach that day but we know he’s not. The boys still gotta throw the ball in the hoop and defend. I think it’s a bit of an overanalysis with a team that is running with the big boys with kids who couldn’t make it off the bench last year. We lost on a buzzer beater by a potential All American in what was a hard-fought game. Yes we should have denied Lamb better. Lamb is also more talented than anybody we have on our team.
 
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Anyone who knows me knows that I haven't passed judgement on CMA yet, but come on?? We were 2.5 point favs at home. This was supposed to be a close game and it was. If we hit a few more shots and/or free throws, we win. If either Fig or Heron play like they should, we win. The kids played hard the entire game. Sure they made mistakes, but some you guys had better get used to that because we're gonna be making a whole lot more mistakes when we get to league play. This is a very flawed team, even with Dunn and Steere. That last play sucked, but Lamb is a big time player and a better athlete than he looks. Big time players figure out ways to get themselves in position to make big time shots. And lastly, not sure why everyone thinks that the Heron we saw last year is not the same Heron we'll see this year? So far that's exactly what we've seen, and something tells me that the inconsistency is going to continue. Of course, hope I'm wrong.
 
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Ah yes, this post.
In its own thread.
Always.
Like clockwork.
2,000 word single block on the genius of Buck Freeman to follow.
 
Wow, 4 games into a new season, with a new coaching staff and many new players and there are rats looking to jump off what they perceive as a sinking ship. Relax. Watch things progress or not, then complain or crow.
 
[quote="Knight" post=363719]Wow, 4 games into a new season, with a new coaching staff and many new players and there are rats looking to jump off what they perceive as a sinking ship. Relax. Watch things progress or not, then complain or crow.[/quote]

lol said the same thing in the other thread just now
But I understand, losing gets to you.
 
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I really think this team will be fine when all is said and done. We have flaws but so does every other team in this league from what I’ve seen. Seton Hall being the least flawed. Not that I’m comparing us by any means but there is not a dominant team in college basketball this year. There is an enormous amount of parity this year in college basketball. Look at some of major conference teams where they have played mid majors. Especially in the Big East, I think many of the games will be close and will come down to effort , energy and toughness. We have shown that although it’s a very small sample. I think we will continue to improve and we will have our full complement of players soon. We’ll be ok. Maybe it’s blind optimism, who knows.
 
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