2020 US News & World Report College Rankings - St. John's drops

I'm retired so this doesn't effect me much. However, I am disappointed in this ranking. When meeting other college graduates, do you even want to mention that you went to SJU? Would you encourage high school kids to apply? What actions or plans does Bobby have to move up in the rankings?
 
Uh oh. Unless I’m mistaken since Bobby has taken over the school has dropped 46 spots since his arrival. Was 133 in Harrington last year and was moving up.

Yikes.
 
Uh oh. Unless I’m mistaken since Bobby has taken over the school has dropped 46 spots since his arrival. Was 133 in Harrington last year and was moving up.

Yikes.

And dropped in the Forbes list as well.
 
[quote="Steve Knortz" post=357483]I'm retired so this doesn't effect me much. However, I am disappointed in this ranking. When meeting other college graduates, do you even want to mention that you went to SJU? Would you encourage high school kids to apply? What actions or plans does Bobby have to move up in the rankings?[/quote]

Having two juniors in high school this happens to be an area of interest to me at the moment. While rankings are certainly important there are so many factors that go into this topic that I could probably write pages on this. To answer a couple of your questions I consider St. John’s to be a good school and certainly a school to be proud of as a graduate. Both of my kids want to leave NYC for college but both know fine students that will apply to the school for a variety of reasons. I am not an alum so I am saying this with very little skin in the game. Would I recommend the school to everyone, certainly not but it can be a good fit for many. As for what the administration is doing to improve its ranking I would have to defer to others who have more intimate knowledge of the school.
 
Andrew - My daughter is a junior too, so I follow it closely. I don't get caught up in rankings and don't even mention them to my daughter, but the more I learn, the more I find it fascinating and how much of a business the college admissions game really is, as well as how subjective rankings can be based on the methodology used. Interestingly, when we were up visiting family in mid summer we did go on tours of St, John's, Fordham and Seton Hall as she prefers to not stay in NC for college. Each had their +/-. More visit in the fall. Good Luck.
 
[quote="RedStormNC" post=357535]Andrew - My daughter is a junior too, so I follow it closely. I don't get caught up in rankings and don't even mention them to my daughter, but the more I learn, the more I find it fascinating and how much of a business the college admissions game really is, as well as how subjective rankings can be based on the methodology used. Interestingly, when we were up visiting family in mid summer we did go on tours of St, John's, Fordham and Seton Hall as she prefers to not stay in NC for college. Each had their +/-. More visit in the fall. Good Luck.[/quote]

We will likely be coming down to North Carolina in the spring to see some schools. I will keep you posted.
 
[quote="Andrew" post=357536][quote="RedStormNC" post=357535]Andrew - My daughter is a junior too, so I follow it closely. I don't get caught up in rankings and don't even mention them to my daughter, but the more I learn, the more I find it fascinating and how much of a business the college admissions game really is, as well as how subjective rankings can be based on the methodology used. Interestingly, when we were up visiting family in mid summer we did go on tours of St, John's, Fordham and Seton Hall as she prefers to not stay in NC for college. Each had their +/-. More visit in the fall. Good Luck.[/quote]

We will likely be coming down to North Carolina in the spring to see some schools. I will keep you posted.[/quote]

Fwiw...The Chair of the Board of Trustees at Elon is a St. John's grad.
 
Like it or not the US News rankings drive college admissions.

Its pretty simple: the better the ranking, The more applicants.; The higher the ranking, the better the applicants.

Many schools have one or more Administrators who are charged with gaining the US New Rankings.

Below is a 2014 news article entitled "How to Game the College Rankings" which details how Northeastern University executed one of the most dramatic turnarounds in US News rankings which has in turn enhanced the schools academic footprint, its applicant pool and endowment.

[URL]https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2014/08/26/how-northeastern-gamed-the-college-rankings/[/URL]

see also:

[URL]https://www.wbur.org/news/2014/09/09/northeastern-college-ranking-system[/URL]
 
i havent been in the loop with the university for a while but one of the things the school struggles with is the retention rate and 4 year graduation rate.
 
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[quote="otis" post=357543]Like it or not the US News rankings drive college admissions.

Its pretty simple: the better the ranking, The more applicants.; The higher the ranking, the better the applicants.

Many schools have one or more Administrators who are charged with gaining the US New Rankings.

Below is a 2014 news article entitled "How to Game the College Rankings" which details how Northeastern University executed one of the most dramatic turnarounds in US News rankings which has in turn enhanced the schools academic footprint, its applicant pool and endowment.

[URL]https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2014/08/26/how-northeastern-gamed-the-college-rankings/[/URL]

see also:

[URL]https://www.wbur.org/news/2014/09/09/northeastern-college-ranking-system[/URL][/quote]

Florida State appears to be slowly pulling a Northeastern
 
[quote="Andrew" post=357636][quote="otis" post=357543]Like it or not the US News rankings drive college admissions.

Its pretty simple: the better the ranking, The more applicants.; The higher the ranking, the better the applicants.

Many schools have one or more Administrators who are charged with gaining the US New Rankings.

Below is a 2014 news article entitled "How to Game the College Rankings" which details how Northeastern University executed one of the most dramatic turnarounds in US News rankings which has in turn enhanced the schools academic footprint, its applicant pool and endowment.

[URL]https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2014/08/26/how-northeastern-gamed-the-college-rankings/[/URL]

see also:

[URL]https://www.wbur.org/news/2014/09/09/northeastern-college-ranking-system[/URL][/quote]

Florida State appears to be slowly pulling a Northeastern[/quote]

I have to ask the right people about this, but it appears that St.. John's is not strategically focused on the metrics, some of which can be manipulated, simply to climb in the rankings.

Last year I spent a couple of hours with the Dean of Professional Studies and was given a tour by her of some of the new facilities to train students in homeland security and cybersecurity and other fields of study. She is incredibly impressive and down to earth and another sign in the school's uptick in hiring quality leaders. Governmental agencies are recruiting our students because of these programs.

Tobin school of Business was given a major facelift and investment in facilities, and the new edifice is visually stunning after sundown.

Successful initiatives to attract Catholic high school students have worked. Any catholic hs kid applying to st. John's automatically receives a $2500 per year scholarship with lots more based on academic prowess. Last year 20+ Chaminade grads chose St. John's and 25+ St. Anthony grads did the same.

With our mission to the poor, we will always be more challenged than most schools in terms of retention rate and 4 year grad rates. These kids are often burdened economically and socially in ways that most of us could not imagine. Think of Rysheed Jordan's family circumstances. Every time we graduate a kid from those types of situations is a reason for every alum to feel proud. Of course overall that mission drags down rankings, but what's more important in the big picture?

Not saying there isn't room for disagreement with sju leadership but it is abundantly clear that Gempeshaw has invested in academic improvements that are not evident in highly suspect rankings.
 
Thanks Beast.

No doubt, lots of positives over last few years and it was noticeable as I went on the admissions info session and campus tour w/ my daughter.

Still, I believe any national university is at least in part focused on their national reputation, even if one way is based on an ranking list from USNWR that can be perceived in flawed or biased in methodology. My daughters counselor was on the other side at college admissions and admin for 20+ years at 5 or 6 schools. All well known names both public & private (including Loyola, catholic university which coincidentally we do plan to visit). She told the parents that it's a flat out lie if a school or admissions counselor says they dont focus on rankings, student need etc. Colleges are businesses, and no one wants to be perceived as inferior. I can tell that at the St. John's info session my daughter and I sat in, they shared quite a few other "stats" like being 2nd largest catholic college (next to DePaul (who is 50+ places spots higher on same list). Also cited the highly ranked law school, increasing SAT ranges etc. So, while it may not be a strategic focus, I'd bet people in admin were eagerly awaiting the ranking to be published and disappointed to see the ranking drop vs. saying they don't care or didn't look.

All that said, they are doing good things and I'm proud of their progress. It's very competitive and for every rank a school moves up, that means someone above them has to go backwards. Hard when you're all trying to go forward.
 
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[quote="RedStormNC" post=357715]Thanks Beast.

No doubt, lots of positives over last few years and it was noticeable as I went on the admissions info session and campus tour w/ my daughter.

Still, I believe any national university is at least in part focused on their national reputation, even if one way is based on an ranking list from USNWR that can be perceived in flawed or biased in methodology. My daughters counselor was on the other side at college admissions and admin for 20+ years at 5 or 6 schools. All well known names both public & private (including Loyola, catholic university which coincidentally we do plan to visit). She told the parents that it's a flat out lie if a school or admissions counselor says they dont focus on rankings, student need etc. Colleges are businesses, and no one wants to be perceived as inferior. I can tell that at the St. John's info session my daughter and I sat in, they shared quite a few other "stats" like being 2nd largest catholic college (next to DePaul (who is 50+ places spots higher on same list). Also cited the highly ranked law school, increasing SAT ranges etc. So, while it may not be a strategic focus, I'd bet people in admin were eagerly awaiting the ranking to be published and disappointed to see the ranking drop vs. saying they don't care or didn't look.

All that said, they are doing good things and I'm proud of their progress. It's very competitive and for every rank a school moves up, that means someone above them has to go backwards. Hard when you're all trying to go forward.[/quote]

I don't disagree with anything you've said. But I don't think it's one of those things where you anxiously await the results if you aren't playing to the metrics used to create those results.

Clearly if SJU was overwhelmingly focused on rankings they would aggressively pursue those metrics, perhaps at the expense of money spent on grants and scholarships. I'm going to guess SJU has chosen to use assets to attract better students via scholarships and also be very generous to poorer Pell eligible students in providing a lower cost college education. I'm going to see what I can find out from SJU administrators and those who are plugged into leadership.
 
Thanks Beast... will be interesting if you discover anything there.

Back to this years methodology, I read one of the notable changes this year was in evaluating schools’ six-year graduation rates. This year, the USNWR began giving weight to % of first-generation college students graduating. It also used gov't data on the % of students w/ Pell Grants for colleges that don’t report it themselves.

While these might be small % weightings compared to most heavily weighted criteria, it's hard to chase a moving target.
 
# 179 !!!!!!!!!!
Unreal......if I only knew then what I knew now I would have never attended this school. Don't get me wrong I love the school and the teams BUT come on. As an alumni this is nothing short of a embarrassment. We drop year over year. If we had not tied at #179 with mighty Gallaudet University we would be in the 180's.
Is the administration concerned, at all?
 
I think Beast is better tuned than most so I will defer to his opinion. The metrics may have changed and the number of schools submitting data may have increased. We are still middle of the pack as we have been over many years.
 
[quote="simplyred" post=357800]Alumnus[/quote]

And that’s why we are 179 :silly:
 
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[quote="Class of 72" post=357801]I think Beast is better tuned than most so I will defer to his opinion. The metrics may have changed and the number of schools submitting data may have increased. We are still middle of the pack as we have been over many years.[/quote]

One thing squarely within our mission and in alignment with the rankings is to provide better assistance to Pell eligible students to increase the odds for their success. Board members are concerned about this and JSJ could tell you about some great initiatives that some individuals have undertaken.

Clearly it serves no one any good to accept poorer students who may struggle with social conditions at home, have to work long hours at jobs to help their families, and who may be marginal students. If they fail to graduate, they lose, ate strapped with loans they can't repay, and our rankings and reputation suffers.

This can be addressable but like many things, requires money
 
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