I am not expert on time outs,but have been a fan for over 60 years. I just don't understand Lavin calling a time out after we score a basket. We stop what ever momentum we have and gives the other coach to set up a play. He may about thinking that he is setting up a defense? I never saw Lou or Lapchick call at time out after we scored, they almost always used them to change momentum. Last game against NJIT he must called at least 3 time outs after we scored,I don't like it.
Time outs by Lavin
- Thread starter frank
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SJU14
Well-known member
From what I see, he doesn't like what happens that offensive sequence and wants to teach the players a lesson on the spot. Rather then wait till the next dead ball, he does it right away. I have seen other coaches do this but nowhere near as much as him. I agree that it's not the most efficient way to use timeouts but it's his style of teaching.
beast of the east
Active member
That's pretty good speculation on your part. I would want to watch that closer to see if that's his style during "real games" and not during the softer side of the schedule. Today, most coaches utilize timeouts largely in two ways: 1) to disrupt the other teams momentum when things are going badly, and 2) late game strategy such as drawing up plays. John Wooden always said that using timeouts in manner #1 is a sign of weakness, and Lavin, as a Wooden disciple, probably agrees with that somewhat.
This is something of a strange theory. We have say 60 possessions per game. We shoot 40 percent from the floor, meaning that about 35 of those possessions are complete and abject failures. Master teacher Lavin cannot in 20 hours of practice time per week correct his offensive scheme past the 60 percent failure mark. On the other hand, out of the other 25 successful possessions, where the ball actually goes through the hoop, Lavin sees something "he doesn't like" and so calls a TO to correct the success, with 30 seconds of insightful commentary.
I have an alternative theory: Lavin is awful.
SJU14
Well-known member
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Just because the ball goes in the hoop doesn't mean it was a well run set on offense. I've seen some ugly baskets scored by this team, and these timeouts were called last game a few times after Sheed Jordan scored. I think it has to do with the "hectic" offense that has been visible the first few games of the year.
Like I said, it's Lavin's way of teaching on the spot and not many coaches do it, as those timeouts can be used to actually call a play in crunch time or to stop momentum.
Just because the ball goes in the hoop doesn't mean it was a well run set on offense. I've seen some ugly baskets scored by this team, and these timeouts were called last game a few times after Sheed Jordan scored. I think it has to do with the "hectic" offense that has been visible the first few games of the year.
Like I said, it's Lavin's way of teaching on the spot and not many coaches do it, as those timeouts can be used to actually call a play in crunch time or to stop momentum.
His timeout usage is awful. Went on about it ad nauseam last season.
Not to be harsh, but I wonder how much of those one one in game teaching moments are intended for the camera & reinforcing his image. Frankly for the money $ SJU pays him, let's have less of that & more attention to in game strategy, adjustments. Most programs rely on assistants for the individual guidance during TOs. I am just so weary of the "lessons of life" and "teaching moments" espoused by Lav. There may be room for some of that, but let's not forget the purpose of paying him big $$ is to win games. Otherwise hire Tony Robbins, the Pope or Dalai Lama.
Not to be harsh, but I wonder how much of those one one in game teaching moments are intended for the camera & reinforcing his image. Frankly for the money $ SJU pays him, let's have less of that & more attention to in game strategy, adjustments. Most programs rely on assistants for the individual guidance during TOs. I am just so weary of the "lessons of life" and "teaching moments" espoused by Lav. There may be room for some of that, but let's not forget the purpose of paying him big $$ is to win games. Otherwise hire Tony Robbins, the Pope or Dalai Lama.
Yeah that's pretty harsh.
Not to be harsh, but I wonder how much of those one one in game teaching moments are intended for the camera & reinforcing his image. Frankly for the money $ SJU pays him, let's have less of that & more attention to in game strategy, adjustments. Most programs rely on assistants for the individual guidance during TOs. I am just so weary of the "lessons of life" and "teaching moments" espoused by Lav. There may be room for some of that, but let's not forget the purpose of paying him big $$ is to win games. Otherwise hire Tony Robbins, the Pope or Dalai Lama.
Wow the Daiai Lama then we could get some interesting colored unies
Avon Barksdale
Member
The only coach I can remember who is as bad as him with the time outs is Pete Gillen.
SJU14
Well-known member
Funny during the Knicks game today JR Smith was trying to beat his man, he pulled up and hit a tough fadeaway mid range jumper that went in. Refs blew the whistle as the ball was in the air and said that that Derek Fischer called a timeout before the shot. JR looked back at Fischer with a "wtf" look. Kinda reminded me of something Lavin would do.
I hopefully will be disciplined enough to not repeat the same criticisms all year but the truth is that was the same team we have seen for the last 4 years. Undisciplined on defense, diving for steals and deflections and individual play on offense. Not sure what he could possibly teach in a time out when in 4 years there has seemingly been no lessons learned.
I LIKE LAVIN. I think he works hard ,handles the players well, concerned about the players ,terrific spokesman for the University, etc.
I just don't understand his time outs.Timeouts ,in my mind, should be used to change momentum or save time ,if losing, at near the end of a game.
I just don't understand his time outs.Timeouts ,in my mind, should be used to change momentum or save time ,if losing, at near the end of a game.
I have met and like Lavin also but as Paultzman says earlier in this thread he is paid to coach basketball which at this level means winning; which means showing improvement in the program year to year. Frankly, I also met and thought Roberts was a nicer guy than Lavin and cared just as much about the players and school. They share that and unfortunately, coaching results.
beast of the east
Active member
Maybe you can compare Roberts and lavin on a dollars per win basis, since Lavin earns 3-4x as much as Roberts did. But at least we don't have to listen to nonsense that beating St. Francis in a dogfight is a real achievement, and its an honor to make the NIT.