The Scheme on HBO 3/31
- Thread starter Moose
- Start date
SJU14
Well-known member
[quote="Moose" post=383916]This stuff is chilling.
First 15 minutes were excruciatingly slow but then it took off like a rocket ship.[/quote]
Good documentary and it explains a lot about how “The Scheme” works. Unfortunately, everything we heard on the wire taps were all stuff the NCAA has heard before and apparently they don’t care, and it doesn’t seem like that’s changing soon.
First 15 minutes were excruciatingly slow but then it took off like a rocket ship.[/quote]
Good documentary and it explains a lot about how “The Scheme” works. Unfortunately, everything we heard on the wire taps were all stuff the NCAA has heard before and apparently they don’t care, and it doesn’t seem like that’s changing soon.
Moose
Well-known member
[quote="SJU14" post=383919][quote="Moose" post=383916]This stuff is chilling.
First 15 minutes were excruciatingly slow but then it took off like a rocket ship.[/quote]
Good documentary and it explains a lot about how “The Scheme” works. Unfortunately, everything we heard on the wire taps were all stuff the NCAA has heard before and apparently they don’t care, and it doesn’t seem like that’s changing soon.[/quote]
Have to wonder if this reignites that discussion though
First 15 minutes were excruciatingly slow but then it took off like a rocket ship.[/quote]
Good documentary and it explains a lot about how “The Scheme” works. Unfortunately, everything we heard on the wire taps were all stuff the NCAA has heard before and apparently they don’t care, and it doesn’t seem like that’s changing soon.[/quote]
Have to wonder if this reignites that discussion though
Thanks Moose. I haven’t seen it but I am interested. For those with HBO the next showings are:
Thursday 4/2 at 3:55
Thursday 4/2 at 9:30
As you can tell, I have enough quarantine time to search my Directv showings. Ready to go bat shit crazy without sports.
Thursday 4/2 at 3:55
Thursday 4/2 at 9:30
As you can tell, I have enough quarantine time to search my Directv showings. Ready to go bat shit crazy without sports.
i do think we see changes in the next couple years... think we have to with certain states legalizing athletes getting compensated for their likeness... forget the exact amendment, but there was a thread on here about it.
I liked hearing Will Wade's convo again.... does he ever say "We offered x$".... no.... but anyone with a brain knows what he is implying. If the NCAA can look past having a head coach say that... might as well make it a free market.
Would absolutely love to see what the true money makers in football are making.
I liked hearing Will Wade's convo again.... does he ever say "We offered x$".... no.... but anyone with a brain knows what he is implying. If the NCAA can look past having a head coach say that... might as well make it a free market.
Would absolutely love to see what the true money makers in football are making.
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$$$ speaks
LSU athletic director Scott Woodward's statement on "The Scheme:"
“We are aware of the documentary first aired on March 31, 2020, on HBO. There is no change to Coach Will Wade’s employment status at LSU and we will continue to cooperate with all reviews into this matter.”
LSU athletic director Scott Woodward's statement on "The Scheme:"
“We are aware of the documentary first aired on March 31, 2020, on HBO. There is no change to Coach Will Wade’s employment status at LSU and we will continue to cooperate with all reviews into this matter.”
[quote="Paultzman" post=383935]$$$ speaks
LSU athletic director Scott Woodward's statement on "The Scheme:"
“We are aware of the documentary first aired on March 31, 2020, on HBO. There is no change to Coach Will Wade’s employment status at LSU and we will continue to cooperate with all reviews into this matter.”[/quote]
#winatallcosts
It's one thing to cheat but then to get caught red handed and just thumb your noses at it is quite another.
LSU athletic director Scott Woodward's statement on "The Scheme:"
“We are aware of the documentary first aired on March 31, 2020, on HBO. There is no change to Coach Will Wade’s employment status at LSU and we will continue to cooperate with all reviews into this matter.”[/quote]
#winatallcosts
It's one thing to cheat but then to get caught red handed and just thumb your noses at it is quite another.
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Different topic - but this is a funny quote from Wade tied to scheduling
Wade followed up that comment by saying: “The only time people lie more than in recruiting is in scheduling.”
[URL]https://www.theadvocate.com/ba...cle_7eeca164-7389-11ea-9604-ffc091fb6104.html[/URL]
Wade followed up that comment by saying: “The only time people lie more than in recruiting is in scheduling.”
[URL]https://www.theadvocate.com/ba...cle_7eeca164-7389-11ea-9604-ffc091fb6104.html[/URL]
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I posted two years ago that I didn't understand why the Southern District would open this case. I couldn't see any compelling federal violation and I couldn't identify the victimized party. The HBO show, which admittedly was not entirely objective, did make it clear that this prosecution was deeply flawed, including some very questionable, unethical FBI behavior.
The behavior involved constituted violations of NCAA rules and the investigation and penalties should have come from the NCAA, but that's a whole other story. The feds would have better spent their time and money on investigating the behavior of NCAA headquarters.
The behavior involved constituted violations of NCAA rules and the investigation and penalties should have come from the NCAA, but that's a whole other story. The feds would have better spent their time and money on investigating the behavior of NCAA headquarters.
MarkRedman
Well-known member
[quote="bamafan" post=383946][quote="Paultzman" post=383935]$$$ speaks
LSU athletic director Scott Woodward's statement on "The Scheme:"
“We are aware of the documentary first aired on March 31, 2020, on HBO. There is no change to Coach Will Wade’s employment status at LSU and we will continue to cooperate with all reviews into this matter.”[/quote]
#winatallcosts
It's one thing to cheat but then to get caught red handed and just thumb your noses at it is quite another.[/quote]
The only time Wade lies is when he moves his lips
What's ironic to me is that he looks like a choir boy
LSU athletic director Scott Woodward's statement on "The Scheme:"
“We are aware of the documentary first aired on March 31, 2020, on HBO. There is no change to Coach Will Wade’s employment status at LSU and we will continue to cooperate with all reviews into this matter.”[/quote]
#winatallcosts
It's one thing to cheat but then to get caught red handed and just thumb your noses at it is quite another.[/quote]
The only time Wade lies is when he moves his lips
What's ironic to me is that he looks like a choir boy
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
Back in 1974, there was big media coverage of the recently completed federal investigation of the "Superfecta Scandal" at several NY harness racetracks. Take a look at how the government described its case, as reported by the N.Y. Times:
"The Government had called its case a “mosaic of corruption” in which betting groups headed by Gerry netted $1‐million by bribing drivers to fix 43 superfecta races last year.
Defense lawyers called the case a “mirage concocted out of conjecture, innuendo and inference.” They argued that Gerry, a horse broker known to many of the drivers, beat the superfecta with handicapping and a “con” that enabled him to use other's people's money. Gerry's promises to financial backers that he had various drivers “in my pocket,” the defense contended, were simply the words of an expert tout.
How could Gerry be convicted if seven other nondriver defendants and all the drivers weren't? The answer probably lies in the testimony of Alan Cantor, a Government witness who said Gerry had given him $800 to finish out of the first four in a superfecta with a horse named San Marco.
Gerry's attorney argued that Cantor had told the Federal Bureau of Investigation the $800 was money Gerry owed him, and did not change his story until the trial. Under cross‐examination, Cantor admitted he told Gerry the horse had no chance of finishing in the first four anyway.
As to any of the driver defendants on trial, no direct evidence of a bribe was ever produced.
“The Government kept switching its theory,” said Arnold Roseman, attorney for one of the acquitted drivers, Real Cormier. “They changed their bills of particulars five times. First, it was drivers being bribed to lose. When that theory started falling apart, it was drivers being bribed to win. How can you bribe a driver to win?”
Michael Pollack, the aggressive 30‐year‐old chief prosecutor, took satisfaction in the fact that “bribery has been established.” Apparently, he still thinks harness racing is generally crooked.
“My mother goes to Brandywine Raceway once a year,” said Pollack, “and she always tells me, ‘they're thieves.’ When the indictments came out last December, she said on the phone, ‘I told you they were fixed.’”
Two unknowns were convicted of bribing harness drivers to lose. None of the drivers were convicted. First, the prosecution argued they were paid to lose, and then argued they were paid to win. The prosecution had 1 main witness, who may not have been all that credible. I think he had 2 horses in his stable, and was not a big name.
Starting to sound familiar? A "Mosaic of Corruption" vs. "We have your playbook". In the corrupt world of college basketball recruiting, not a single head coach was even indicted. A number of unknown or barely known names were convicted. The main government witness was flipped to avoid a ton of jail time. Some coaches said things on wiretapped conversations made one wonder what the heck was going on here. I thought "The Scheme" was an excellent documentary, primarily because Dawkins was a great narrator. Other than that, it will be business as usual.
"The Government had called its case a “mosaic of corruption” in which betting groups headed by Gerry netted $1‐million by bribing drivers to fix 43 superfecta races last year.
Defense lawyers called the case a “mirage concocted out of conjecture, innuendo and inference.” They argued that Gerry, a horse broker known to many of the drivers, beat the superfecta with handicapping and a “con” that enabled him to use other's people's money. Gerry's promises to financial backers that he had various drivers “in my pocket,” the defense contended, were simply the words of an expert tout.
How could Gerry be convicted if seven other nondriver defendants and all the drivers weren't? The answer probably lies in the testimony of Alan Cantor, a Government witness who said Gerry had given him $800 to finish out of the first four in a superfecta with a horse named San Marco.
Gerry's attorney argued that Cantor had told the Federal Bureau of Investigation the $800 was money Gerry owed him, and did not change his story until the trial. Under cross‐examination, Cantor admitted he told Gerry the horse had no chance of finishing in the first four anyway.
As to any of the driver defendants on trial, no direct evidence of a bribe was ever produced.
“The Government kept switching its theory,” said Arnold Roseman, attorney for one of the acquitted drivers, Real Cormier. “They changed their bills of particulars five times. First, it was drivers being bribed to lose. When that theory started falling apart, it was drivers being bribed to win. How can you bribe a driver to win?”
Michael Pollack, the aggressive 30‐year‐old chief prosecutor, took satisfaction in the fact that “bribery has been established.” Apparently, he still thinks harness racing is generally crooked.
“My mother goes to Brandywine Raceway once a year,” said Pollack, “and she always tells me, ‘they're thieves.’ When the indictments came out last December, she said on the phone, ‘I told you they were fixed.’”
Two unknowns were convicted of bribing harness drivers to lose. None of the drivers were convicted. First, the prosecution argued they were paid to lose, and then argued they were paid to win. The prosecution had 1 main witness, who may not have been all that credible. I think he had 2 horses in his stable, and was not a big name.
Starting to sound familiar? A "Mosaic of Corruption" vs. "We have your playbook". In the corrupt world of college basketball recruiting, not a single head coach was even indicted. A number of unknown or barely known names were convicted. The main government witness was flipped to avoid a ton of jail time. Some coaches said things on wiretapped conversations made one wonder what the heck was going on here. I thought "The Scheme" was an excellent documentary, primarily because Dawkins was a great narrator. Other than that, it will be business as usual.
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Ray Morgan
Well-known member
College basketball recruiting is like pro wrestling. Everything is allowed as long as the referee isn't looking. Certain programs are untouchable. This investigation is proof of that.
prjohnnies
Member
Finally watched this. Despite knowing the back story, it was really interesting and even more powerful. The voicemail clips of Sean Miller, Book and especially Will Wade are incredible. The stuff they have Wade saying on tape - jesus - it is nuts that he has a job still.
Also interesting was Dawkins quote on the agent, Andy Miller. To paraphrase, Dawkins says something to the effect of "Andy has been kids forever. Every single one. Long before I knew him". What's interesting about that is you'll recall speculation at the outset of this that Seton Hall was going to be in the NCAA cross-hairs. The reason for that was the relationship between Andy Miller and Isiah Whitehead (and, potentially, Tiny Morton). I have no doubt that Whitehead/Tiny had stuff going on while they were at the Hall, and likewise no doubt that Kevin Willard knew about it but was willing to live with the risk because he was about to be fired. Had Whitehead stayed another year at the Hall, they would have been in trouble IMO. Willard and the Hall seemed to have dodged a major bullet with that one.
Also interesting was Dawkins quote on the agent, Andy Miller. To paraphrase, Dawkins says something to the effect of "Andy has been kids forever. Every single one. Long before I knew him". What's interesting about that is you'll recall speculation at the outset of this that Seton Hall was going to be in the NCAA cross-hairs. The reason for that was the relationship between Andy Miller and Isiah Whitehead (and, potentially, Tiny Morton). I have no doubt that Whitehead/Tiny had stuff going on while they were at the Hall, and likewise no doubt that Kevin Willard knew about it but was willing to live with the risk because he was about to be fired. Had Whitehead stayed another year at the Hall, they would have been in trouble IMO. Willard and the Hall seemed to have dodged a major bullet with that one.
If you haven’t watch the HBO special “The Scheme” then you should make arrangements to do so. It is entertaining and confirms the corruption tolerated by the feckless NCAA.
Defendant Christian Dawkins comes across as a super bright and personable young man with great business instincts.
I agree with Dawkin’s belief that someone of authority intervened to terminate the US Attorneys efforts before prosecution of coaches began. I also agree with Dawkin’s statement “fu*k the NCAA”.
Defendant Christian Dawkins comes across as a super bright and personable young man with great business instincts.
I agree with Dawkin’s belief that someone of authority intervened to terminate the US Attorneys efforts before prosecution of coaches began. I also agree with Dawkin’s statement “fu*k the NCAA”.