Good interview and Lavin addressing his tenure in detail.
https://twitter.com/PhavrePhan_/status/1286967514648453120?s=20
https://twitter.com/PhavrePhan_/status/1286967514648453120?s=20
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The Phavre Show S2E1 - Steve Lavin guest
- Thread starter RedStormNC
- Start date
redstorm89
Active member
steve is always classy guy and always seems to take the high road. I couldn't help but notice how many times he talked about the administration and president bobby.
ManhattAn1
Active member
Surprisingly this was a very good podcast interview highly suggest listening
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boo haarvey
Active member
[quote="Manhattan1" post=394391]Surprisingly this was a very good podcast interview highly suggest listening[/quote]
Totally agree. Lavin was surprisingly candid concerning his views on our current president. He claimed he was a lame duck his last year and he knew Mullin was likely to succeed him. He said that impacted recruiting and he was forced to tell recruits he was likely to be fired. Interesting to hear him credit himself for the recruitment of Shamorie Ponds.
I wonder how much of that is revisionist history. I know he wanted a contract extension and did not get it. I have no doubt that impacted recruiting. But the sense I got was that, while he was very much on the hot seat his last year, his eventual firing was not a fait accompli. His recruiting had been poor for several years and there had been a number of embarrassing off the court issues with players, including Obekpa and the Westchester Community College kid.
I also couldn’t help but observe the irony in Lavin emphasizing the “unprecedented” rebuild he was forced to endure, which he analogized to an “expansion team.” My recollection is that he left the cupboard similarly bare after he left.
As is usually the case, I suspect the truth is somewhere in between what Lavin and his detractors say. For my part, I would have stuck with him despite his obvious flaws.
Two NCAAs and two NITs in five years was quite an achievement considering where the program was at the time of his hire. And Lavin achieved that while fighting cancer and dealing with the death of his father.
I’m mindful, however, of the fact that several of his teams significantly underachieved. The stacked team that culminated its season with horrific losses to Providence (Obekpa refused to come back in the game) and Robert Morris in the NIT was particularly embarrassing. And let’s not forget his last NCAA team (of which only six guys played meaningful minutes) would not have been competitive had both Phil Green and Chris Obekpa reneged on their decisions to transfer. There was always drama with Lavin’s kids.
Totally agree. Lavin was surprisingly candid concerning his views on our current president. He claimed he was a lame duck his last year and he knew Mullin was likely to succeed him. He said that impacted recruiting and he was forced to tell recruits he was likely to be fired. Interesting to hear him credit himself for the recruitment of Shamorie Ponds.
I wonder how much of that is revisionist history. I know he wanted a contract extension and did not get it. I have no doubt that impacted recruiting. But the sense I got was that, while he was very much on the hot seat his last year, his eventual firing was not a fait accompli. His recruiting had been poor for several years and there had been a number of embarrassing off the court issues with players, including Obekpa and the Westchester Community College kid.
I also couldn’t help but observe the irony in Lavin emphasizing the “unprecedented” rebuild he was forced to endure, which he analogized to an “expansion team.” My recollection is that he left the cupboard similarly bare after he left.
As is usually the case, I suspect the truth is somewhere in between what Lavin and his detractors say. For my part, I would have stuck with him despite his obvious flaws.
Two NCAAs and two NITs in five years was quite an achievement considering where the program was at the time of his hire. And Lavin achieved that while fighting cancer and dealing with the death of his father.
I’m mindful, however, of the fact that several of his teams significantly underachieved. The stacked team that culminated its season with horrific losses to Providence (Obekpa refused to come back in the game) and Robert Morris in the NIT was particularly embarrassing. And let’s not forget his last NCAA team (of which only six guys played meaningful minutes) would not have been competitive had both Phil Green and Chris Obekpa reneged on their decisions to transfer. There was always drama with Lavin’s kids.
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[quote="Boo Harvey" post=394397]
I also couldn’t help but observe the irony in Lavin emphasizing the “unprecedented” rebuild he was forced to endure, which he analogized to an “expansion team.” My recollection is that he left the cupboard similarly bare after he left.
[/quote]
To me the expansion comment was more about number of bodies than talent level.
Lavin inherited a lineup where 8 of the 10 returning players were seniors, and after Quincy Roberts left he only had one inherited player returning for his second year. In that way it is like an expansion team with 90% new players, 100% after Stith quit 23 games into the 2nd season.
Lavin left at least 3 returnees in Amar, Christian and Felix, even if Obekpa and Jordan didn't return, though it is MVHO that Lavin would have convinced Obekpa to stay. He also had a few guys signed in Doughty, Sampson and Barnes-Thompkins, and had done some good leg work on guys like Mussinin, Lovett and Yakwe.
Not saying Lavin left a treasure for Mullin but a bit different.
I also couldn’t help but observe the irony in Lavin emphasizing the “unprecedented” rebuild he was forced to endure, which he analogized to an “expansion team.” My recollection is that he left the cupboard similarly bare after he left.
[/quote]
To me the expansion comment was more about number of bodies than talent level.
Lavin inherited a lineup where 8 of the 10 returning players were seniors, and after Quincy Roberts left he only had one inherited player returning for his second year. In that way it is like an expansion team with 90% new players, 100% after Stith quit 23 games into the 2nd season.
Lavin left at least 3 returnees in Amar, Christian and Felix, even if Obekpa and Jordan didn't return, though it is MVHO that Lavin would have convinced Obekpa to stay. He also had a few guys signed in Doughty, Sampson and Barnes-Thompkins, and had done some good leg work on guys like Mussinin, Lovett and Yakwe.
Not saying Lavin left a treasure for Mullin but a bit different.
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boo haarvey
Active member
[quote="austour" post=394564][quote="Boo Harvey" post=394397]
I also couldn’t help but observe the irony in Lavin emphasizing the “unprecedented” rebuild he was forced to endure, which he analogized to an “expansion team.” My recollection is that he left the cupboard similarly bare after he left.
[/quote]
To me the expansion comment was more about number of bodies than talent level.
Lavin inherited a lineup where 8 of the 10 returning players were seniors, and after Quincy Roberts left he only had one inherited player returning for his second year. In that way it is like an expansion team with 90% new players, 100% after Stith quit 23 games into the 2nd season.
Lavin left at least 3 returnees in Amar, Christian and Felix, even if Obekpa and Jordan didn't return, though it is MVHO that Lavin would have convinced Obekpa to stay. He also had a few guys signed in Doughty, Sampson and Barnes-Thompkins, and had done some good leg work on guys like Mussinin, Lovett and Yakwe.
Not saying Lavin left a treasure for Mullin but a bit different.[/quote]
Doughty was not eligible his first year nor was LoVett. Barnes-Tompkins was not an impact recruit — believe he played for New Mexico Highlands. Sampson turned out to be pretty mediocre and none of Yakwe, Mussini, Jones, Balamu, or Amar were ever Big East level kids. As for Obekpa, I can’t remember how in the world Lavin could have taken him back after what happened.
With the exception of perhaps the post Stripgate team, Mullin’s first team was the least talented and overmatched SJU team we’ve fielded in our history. Safe to say Lavin left the cupboard pretty damn bare.
I also couldn’t help but observe the irony in Lavin emphasizing the “unprecedented” rebuild he was forced to endure, which he analogized to an “expansion team.” My recollection is that he left the cupboard similarly bare after he left.
[/quote]
To me the expansion comment was more about number of bodies than talent level.
Lavin inherited a lineup where 8 of the 10 returning players were seniors, and after Quincy Roberts left he only had one inherited player returning for his second year. In that way it is like an expansion team with 90% new players, 100% after Stith quit 23 games into the 2nd season.
Lavin left at least 3 returnees in Amar, Christian and Felix, even if Obekpa and Jordan didn't return, though it is MVHO that Lavin would have convinced Obekpa to stay. He also had a few guys signed in Doughty, Sampson and Barnes-Thompkins, and had done some good leg work on guys like Mussinin, Lovett and Yakwe.
Not saying Lavin left a treasure for Mullin but a bit different.[/quote]
Doughty was not eligible his first year nor was LoVett. Barnes-Tompkins was not an impact recruit — believe he played for New Mexico Highlands. Sampson turned out to be pretty mediocre and none of Yakwe, Mussini, Jones, Balamu, or Amar were ever Big East level kids. As for Obekpa, I can’t remember how in the world Lavin could have taken him back after what happened.
With the exception of perhaps the post Stripgate team, Mullin’s first team was the least talented and overmatched SJU team we’ve fielded in our history. Safe to say Lavin left the cupboard pretty damn bare.
[quote="Boo Harvey" post=394591][quote="austour" post=394564][quote="Boo Harvey" post=394397]
I also couldn’t help but observe the irony in Lavin emphasizing the “unprecedented” rebuild he was forced to endure, which he analogized to an “expansion team.” My recollection is that he left the cupboard similarly bare after he left.
[/quote]
To me the expansion comment was more about number of bodies than talent level.
Lavin inherited a lineup where 8 of the 10 returning players were seniors, and after Quincy Roberts left he only had one inherited player returning for his second year. In that way it is like an expansion team with 90% new players, 100% after Stith quit 23 games into the 2nd season.
Lavin left at least 3 returnees in Amar, Christian and Felix, even if Obekpa and Jordan didn't return, though it is MVHO that Lavin would have convinced Obekpa to stay. He also had a few guys signed in Doughty, Sampson and Barnes-Thompkins, and had done some good leg work on guys like Mussinin, Lovett and Yakwe.
Not saying Lavin left a treasure for Mullin but a bit different.[/quote]
Doughty was not eligible his first year nor was LoVett. Barnes-Tompkins was not an impact recruit — believe he played for New Mexico Highlands. Sampson turned out to be pretty mediocre and none of Yakwe, Mussini, Jones, Balamu, or Amar were ever Big East level kids. As for Obekpa, I can’t remember how in the world Lavin could have taken him back after what happened.
With the exception of perhaps the post Stripgate team, Mullin’s first team was the least talented and overmatched SJU team we’ve fielded in our history. Safe to say Lavin left the cupboard pretty damn bare.[/quote]
Don't disagree with any of that however the point was about having 1 roster spot filled for 12/13 (i.e. building the entire roster like an expansion team) vs having 3-8 filled for 15/16 (i.e. your standard rebuild). Of course Lavin had an extra year to fill the slots as well.
I also couldn’t help but observe the irony in Lavin emphasizing the “unprecedented” rebuild he was forced to endure, which he analogized to an “expansion team.” My recollection is that he left the cupboard similarly bare after he left.
[/quote]
To me the expansion comment was more about number of bodies than talent level.
Lavin inherited a lineup where 8 of the 10 returning players were seniors, and after Quincy Roberts left he only had one inherited player returning for his second year. In that way it is like an expansion team with 90% new players, 100% after Stith quit 23 games into the 2nd season.
Lavin left at least 3 returnees in Amar, Christian and Felix, even if Obekpa and Jordan didn't return, though it is MVHO that Lavin would have convinced Obekpa to stay. He also had a few guys signed in Doughty, Sampson and Barnes-Thompkins, and had done some good leg work on guys like Mussinin, Lovett and Yakwe.
Not saying Lavin left a treasure for Mullin but a bit different.[/quote]
Doughty was not eligible his first year nor was LoVett. Barnes-Tompkins was not an impact recruit — believe he played for New Mexico Highlands. Sampson turned out to be pretty mediocre and none of Yakwe, Mussini, Jones, Balamu, or Amar were ever Big East level kids. As for Obekpa, I can’t remember how in the world Lavin could have taken him back after what happened.
With the exception of perhaps the post Stripgate team, Mullin’s first team was the least talented and overmatched SJU team we’ve fielded in our history. Safe to say Lavin left the cupboard pretty damn bare.[/quote]
Don't disagree with any of that however the point was about having 1 roster spot filled for 12/13 (i.e. building the entire roster like an expansion team) vs having 3-8 filled for 15/16 (i.e. your standard rebuild). Of course Lavin had an extra year to fill the slots as well.
Moose
Well-known member
Really good Pod
Was worried because Phavre has a tendency to jump in while guests are answering and we know Lav takes 10 minutes to answer a question but it was really good rapport. No cringeworthy moments. Take some things from Lav with grain of salt like knowing he was out for so long. I have no doubt he knew in his last year but not as far back as he says.
Was worried because Phavre has a tendency to jump in while guests are answering and we know Lav takes 10 minutes to answer a question but it was really good rapport. No cringeworthy moments. Take some things from Lav with grain of salt like knowing he was out for so long. I have no doubt he knew in his last year but not as far back as he says.
JohnnyFever
Active member
I like the serious Phavre as opposed to the annoying trolling Phavre 50% of the time on twitter. It was a good listen and Lavin was pretty candid. It's funny how Phavre can ask the straight to the point questions a journalist never would. All of his questions are what we think as fans. Lavin really is a great salesman because he almost made me forget how much he underachieved here when you consider he recruited like we were Villanova now back in his tenure. Just no real results to follow. Always having to worry if a kid qualifies, always expecting to underachieve, the famous weave offense where we stand around until the last few seconds, the off court drama, the major character flaws of many recruits, and knowing we would get killed after making NCAA/NIT.