The Point Guard Debate

Joedib said:
The premise of this theory is that Pitino recruited Ian to be the pg. I doubt that is true. The suggestion is that Pitino delegated scouting these guys and only listened to third parties. That is certainly not true. Pitino is a control freak with an addiction to film.
Click to expand...
I don’t think he recruited him to be a point but after failing to get any point guards he covered it up by saying that was his plan all along.
 
I think we have to give Darling some time to prove himself. He's looked very solid, but against not-so-great competition. I think he works hard and looks to be confident with the ball, but I'm going to hold off my full judgement until after Vegas. If he can continue with to distribute the ball and not turn it over like a true PG against more high-level teams then I think we'll be in good shape with him manning the point (especially in league play). I do worry about his size and quickness, but that is why I'm interested to see how he holds up in Vegas.

As for Pitino and the portal; I'm not sure where this team would be with Lee. Lee obviously bigger and (maybe) stronger, but his numbers have been not so good in his first four games. Probably against better competition (than Dylan) I'm sure, but he is turning the ball over at a higher rate than Dylan and has been taking (and missing) a lot of shots. Again, could very well be the level of competition being the difference, but it is going to get harder for both of these guys so.....
 
Joedib said:
The premise of this theory is that Pitino recruited Ian to be the pg. I doubt that is true. The suggestion is that Pitino delegated scouting these guys and only listened to third parties. That is certainly not true. Pitino is a control freak with an addiction to film.
Click to expand...

Well, as to the first point:

nypost.com

Rick Pitino ‘100 percent sold’ on Ian Jackson changing position to fill St. John’s biggest need

Ian Jackson, the latest high-profile transfer to commit to St. John’s, is going to be the guy.
nypost.com nypost.com

stormthepaint.com

Rick Pitino anoints Ian Jackson as starting point guard for St. John's basketball

Rick Pitino is fully confident in Ian Jackson's ability to be the next great point guard for the St. John's basketball team despite his inexperience.
stormthepaint.com stormthepaint.com

keepingitheel.com

Rick Pitino's welcome message for Ian Jackson provides a surprising twist

Pitino made his plan known for what he expects from the former UNC basketball standout once he arrives on campus.
keepingitheel.com keepingitheel.com

As to the second point, given your hardcore fandom of Pitino I find it difficult to believe you don't watch his press conferences where he talks all about what other people told him and what other people saw on film.

I happen to agree with you that he probably did do some of the work and he owns the decision - except he doesn't seem willing to say that.

I also agree with you that Darling must be a better shooter than what he's shown but so far his three point shooting makes Larry Wright miss Brady Dunlap.

OK I exaggerated that last part.
 
Larry Wright said:
I don’t think he recruited him to be a point but after failing to get any point guards he covered it up by saying that was his plan all along.
Click to expand...
I think its a partial cover-up, partial "cherry on top" recruitment to seal the deal, and partial Pitino's massive ego thinking he could make Ian transform his entire basketball mindset/habits/skills overnight.

Pitino should own this. We could've had Silas. If you listen back to Dave's pod with Zach after the workout, it's clear as day we passed on him since he "wasn't a Rick type of point guard" -- which is total nonsense. They thought Ian is? Its illogical.

Rick probably thought Thornton was going to go into the portal, so he also passed on Odum and Cadeau. Team probably thought they could get Lee, but once it was clear he was a FL-lean, realized they couldn't. It seems like they never went after Boogie. Maybe something about Acaden threw him off, or he didn't want to deal with a freshman guard with promised minutes.

I do think Darling could prove to be good enough. It's why I'm not pressing the panic button. It's also kind of a shame for Ian that this season's expectations from fans is off of an insane, preventable tweet by the coach.
 
lawmanfan said:
You're talking about actual usage as opposed to proper role. Jacoby Brissett is starting for Arizona because their starting QB is hurt. So now he's a "starting QB." But we all know that what he really is is is a backup QB. (And yes I know their starting QB is not awesome either, but let's roll with that example anyway.)

The problem with this team is Pitino brought in Jackson with the idea that he would be the PG. That left him with Sanon, Sellers, and Liotopoulos at the wings. Then he figured he would go swing for the fences and he struck out on four other high-end PGs. So he said OK, I will bring in Darling as the backup PG and we'll be fine because Jackson will be able to play the point.

He then discovered that Jackson can't play the point, which left him with the backup PG as his ONLY PG. It also created a logjam at the SG/wing position which is going to be a problem for him (at the moment solved by shafting Liotopoulos, who really deserves better),.

So then he jammed Sellers into the role to see if he could do it. And he told you this week that he wanted to try Liotopoulos at it but Lefty couldn't handle the press. And he keeps finding minutes for Pohto to see if maybe he can do it.

But at the moment where he's at is that he has a backup PG who he has no choice to play as his primary PG, at least against teams that press (which is going to be everyone who has the slightest ability to do that, I would think).

It is really a miscalculation of epic proportions for a guy who thought he was putting together a Final 4 team. And when you listen to him talk about players not unusually he says things like "people told us" and "we thought" which makes you wonder if he has delegated a bit too much on the scouting front (or if the folks he has scouting maybe whiffed bigtime on the PG spot).

I like Darling. He is tough, he is a good ball handler, he's fast. After the first scrimmage he improved dramatically as a "get the ball up the floor and give it to someone else" guy. His shooting has been unimpressive, but he has scrapped for rebounds which is great. He's a liability on defense and will be when he's playing against guys who are not only better than he is but 5 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier. I would love to have him play 12-14 minutes as a change-of-pace PG to give a starting PG a breather, and to feast on somebody's second unit. It isn't his fault that we don't have a PG to play the other 26-28 minutes.

I think we'll be OK with him in league play with the exception of a few games because the league is meh. But if you look at Darling and you see "PG who plays 30 minutes a game on a Final 4 team," then we just see very different things. Which is fine- the season will tell the tale. Vegas will be a pretty good marker for how much we can get away with, and I am hoping it is more than I think we can. I also think that some other players improving (Sanon is getting there, and hopefully Jackson will also) will help him a lot - it's a team game and if you get lights-out play at 4 other spots (which has yet to happen IMO) then it helps Darling enormously.
Click to expand...
Very well said and you hit the nail on the head with it all.
 
Hey, I'm in the camp of waiting and seeing. He has shown good potential against lower competition. but the strengths he's shown in distributing and getting the ball to the open spot are valuable and translatable. Heck, a few years ago, NC State went to the Final 4 with Michael O'Connell as their very steady and capable PG. I see a lot in common. And Michael is now playing in the G League... Just sayin'.
 
redmanwest said:
Hey, I'm in the camp of waiting and seeing. He has shown good potential against lower competition. but the strengths he's shown in distributing and getting the ball to the open spot are valuable and translatable. Heck, a few years ago, NC State went to the Final 4 with Michael O'Connell as their very steady and capable PG. I see a lot in common. And Michael is now playing in the G League... Just sayin'.
Click to expand...
Agree with waiting and seeing as we have no choice at this point since this is the team that we all will live or die with but I think we all agree with much confidence that finding a high end PG for next years team will be priority one or two at the end of the season, which hopefully is after a long successful run in the tourney.
 
Larry Wright said:
As

Sanon, Sellers and Jackson can shoot
Click to expand...
Supposedly. ;) I'm sure that some of these guys can be reliable 3 pt. shooters, but they haven't shown it yet, and we have a recent history of guys with reps as shooters coming here and not exactly lighting it up.

It's way early and as a looong time Johnnie fan I always have hope.
 
Section9 said:
Supposedly. ;) I'm sure that some of these guys can be reliable 3 pt. shooters, but they haven't shown it yet, and we have a recent history of guys with reps as shooters coming here and not exactly lighting it up.

It's way early and as a looong time Johnnie fan I always have hope.
Click to expand...
3 games
Career stats are good and all 3 pass the Larry Wright eye test
 
I do not think it is fair to say Darlings play was not tested because they played against a lower level team. Players are recruited for their offensive prowess. Lesser teams get players with lesser skills.
Defense travels. Because a player plays on a lower level does not mean he cannot guard. Many lower level players are better defensive players than major conference players, they just don’t have the overall game.

How many of us have watched have watched the opponents defender and say he cannot guard that is why Darling is having success. Very few I suggest. Darling is having success because he is a good player.
 
From watching a few idaho state games last year I was very happy we got darling as I saw what he was capable of doing. I cant wait for darling to more than hold his own in vegas so we can stop saying back up point guard and just refer to him as our more than adequate to good starting point guard.
 
Eric said:
From watching a few idaho state games last year I was very happy we got darling as I saw what he was capable of doing. I cant wait for darling to more than hold his own in vegas so we can stop saying back up point guard and just refer to him as our more than adequate to good starting point guard.
Click to expand...
Vegas will be telling.... MGM sponsoring your trip Eric???
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top