What are St.John's "Peer" Institutions

O

otis

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The below link is to an interactive graphics that appears on the "Chronicle of American Education".

The graphic allows you to type in the name of any one of some 1,595 school and see what other schools the selected school has identified as its "peer".

The graphic also allows you to see what other schools have identified your selected school as a "peer".

http://chronicle.com/article/Who-Does-Your-College-Think/134262/
 
Hopefully this will wake some people up. The schools perceived image and what the other University's perceive is vastly different.
 
Makes you wonder how they came up with this. The closest identificale school in the graph (which I assume means most closely identified, is Howard. Is that based on racial composition of the school, or academics? Some of the closer choices are laughable also. Northeastern is ranked in the top 50, and with the #1 co-op program in the country, is in the most highly selective category for applicants. Seton Hall, Hofstra, Pace, DePaul, yes. Columbia, BC, Georgetown, Nova are furthest away from St. John's on the chart, so presuming they aren't so closely related as a peer school.

Funny if you read the chart, SJU selected 55 schools as peers, where only 18 selected SJU as a peer.

Except for admission rate, which SJU numbers are highly suspect, and in reality mean little, the other schools SJU identifies with as peers on average:

1) have an endowment that is 80% higher
2) have a median SAT of 70 points higher
3) graduate 68% of students compared to 57% for SJU
4) despite lower enrollment on average (21,000 vs. 19,000) outspend SJU 818 million to 464 million - that despite SJU being located in one of the highest cost cities in the US.

Of the 54 schools that SJU chose as peers, only 10 of those schools selected SJU as a peer.

It's clear that our administration who chose peer schools are out of touch, and those who commented that this reflects favorably on SJU didn't take the time to read what the chart means.


St. John's University (N.Y.)
Queens, NY


55Colleges selected as peers by this college
18Colleges that selected this college as a peer
10Peer colleges that also chose this college as a peer

Rank: 324 of 1,595

St. John's U

Colleges selected as peers by St. John's U
Admission rate
43%
54%

Endowment
$303,057,055
$535,871,838


Enrollment
21,354
19,455

Expenses
$464,699,698
$818,512,041


Graduation rate
57%
68%


Median SAT
1,090
1,160
 
Columbia ? Berkeley? Uhh
Click to expand...

If you click on the number 55 on the right, you will see the schools SJU selected as peers. Berkely isn't one, but Columbia, BC, BU, and Villanova are. Someone is dreaming.
Click to expand...

That's where I got it from. University of California, Berkeley. But the other examples you gave are just as bad. Show's the disconnect between what the university perceives and what the outside world thinks of SJU.
 
Just one more piece of evidence that the Harrington years were a disaster for the school academically as well as, basketball wise.
 
Just one more piece of evidence that the Harrington years were a disaster for the school academically as well as, basketball wise.
Click to expand...

If you look at expenditures vs. similary sized schools you can see the model at SJU has always been to make money and not provide quality. The sheer notion that a school can be profitable having 40% of their student body Pell eligible and therefore also given substantial financial aid by the school in addition to Pell grants tells you that the school is hell bent on keeping costs well below other schools, letting university infrastructure and quality of faculty slide well below peer schools.
 
Columbia ? Berkeley? Uhh
Click to expand...

If you click on the number 55 on the right, you will see the schools SJU selected as peers. Berkely isn't one, but Columbia, BC, BU, and Villanova are. Someone is dreaming.
Click to expand...

As a college admissions rep, I can assuredly state that Columbia, BC, BU and Villanova are much more competitive than St John's
As an aside, back in 1972, my friend was rejected by Queensborough CC but was accepted at St John"s
I would hope (and expect) that things have changed since that time
 
Columbia ? Berkeley? Uhh
Click to expand...

If you click on the number 55 on the right, you will see the schools SJU selected as peers. Berkely isn't one, but Columbia, BC, BU, and Villanova are. Someone is dreaming.
Click to expand...

As a college admissions rep, I can assuredly state that Columbia, BC, BU and Villanova are much more competitive than St John's
As an aside, back in 1972, my friend was rejected by Queensborough CC but was accepted at St John"s
I would hope (and expect) that things have changed since that time
Click to expand...

I completely respect your knowledge and expertise in college admissions. I think it's safe for us to say that I'd rather consult with you on a tougher validation than the superiority of those 4 schools over St. John's. I know BC publishes on their web site the top 10 cross applicant competitors in rank order

Those are the following:

Top 10 Cross-Application Competitors

(in rank order)

1. Georgetown University
2. Harvard University
3. Duke University
4. University of Notre Dame
5. Brown University
6. University of Pennsylvania
7. Cornell University
8. Villanova University
9. University of Virginia
10. Dartmouth College

http://www.bc.edu/about/bc-facts.html

It would be interesting to see what this list would be for current St. John's students, which would be a better reflection than a subjective opinion of who SJU considers its peers to be.
 
Villanova. clearly.
Click to expand...

Seriously? Villanova's business school is consistently ranked from 12-25 nationwide, and is ranked as the #1 regional school in the northeast. It takes about a 2000 minimum SAT to be offered admission there.
 
Looking at the number of applicants a college receives is not a valid indicator of how difficult it is to gain admission
Many schools do not charge an application fee while many others offer a reduced fee determined on a case by case basis
 
Columbia ? Berkeley? Uhh
Click to expand...

If you click on the number 55 on the right, you will see the schools SJU selected as peers. Berkely isn't one, but Columbia, BC, BU, and Villanova are. Someone is dreaming.
Click to expand...

As a college admissions rep, I can assuredly state that Columbia, BC, BU and Villanova are much more competitive than St John's
As an aside, back in 1972, my friend was rejected by Queensborough CC but was accepted at St John"s
I would hope (and expect) that things have changed since that time
Click to expand...

I completely respect your knowledge and expertise in college admissions. I think it's safe for us to say that I'd rather consult with you on a tougher validation than the superiority of those 4 schools over St. John's. I know BC publishes on their web site the top 10 cross applicant competitors in rank order

Those are the following:

Top 10 Cross-Application Competitors

(in rank order)

1. Georgetown University
2. Harvard University
3. Duke University
4. University of Notre Dame
5. Brown University
6. University of Pennsylvania
7. Cornell University
8. Villanova University
9. University of Virginia
10. Dartmouth College

http://www.bc.edu/about/bc-facts.html

It would be interesting to see what this list would be for current St. John's students, which would be a better reflection than a subjective opinion of who SJU considers its peers to be.
Click to expand...

Here's some that I would assume:
Molloy
Hofstra
Post
Adelphi
Hartford
New Haven
Seton Hall
 
Villanova. clearly.
Click to expand...

Seriously? Villanova's business school is consistently ranked from 12-25 nationwide, and is ranked as the #1 regional school in the northeast. It takes about a 2000 minimum SAT to be offered admission there.
Click to expand...

I made Villanova with a 1810 SAT and a 89 average coming from a public high school, not being a minority, with one varsity sport, no clubs and no job on my record. They didn't offer me any money so I didn't seriously consider going though.

With that being said yeah Villanova isn't really our peer. I would say our academic peers in the region are Seton Hall, Iona, Manhattan, Pace, Sacred Heart, Baruch, Albany, Stony Brook and Marist.
 
Villanova. clearly.
Click to expand...

Seriously? Villanova's business school is consistently ranked from 12-25 nationwide, and is ranked as the #1 regional school in the northeast. It takes about a 2000 minimum SAT to be offered admission there.
Click to expand...

I made Villanova with a 1810 SAT and a 89 average coming from a public high school, not being a minority, with one varsity sport, no clubs and no job on my record. They didn't offer me any money so I didn't seriously consider going though.

With that being said yeah Villanova isn't really our peer. I would say our academic peers in the region are Seton Hall, Iona, Manhattan, Pace, Sacred Heart, Baruch, Albany, Stony Brook and Marist.
Click to expand...

I would agree with most schools listed, with the exception of Albany and Stony Brook
Both are much more competitive than St John's
 
Villanova. clearly.
Click to expand...

Seriously? Villanova's business school is consistently ranked from 12-25 nationwide, and is ranked as the #1 regional school in the northeast. It takes about a 2000 minimum SAT to be offered admission there.
Click to expand...

I made Villanova with a 1810 SAT and a 89 average coming from a public high school, not being a minority, with one varsity sport, no clubs and no job on my record. They didn't offer me any money so I didn't seriously consider going though.

With that being said yeah Villanova isn't really our peer. I would say our academic peers in the region are Seton Hall, Iona, Manhattan, Pace, Sacred Heart, Baruch, Albany, Stony Brook and Marist.
Click to expand...

I'm going to guess that you had something exceptional on your application, because to my knowledge that's considerably below admission standards at Villanova, even with other family members having attended the school.

I do think that SJU made a gigantic error in the 80s not forecasting the massive demographic shifts in Queens where they traditionally drew large numbers of Catholic HS students. By not planning, they also lost the huge population of students from LI who attended the school, and the lack of planning led directly to the growth of Hofstra, Adelphi, and especially Molloy.
 
Villanova. clearly.
Click to expand...

Seriously? Villanova's business school is consistently ranked from 12-25 nationwide, and is ranked as the #1 regional school in the northeast. It takes about a 2000 minimum SAT to be offered admission there.
Click to expand...

I made Villanova with a 1810 SAT and a 89 average coming from a public high school, not being a minority, with one varsity sport, no clubs and no job on my record. They didn't offer me any money so I didn't seriously consider going though.

With that being said yeah Villanova isn't really our peer. I would say our academic peers in the region are Seton Hall, Iona, Manhattan, Pace, Sacred Heart, Baruch, Albany, Stony Brook and Marist.
Click to expand...

I'm going to guess that you had something exceptional on your application, because to my knowledge that's considerably below admission standards at Villanova, even with other family members having attended the school.

I do think that SJU made a gigantic error in the 80s not forecasting the massive demographic shifts in Queens where they traditionally drew large numbers of Catholic HS students. By not planning, they also lost the huge population of students from LI who attended the school, and the lack of planning led directly to the growth of Hofstra, Adelphi, and especially Molloy.
Click to expand...

Nothing exceptional and no family connections. Got denied by Binghamton and Marist but made Villanova and Fordham. Go figure.
 
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