1984/1985 Roster

The first half of the first SJU-Geo game was played with both teams feeling each out with SJU significantly outplaying Geo.In the second half Thompson upped the pressure and Geo could have won ten in a row.
SJU lost those games and any chance of a national championship when Berry was declared ineligible for the 83-84 season at SJU and went to San Jacinto where his game improved nil. He was no match against the Geo big men in 84-85.He was a different player at SJU in 85-86 with the year of college ball under his belt.
Had he played 83-84 at SJU things may have turned out differently in 84-85. SJU would have had their best team of all time.
 
GardenCity62 said:
The first half of the first SJU-Geo game was played with both teams feeling each out with SJU significantly outplaying Geo.In the second half Thompson upped the pressure and Geo could have won ten in a row.
SJU lost those games and any chance of a national championship when Berry was declared ineligible for the 83-84 season at SJU and went to San Jacinto where his game improved nil. He was no match against the Geo big men in 84-85.He was a different player at SJU in 85-86 with the year of college ball under his belt.
Had he played 83-84 at SJU things may have turned out differently in 84-85. SJU would have had their best team of all time.
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All very good points GC. The only difference is I think Walter wasn’t the designated go to guy in 84-85, Mullin was .
Walter wasn’t the featured offensive player a d didn’t see the ball enough .
I doubt the Hoyas would have been any more successful defending him in 85 if he got the ball more.
Wennington and Berry could have brought Ewing away from the basket more and opened up the offense . But , Looie , Mahoney , Rutledge never made the adjustment
Plus , Jackson playing instead of Moses would have moved the ball around the Court better
It’s all just fantasy at this point but , that team was loaded and losing 3 in a row to G’Town was more a Coaching mistake than anything else
And , what would have happened if we had played Memphis State in the semi finals , instead of Nova ?
Would the Cats prevailed in the semis against the Hoyas ? Leaving us to play Nova in the title game ?
It’s fun to make believe about but , that’s all it is .
 
SLYFOXX1968 said:
All very good points GC. The only difference is I think Walter wasn’t the designated go to guy in 84-85, Mullin was .
Walter wasn’t the featured offensive player a d didn’t see the ball enough .
I doubt the Hoyas would have been any more successful defending him in 85 if he got the ball more.
Wennington and Berry could have brought Ewing away from the basket more and opened up the offense . But , Looie , Mahoney , Rutledge never made the adjustment
Plus , Jackson playing instead of Moses would have moved the ball around the Court better
It’s all just fantasy at this point but , that team was loaded and losing 3 in a row to G’Town was more a Coaching mistake than anything else
And , what would have happened if we had played Memphis State in the semi finals , instead of Nova ?
Would the Cats prevailed in the semis against the Hoyas ? Leaving us to play Nova in the title game ?
It’s fun to make believe about but , that’s all it is .
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Wasn’t that Memphis team compromised? Coach gambling issues? I recall there was a suggestion team tanked in Final Four?
 
Joedib said:
Wasn’t that Memphis team compromised? Coach gambling issues? I recall there was a suggestion team tanked in Final Four?
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I don’t recall much about Memphis , other than Keith Lee . Nova seemed to handle him pretty well but , I could be mistaken .
It’s almost 40 years ago now . Hard to believe .
All those guys are now AARP eligible
 
SLYFOXX1968 said:
I don’t recall much about Memphis , other than Keith Lee . Nova seemed to handle him pretty well but , I could be mistaken .
It’s almost 40 years ago now . Hard to believe .
All those guys are now AARP eligible
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They became AARP eligible a decade ago (I remember a 20 years ago, a co-worker complained that AARP kept sending him material but he wasn’t 50 yet, he had just turned 49). Those upper class men then are either eligible or are close to being eligible for Social Security Benefits now with the underclass men right behind them.
 
Back to SJU-Geo which I guess I will never get out of my system. Thompson would never had Ewing chase Berry out around the free throw line. Ewing would have remained under the basket with Michael Graham guarding Berry or he could assign Ralph Dalton another seven footer to Berry.
I don’t think Berry was the player that year to dominate like he was the following year. With Mullin and Wennington leaving after 85 SJU was forced to rely more on Berry in 86 and he responded.
What might have been. Back in 85 the NCAA did not seed the top teams in the four regions and somehow SJU and Geo met in the semi finals . A few years later that would have been impossible. Geo would have been the one seed, SJU the second and would have met in the final game. If Nova beat Geo in the semis and SJU beat Memphis SJU would have played Nova for the fourth time that season in the finals.
 
GardenCity62 said:
Back to SJU-Geo which I guess I will never get out of my system. Thompson would never had Ewing chase Berry out around the free throw line. Ewing would have remained under the basket with Michael Graham guarding Berry or he could assign Ralph Dalton another seven footer to Berry.
I don’t think Berry was the player that year to dominate like he was the following year. With Mullin and Wennington leaving after 85 SJU was forced to rely more on Berry in 86 and he responded.
What might have been. Back in 85 the NCAA did not seed the top teams in the four regions and somehow SJU and Geo met in the semi finals . A few years later that would have been impossible. Geo would have been the one seed, SJU the second and would have met in the final game. If Nova beat Geo in the semis and SJU beat Memphis SJU would have played Nova for the fourth time that season in the finals.
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Michael Graham was no longer on Georgetown's squad in '84-'85. He wasn't "bringing it" in the classroom. The same Ralph Dalton that Walter Berry abused in '85-'86, huh? I understand you're speaking about Dalton as a help defender, but his lateral ability and athleticism was limited due to injuries.
 
SLYFOXX1968 said:
I don’t recall much about Memphis , other than Keith Lee . Nova seemed to handle him pretty well but , I could be mistaken .
It’s almost 40 years ago now . Hard to believe .
All those guys are now AARP eligible
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The rumors that something was awry in the Villanova win over Memphis State started the following year. Kirk was reputed to be compulsive gambler who was beholden to organized crime. The guy would apparently bet big on anything. There was an FBI investigation and that year Kirk was forced to resign. He was 50 years old, had a 158=52 win-loss record, and had led team the prior year to Final Four. Kirk never coached again. On any level. Sounds like it might have been an agreed upon deal to spare the NCAA the embarassment of a fixed Final Four.
 
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Joedib said:
The rumors that something was awry in the Villanova win over Memphis State started the following year. Kirk was reputed to be compulsive gambler who was beholden to organized crime. The guy would apparently bet big on anything. There was an FBI investigation and that year Kirk was forced to resign. He was 50 years old, had a 158=52 win-loss record, and had led team the prior year to Final Four. Kirk never coached again. On any level. Sounds like it might have been an agreed upon deal to spare the NCAA the embarassment of a fixed Final Four.
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Makes for a good story and in no way do I know or even have an opinion if it is true or not. But one can’t ignore that Kirk also had very serious legal problems, he was indicted by a grand jury a year after the FF I believe for double figure crimes including tax evasion and ticket scalping amongst other things. He eventually did time for those crimes but if I remember correctly it was a short stint and longer probation.
But no school was going to come within 100 miles of giving Kirk a job after that. One of the problems with the fixing scenario was Nova went out and played the “perfect game” against the Hoyas which kind of gave “credibility” to their first half dismantling of Memphis.
 
L J S A said:
Arrived late but assuming I'm reading this correctly, I would just like to say that if Prey is Holmgren and/or gives us 14 and 10 we are going 40-0 this season.

Admittedly, I already think we are winning it all, but those numbers would make the journey completely unstressful.
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I'd agree with that except we'd go 39-1. Even in the most idyllic situation we always at least lay one egg. I'm not the historian some members of this board are, but in 85 didn't only lose to Georgetown and ... Niagara? So my official prediction is if Prey is good enough to be ROY runner up to generational talent Victor Wembanyana then we will go 39-1 with one startling upset loss to let's say... Georgia (It's a swing state expect the unexpected!)
 
logen said:
‘

Makes for a good story and in no way do I know or even have an opinion if it is true or not. But one can’t ignore that Kirk also had very serious legal problems, he was indicted by a grand jury a year after the FF I believe for double figure crimes including tax evasion and ticket scalping amongst other things. He eventually did time for those crimes but if I remember correctly it was a short stint and longer probation.
But no school was going to come within 100 miles of giving Kirk a job after that. One of the problems with the fixing scenario was Nova went out and played the “perfect game” against the Hoyas which kind of gave “credibility” to their first half dismantling of Memphis.
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I agree with all you stated. No proof but lots of smoke. Vill beat Gt only because Harold Jensen came off the bench as a frosh and played the game of his life and Mass ran with his hot hand. Without Jensen Vill loses by double digits. His outside shooting changed the game. I was at Final Four and there were spontaneous “Harold Jensen” chants in my section. And rightfully so. Jensen never had a game like that again. He carried Vill. Back to Kirk. Lots of coaches have done far worse than ticket scalping and tax evasion and they all get rehired with a raise. Kirk had tremendous win loss record. He was a great coach. But he never coached again. Why was he the exception. Gotta wonder. He was admitted gambler with big debts. So much so he was cheating on taxes and scalping tix. Desperate. The cynic in me tells me there was more to this story. You know the FBI was specifically looking at the Memphis - Detroit and one other game that year because of wide betting anomalies.
 
Joedib said:
I agree with all you stated. No proof but lots of smoke. Vill beat Gt only because Harold Jensen came off the bench as a frosh and played the game of his life and Mass ran with his hot hand. Without Jensen Vill loses by double digits. His outside shooting changed the game. I was at Final Four and there were spontaneous “Harold Jensen” chants in my section. And rightfully so. Jensen never had a game like that again. He carried Vill. Back to Kirk. Lots of coaches have done far worse than ticket scalping and tax evasion and they all get rehired with a raise. Kirk had tremendous win loss record. He was a great coach. But he never coached again. Why was he the exception. Gotta wonder. He was admitted gambler with big debts. So much so he was cheating on taxes and scalping tix. Desperate. The cynic in me tells me there was more to this story. You know the FBI was specifically looking at the Memphis - Detroit and one other game that year because of wide betting anomalies.
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Jensen was a sophomore then
 
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