Both Mr. Baker and Van Fleet frosh who led Whiichita State to the final 4 with a win against Ohio State were not highly regarded high school seniors last year, neither of whom were on anyone's top 100 list. So yes it is possible to win with freshman and under classmen. Way too much was made this year by coach Lavin re. Our young team status. State is a well coached team with a clear game plan and no players with unwarranted egos. They are a pleasure to watch.
You can win with freshman!
- Thread starter Redfaced
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ripdumaine
Member
I like Cleanthony Early too. He is out of Pine Bush and Sullivan comm coll. Better than Marco
If you're wondering where your posts went, well, by now you really should know better.
The moderators have better things to do than babysit you people while you spend more time arguing with one another than actually discussing basketball, the team, or anything else remotely relevant to this site.
The moderators have better things to do than babysit you people while you spend more time arguing with one another than actually discussing basketball, the team, or anything else remotely relevant to this site.
Thanks dad. But to reiterate my great post, 
Of Wichita States top 5 scorers 3 are seniors, 1 a junior and Baker. Vanfleet was ineffective most of the year. Anyone can have a good, breakout game. Better when it happens in the elite 8. But its the senior leadership that got them to the dance and this far in it.
The more astounding thing about Wichita St is that they lost their top 5 scorers from last year's team. Williams and Hall played 20 mins per game last year and Cotton 10. That's about all that returned. Usually mid majors who advance return a bit more experience. Of course Armstead had Pac 12 experience averaging 9 pts and 4.5 assists per game there playing about 30 minutes per game and Early was the JCD3 player of the year in 2011 AND 2012.
Looking at the other final four teams:
Louisville's top 6: 1 sr, 3 jrs and 1 soph
Syracuse's top 5: 2 srs, 2 jrs, and 1 soph
Only Michigan is getting important irreplaceable minutes from their frosh, McGary (RSCI 26), Stauskas (RSCI 78), and Robinson (RSCI 23). Two of whom are ranked higher than any recruit Lavin has brought to STJ, it must be stated. Grant for Syracuse and Hazell for Louisville are obviously good role players but hardly irreplaceable.
Of Wichita States top 5 scorers 3 are seniors, 1 a junior and Baker. Vanfleet was ineffective most of the year. Anyone can have a good, breakout game. Better when it happens in the elite 8. But its the senior leadership that got them to the dance and this far in it.The more astounding thing about Wichita St is that they lost their top 5 scorers from last year's team. Williams and Hall played 20 mins per game last year and Cotton 10. That's about all that returned. Usually mid majors who advance return a bit more experience. Of course Armstead had Pac 12 experience averaging 9 pts and 4.5 assists per game there playing about 30 minutes per game and Early was the JCD3 player of the year in 2011 AND 2012.
Looking at the other final four teams:
Louisville's top 6: 1 sr, 3 jrs and 1 soph
Syracuse's top 5: 2 srs, 2 jrs, and 1 soph
Only Michigan is getting important irreplaceable minutes from their frosh, McGary (RSCI 26), Stauskas (RSCI 78), and Robinson (RSCI 23). Two of whom are ranked higher than any recruit Lavin has brought to STJ, it must be stated. Grant for Syracuse and Hazell for Louisville are obviously good role players but hardly irreplaceable.
Of course no one has more respect for the job you mods do than me and I would never question your commitment or authoritay. So it is with temerity that I wonder: isn't the thing you say you have better things to do than exactly what moderation comprises?
"A forum moderator oversees the communication activity of an Internet forum. He monitors the interchange of contributors and makes decisions regarding content and the direction of threads. ... If the tone of a forum becomes hostile or starts to move in the direction of personal attacks, the forum moderator usually has the discretion to lock the discussion to prevent heated, interchanges. He may also be able to hide discussions he deems unworthy of further discussion."
'Babysitting you people while you argue' seems to be at the very heart of moderation. Your complaint seems to me analogous to a policeman complaining about the inconvenience of crime. If the moderators have better things to do than moderate, why are they moderators? Is it prestige? Are there prizes or secret handshakes? If so I might want to apply.
Fun:
Had you seen the 20+ posts that had to be removed because they were apropos of nothing even vaguely related to basketball, St. John's, or anything else of interest to 99% of the readers and posters, then it is possible that you would see the distinction between "moderating" and "babysitting."
Moderating is required when otherwise reasonable people run astray. It happens from time to time, even to the best of us. And the moderators' job is precisely consistent with your post, although of course your citation is to some general "interweb" description of what moderators do, as opposed to being specific to this site.
Babysitting is what happens when people who should know better decide to use the site to engage in purely personal disputes, usually despite having been warned previously. Also those who hijack threads about basketball to spend pages picking apart the semantics of other people's posts with the result of veering wildly off-topic purely to entertain themselves. Those people are on the fast track to having their posting privileges suspended.
It really shouldn't be that hard to simply talk about basketball in the basketball forum.
Austour:
Sorry your post got moved, and thanks for re-writing it. Regrettably three or four posts out of the 25 that got moved were legitimate posts, but there wasn't a good way to pick them out and retain them.
Had you seen the 20+ posts that had to be removed because they were apropos of nothing even vaguely related to basketball, St. John's, or anything else of interest to 99% of the readers and posters, then it is possible that you would see the distinction between "moderating" and "babysitting."
Moderating is required when otherwise reasonable people run astray. It happens from time to time, even to the best of us. And the moderators' job is precisely consistent with your post, although of course your citation is to some general "interweb" description of what moderators do, as opposed to being specific to this site.
Babysitting is what happens when people who should know better decide to use the site to engage in purely personal disputes, usually despite having been warned previously. Also those who hijack threads about basketball to spend pages picking apart the semantics of other people's posts with the result of veering wildly off-topic purely to entertain themselves. Those people are on the fast track to having their posting privileges suspended.
It really shouldn't be that hard to simply talk about basketball in the basketball forum.
Austour:
Sorry your post got moved, and thanks for re-writing it. Regrettably three or four posts out of the 25 that got moved were legitimate posts, but there wasn't a good way to pick them out and retain them.
I don't want to belabor the point, but thought your formulation odd. Seeing your explanation I understand better your frustration.
Being a sensitive sort I feel for those in danger of having their privileges suspended and pray they see the folly in entertaining merely themselves. Hopefully they get their acts together before the ultimate sanction is imposed. On the one hand from the perspective of a reader it can sometimes be difficult to distinguish between mere digression and malice. On the other from a management perspective absent the availability of droit du seigneur there's little point in being king if you can't lop off a few domes; besides which a little swift retribution can only serve as a good example for the surviving peasants. I feel fortunate to not have such responsibilities and am grateful to those who exercise their powers with such wisdom and restraint. No doubt the head is heavy upon which lies the the crown.
Re the subject at hand its possible to win with youngsters but either they have to be very good or the coach does. We have presently none of those luxuries so this whole discussion seems to me moot.
Your hypothesis is unquestionably correct. However, I think Sampson and Obekpa (and even possibly Harrison) will play in the NBA, though there are certainly some missing pieces. Thus I think it is the primarily the lack of the latter luxury that holds us back more so than the absence of the former.
In any event we will most certainly not be overencumbered with "youngsters" next season, so it will be interesting to see what happens.
jrhoops1949
Active member
Regarding Michigan, it took Beilein awhile to get that team going. A lot more then Lavs has had here. Would this board have been down on him? When he left WV there were who needs Beilein signs in the stands. It's true they were able to get Huggie as a quick replacement, but me, I go for John. Years ago when John was at Canasius, he would have loved the Johnnies. He might have gotten a interview, but no real look. Did we miss the boat. He never needed top 100 players to win. He needed kids who would listen.Thanks dad. But to reiterate my great post,
The more astounding thing about Wichita St is that they lost their top 5 scorers from last year's team. Williams and Hall played 20 mins per game last year and Cotton 10. That's about all that returned. Usually mid majors who advance return a bit more experience. Of course Armstead had Pac 12 experience averaging 9 pts and 4.5 assists per game there playing about 30 minutes per game and Early was the JCD3 player of the year in 2011 AND 2012.
Looking at the other final four teams:
Louisville's top 6: 1 sr, 3 jrs and 1 soph
Syracuse's top 5: 2 srs, 2 jrs, and 1 soph
Only Michigan is getting important irreplaceable minutes from their frosh, McGary (RSCI 26), Stauskas (RSCI 78), and Robinson (RSCI 23). Two of whom are ranked higher than any recruit Lavin has brought to STJ, it must be stated. Grant for Syracuse and Hazell for Louisville are obviously good role players but hardly irreplaceable.
jrhoops1949
Active member
Steve can coach. This team more then most needed a top point guard. You can say it's Steve's fault, and maybe it is. He might have thought Nuri would hold him a couple of years. We have some nice players, but more then the youth being a factor, they were a little green and wild. That s the kind of team that the right point guard can really make a difference. You mentioned Harrison as a possible NBA guy but not Pointer. I kinda think the kind of skills needed in the NBA would give Pointer the edge.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
The missing point guard is key. In a CBS segment during the Syracuse elite eight game, Seth Greenberg talked about what you need to attack the zone. You either have to beat the other team downcourt, or have a PG that can get in the lane and make things happen, and have guys that can shoot. We fail miserably at all three. No surprise we looked ugly most of the time.
jrhoops1949
Active member
Beilein and Crean and a bunch of coaches who if not HOF stuff are close took a few years to get things going when starting up with a new team. Sorry if I posted similar stuff already. Why is Steve getting beat up so much on this board. His first year here he had a roster of players, nice kids and good players all, that Norm left him. After a rough start it turned into a season that was a whole lot of fun. Without going into a lot of details seasons 2@3 had rough spots and growing pains. We can look forward to next season with a roster of players who should be on the upswing. I wish we had a top notch point guard, but as the other kids get better, they should be less in need of on the floor coaching. I can't give Steve the credit with the great way our new league is taking shape, but looking ahead things seem kinda good. Besides the Harrison situation have you guys seen such disappointing stuff going on that you would prefer Coach Steve replaced? Looking ahead I have no reason to think Steve will be getting us fine players down the road. Whatever he's done up to now has been of the hurry up variety. I'm glad Steve chose us as the school he wanted to coach, and wanted to get it out there. Thanks, and go Storm.
There are a number of our astute talent evaluators who believe that no one improves year to year and a kid defines himself with how he plays in his first five games. Especially if he's being coached by Lavin.
But seriously, while I'm not ready to appoint them all americans who really thinks these players have all reached their ceiling? CO can certainly grow a la Gorgui Dieng. Some of these guys would have cut Victor Oladipo after last season (his soph), he was across the board a lesser player than SirDom was this year. Plenty of other examples every year but this is one that I've been thinking a lot about lately.
Everyone on the team has room for improvement. That said the absence of at least a decent backup PG if not someone to challenge Branch is still a bit alarming but if Dlo returns 2-5 of Harrison, Sampson, Sanchez and Obekpa or Pointer is a group that SHOULD be able to compete in almost any conference in the country. And Pointer, if he doesn't start, would be one of the best all around 6th men in the country. PG is perfectly adequate as a 7th/8th man playing 15-20 mins per game if Jordan does indeed come. If some can't see the potential that's on them.
But seriously, while I'm not ready to appoint them all americans who really thinks these players have all reached their ceiling? CO can certainly grow a la Gorgui Dieng. Some of these guys would have cut Victor Oladipo after last season (his soph), he was across the board a lesser player than SirDom was this year. Plenty of other examples every year but this is one that I've been thinking a lot about lately.
Everyone on the team has room for improvement. That said the absence of at least a decent backup PG if not someone to challenge Branch is still a bit alarming but if Dlo returns 2-5 of Harrison, Sampson, Sanchez and Obekpa or Pointer is a group that SHOULD be able to compete in almost any conference in the country. And Pointer, if he doesn't start, would be one of the best all around 6th men in the country. PG is perfectly adequate as a 7th/8th man playing 15-20 mins per game if Jordan does indeed come. If some can't see the potential that's on them.