The Defense

MugCostanza

Well-known member
Pitino has been saying for about two months now that the defense is nowhere near where it should be but now we've officially reached the point where it would be foolish to expect it to improve enough to make this a tournament team without a major scheme change.

The Michigan game should have been the wake up call. Michigan got anything and everything they wanted. Dug ate us up and their shooters had a field day. Then Dayton dropped 1.22 points per possession on us (104.3 is the D1 avg for those that aren't into the analytics). Now we got torched to the tune of 1.2 PPP by Boston College. For reference, Fairfield, The Citadel, Central Connecticut, Richmond, and Harvard all held BC to fewer PPP than we did. We now sit 127th in the country in adjusted defensive efficiency per KenPom.

Unfortunately, under the current defensive philosophy we're at the mercy of the type of opponent we play. Skilled bigs that can play on the perimeter - either shooting, driving, playmaking or all 3, have given us fits and that isn't going to change. Teams that can pull Joel away from the lane can get easy baskets any time they want as there is nobody protecting the rim when Jenkins, Dingle, Ledlum etc inevitably get beat off the dribble.

The three losses this year:
Michigan - Shot 58% on 2s. While their starting big Tarris Reed isn't super skilled, Will Tschetter got 16 mins and he's a pick and pop type 5 that the opposing big has to respect on the perimeter. Michigan got any shot they wanted the whole night but the driving lanes were especially opened up when he was on the floor. Joel had 1 block in the game.
Dayton - Shot 56% on 2s. DaRon Holmes is one of the best bigs in the country and while not necessarily a shooter he did hit a 3 on us and is skilled enough to make things happen with the ball in his hands on the perimeter. Joel had 0 blocks in the game
Boston College - Shot 61% on 2s. Quinten Post is one of the most underrated players in the country and must be guarded anywhere on the court. Joel had 0 blocks.

In the 3 wins against non cupcake teams this year:
North Texas - Shot 33% on 2s. Their two bigs are complete nonfactors on the perimeter. Joel had 5 blocks.
Utah - Shot 44% on 2s. Their main big and his backup don't have to be guarded outside the paint. Joel had 2 blocks.
West Virginia - Shot 40% on 2s. Edwards is very good but is a true big and doesn't pose a threat on the perimeter, neither does his backup that played when he was in foul trouble. Joel had 3 blocks.

So, in the 3 losses, the teams were able to pull Joel away from the lane and absolutely torch us at the rim, all making > 55% of the 2 point attempts. Joel combined for 1 block in those 3 games. The only other game we gave up more than 50% of 2s on makes was the opener against Stony Brook. In the 3 games we won, Joel was able to patrol the paint and combined for 10 blocks in those 3 games.

The question now is will Pitino and staff attempt to change the defensive philosophy now that it's evident the current scheme isn't really improving. To me, this roster isn't equipped to play the aggressive ball pressure on the perimeter that Pitino wants to play. While it is generating some turnovers, the downsides outweigh that. Jenkins, Dingle, Sim, and Alleyne can't stay in front of anybody and they are picking up cheap fouls often because they play with their hands more than their feet. In addition, Pitino hates allowing teams to shoot 3s against him and while I think many coaches/teams fall into the trap of overhelping off of shooters, I think the help D is going to have to be ramped up here because the current philosophy is unsustainable.

Going forward I think we get a little lucky that the Big East is comprised more of traditional physical bigs than the modern skilled shooting bigs but there will still be some issues.

UConn - Clingan obviously a true big but a nearly dominant force at that.
Marquette - Ighodaro is a true big but their backup Ben Gold is definitely a pick and pop type shooter that plays a decent amount of minutes.
Creighton - Kalkbrenner has added a 3 point shot to his game, making 3 already this season.
Villanova - Dixon a skilled big that we'll have to guard on the perimeter.
Xavier/Providence/Seton Hall/Butler - These teams generally have bigs that can't really space the floor.
Georgetown/DePaul - Have to beat them regardless.

I'll be interested in seeing if Pitino changes course midseason in regards to his style of play on the defensive end. He's been publicly, and I'm certain privately, challenging the players to be better defensively but no real strides have been made yet.
 
Maybe Coach needs to change his approach regarding defense. Teach them one chapter at a time. I think Coach may have them thinking too much. They need to be reacting, rather then pondering their play.
 
I read all these posts about the defense and I read stuff like , they’re not staying in front of there man. Well, that’s training wheels stuff as far as playing defense is concerned. I’m amazed that Pitino even has to tell them that.
 
Pitino has been saying for about two months now that the defense is nowhere near where it should be but now we've officially reached the point where it would be foolish to expect it to improve enough to make this a tournament team without a major scheme change.

The Michigan game should have been the wake up call. Michigan got anything and everything they wanted. Dug ate us up and their shooters had a field day. Then Dayton dropped 1.22 points per possession on us (104.3 is the D1 avg for those that aren't into the analytics). Now we got torched to the tune of 1.2 PPP by Boston College. For reference, Fairfield, The Citadel, Central Connecticut, Richmond, and Harvard all held BC to fewer PPP than we did. We now sit 127th in the country in adjusted defensive efficiency per KenPom.

Unfortunately, under the current defensive philosophy we're at the mercy of the type of opponent we play. Skilled bigs that can play on the perimeter - either shooting, driving, playmaking or all 3, have given us fits and that isn't going to change. Teams that can pull Joel away from the lane can get easy baskets any time they want as there is nobody protecting the rim when Jenkins, Dingle, Ledlum etc inevitably get beat off the dribble.

The three losses this year:
Michigan - Shot 58% on 2s. While their starting big Tarris Reed isn't super skilled, Will Tschetter got 16 mins and he's a pick and pop type 5 that the opposing big has to respect on the perimeter. Michigan got any shot they wanted the whole night but the driving lanes were especially opened up when he was on the floor. Joel had 1 block in the game.
Dayton - Shot 56% on 2s. DaRon Holmes is one of the best bigs in the country and while not necessarily a shooter he did hit a 3 on us and is skilled enough to make things happen with the ball in his hands on the perimeter. Joel had 0 blocks in the game
Boston College - Shot 61% on 2s. Quinten Post is one of the most underrated players in the country and must be guarded anywhere on the court. Joel had 0 blocks.

In the 3 wins against non cupcake teams this year:
North Texas - Shot 33% on 2s. Their two bigs are complete nonfactors on the perimeter. Joel had 5 blocks.
Utah - Shot 44% on 2s. Their main big and his backup don't have to be guarded outside the paint. Joel had 2 blocks.
West Virginia - Shot 40% on 2s. Edwards is very good but is a true big and doesn't pose a threat on the perimeter, neither does his backup that played when he was in foul trouble. Joel had 3 blocks.

So, in the 3 losses, the teams were able to pull Joel away from the lane and absolutely torch us at the rim, all making > 55% of the 2 point attempts. Joel combined for 1 block in those 3 games. The only other game we gave up more than 50% of 2s on makes was the opener against Stony Brook. In the 3 games we won, Joel was able to patrol the paint and combined for 10 blocks in those 3 games.

The question now is will Pitino and staff attempt to change the defensive philosophy now that it's evident the current scheme isn't really improving. To me, this roster isn't equipped to play the aggressive ball pressure on the perimeter that Pitino wants to play. While it is generating some turnovers, the downsides outweigh that. Jenkins, Dingle, Sim, and Alleyne can't stay in front of anybody and they are picking up cheap fouls often because they play with their hands more than their feet. In addition, Pitino hates allowing teams to shoot 3s against him and while I think many coaches/teams fall into the trap of overhelping off of shooters, I think the help D is going to have to be ramped up here because the current philosophy is unsustainable.

Going forward I think we get a little lucky that the Big East is comprised more of traditional physical bigs than the modern skilled shooting bigs but there will still be some issues.

UConn - Clingan obviously a true big but a nearly dominant force at that.
Marquette - Ighodaro is a true big but their backup Ben Gold is definitely a pick and pop type shooter that plays a decent amount of minutes.
Creighton - Kalkbrenner has added a 3 point shot to his game, making 3 already this season.
Villanova - Dixon a skilled big that we'll have to guard on the perimeter.
Xavier/Providence/Seton Hall/Butler - These teams generally have bigs that can't really space the floor.
Georgetown/DePaul - Have to beat them regardless.

I'll be interested in seeing if Pitino changes course midseason in regards to his style of play on the defensive end. He's been publicly, and I'm certain privately, challenging the players to be better defensively but no real strides have been made yet.
This is an outstanding analysis. The only thing that I could nitpick about is that the Utah starting center (Brandon Carleson) has hit 11 threes this year and has to be respected at the arc.


I have seen us start to improve at showing help without the overcommit. But, we continue to struggle stopping the dribble and anything that involves an on ball screen. But, great job picking up that we lose that safety net whenever Joel is forced to guard away from the rim.
 
i said it on another thread, but we're not going to win with a full court press for 40 minutes.

i also think this is holding up the development of the bench. if our starting unit can't play D our bench is even worse.

i hope coach can make adjustments implementing a scheme that is better suited for the talent we have.
 
This is an outstanding analysis. The only thing that I could nitpick about is that the Utah starting center (Brandon Carleson) has hit 11 threes this year and has to be respected at the arc.


I have seen us start to improve at showing help without the overcommit. But, we continue to struggle stopping the dribble and anything that involves an on ball screen. But, great job picking up that we lose that safety net whenever Joel is forced to guard away from the rim.
Fortunately for us Utah played 7'1 Lawson Lovering for 29 mins against us which allowed Soriano to guard him most of the game instead of having to chase Carlson around the perimeter. They likely would have been better off going small but probably didn't want Carlson matched up with Soriano on the other end.
 
Pitino has been saying for about two months now that the defense is nowhere near where it should be but now we've officially reached the point where it would be foolish to expect it to improve enough to make this a tournament team without a major scheme change.

The Michigan game should have been the wake up call. Michigan got anything and everything they wanted. Dug ate us up and their shooters had a field day. Then Dayton dropped 1.22 points per possession on us (104.3 is the D1 avg for those that aren't into the analytics). Now we got torched to the tune of 1.2 PPP by Boston College. For reference, Fairfield, The Citadel, Central Connecticut, Richmond, and Harvard all held BC to fewer PPP than we did. We now sit 127th in the country in adjusted defensive efficiency per KenPom.

Unfortunately, under the current defensive philosophy we're at the mercy of the type of opponent we play. Skilled bigs that can play on the perimeter - either shooting, driving, playmaking or all 3, have given us fits and that isn't going to change. Teams that can pull Joel away from the lane can get easy baskets any time they want as there is nobody protecting the rim when Jenkins, Dingle, Ledlum etc inevitably get beat off the dribble.

The three losses this year:
Michigan - Shot 58% on 2s. While their starting big Tarris Reed isn't super skilled, Will Tschetter got 16 mins and he's a pick and pop type 5 that the opposing big has to respect on the perimeter. Michigan got any shot they wanted the whole night but the driving lanes were especially opened up when he was on the floor. Joel had 1 block in the game.
Dayton - Shot 56% on 2s. DaRon Holmes is one of the best bigs in the country and while not necessarily a shooter he did hit a 3 on us and is skilled enough to make things happen with the ball in his hands on the perimeter. Joel had 0 blocks in the game
Boston College - Shot 61% on 2s. Quinten Post is one of the most underrated players in the country and must be guarded anywhere on the court. Joel had 0 blocks.

In the 3 wins against non cupcake teams this year:
North Texas - Shot 33% on 2s. Their two bigs are complete nonfactors on the perimeter. Joel had 5 blocks.
Utah - Shot 44% on 2s. Their main big and his backup don't have to be guarded outside the paint. Joel had 2 blocks.
West Virginia - Shot 40% on 2s. Edwards is very good but is a true big and doesn't pose a threat on the perimeter, neither does his backup that played when he was in foul trouble. Joel had 3 blocks.

So, in the 3 losses, the teams were able to pull Joel away from the lane and absolutely torch us at the rim, all making > 55% of the 2 point attempts. Joel combined for 1 block in those 3 games. The only other game we gave up more than 50% of 2s on makes was the opener against Stony Brook. In the 3 games we won, Joel was able to patrol the paint and combined for 10 blocks in those 3 games.

The question now is will Pitino and staff attempt to change the defensive philosophy now that it's evident the current scheme isn't really improving. To me, this roster isn't equipped to play the aggressive ball pressure on the perimeter that Pitino wants to play. While it is generating some turnovers, the downsides outweigh that. Jenkins, Dingle, Sim, and Alleyne can't stay in front of anybody and they are picking up cheap fouls often because they play with their hands more than their feet. In addition, Pitino hates allowing teams to shoot 3s against him and while I think many coaches/teams fall into the trap of overhelping off of shooters, I think the help D is going to have to be ramped up here because the current philosophy is unsustainable.

Going forward I think we get a little lucky that the Big East is comprised more of traditional physical bigs than the modern skilled shooting bigs but there will still be some issues.

UConn - Clingan obviously a true big but a nearly dominant force at that.
Marquette - Ighodaro is a true big but their backup Ben Gold is definitely a pick and pop type shooter that plays a decent amount of minutes.
Creighton - Kalkbrenner has added a 3 point shot to his game, making 3 already this season.
Villanova - Dixon a skilled big that we'll have to guard on the perimeter.
Xavier/Providence/Seton Hall/Butler - These teams generally have bigs that can't really space the floor.
Georgetown/DePaul - Have to beat them regardless.

I'll be interested in seeing if Pitino changes course midseason in regards to his style of play on the defensive end. He's been publicly, and I'm certain privately, challenging the players to be better defensively but no real strides have been made yet.
Really excellent analysis. Find a way to get this to one of the AC's. I'm always amazed that with half as many assistant coaches as players, no one can figure out adjustments on the fly.
 
Why does Soriano guard the opposing center when he is bringing the ball up from the backcourt. He's not a guard. I see no defensive sense in this.
That is very frustrating to watch. I would've loved to see taylor hound that big dutch kid while he was bringing the ball up and allow soriano to settle into the paint, but pitino probably doesn't trust them to handle the switch. they haven't been particularly good at switching as it is, just constantly losing guys, so I don't blame him.
 
I think we are believing that our Defense is crap because guys aren’t dedicating themselves to Pitino principles .

I offer a different opinion . Our Guards are not Big East quick . And , that was shown in the Michigan , Dayton and now , BC game . Dingle , Ledlum especially get blown by regularly by their opponents . Jenkins not as much but , gets beat frequently too .

Sadly , Dingle , Ledlum aren’t going to get any quicker this season or , any season . They are , what they are . Not going to improve speed .

I think a lot of criticism of Jenkins isn’t his fault entirely , Pitino thought he was bringing both , Jenkins and Clayton here to be his starting Backcourt . That was the duo he wanted running his offense . The 2 of them together . Like at Iona .

But , Clayton surprised Rick an d went home to Florida . Comparing NY winters to Florida winters is easy to choose . Rick’s plans were detoured before the ink was dried on his contract and , we are suffering with that Clayton transfer . Rick had to be disappointed .

The other defection was more a decision that Rick made . Losing Slazinski , a long and very good shooter was a loss to the team . Rick brought Ledlum on Board knowing he would likely lose Quinn , who wanted to play 30 plus minutes a game . In retrospect , he took Ledlum after Ledlum determined he might not play much at Tennessee. Maybe not quick and tall enough
for the SEC? Barnes would not have led him astray . Remember Ledlum still chose Tenn in the Spring despite being wined and dined by RP .

That’s not to say Ledlum isn’t a good player but , is he a BE good player ? What does our fan base think ? Have we seen enough to make a opinion ?

The last thing is a question for RP . Why are Dingle , Ledlum , Jenkins getting more shots than Soriano ? That’s a problem .


Pitino’s presser seems to infer he was sold a bill of goods on these 2 Ivy League standouts that hasn’t translated to this team ? Who makes those decisions , Rick . ?
 
Mugs post while definite merits which I appreciate his post was so long Daniss got a pass stolen then for a Sori block then for a Ledlum drive to the hoop which didn’t end well with ended up with Ejoyce calling me to go for beer but I li e in Huntington so I couldn’t do that then 114 cmsends group o text that Ralph’s wife got pasta but we had to sit on floor with seat cover
 
I think we are believing that our Defense is crap because guys aren’t dedicating themselves to Pitino principles .

I offer a different opinion . Our Guards are not Big East quick . And , that was shown in the Michigan , Dayton and now , BC game . Dingle , Ledlum especially get blown by regularly by their opponents . Jenkins not as much but , gets beat frequently too .

Sadly , Dingle , Ledlum aren’t going to get any quicker this season or , any season . They are , what they are . Not going to improve speed .

I think a lot of criticism of Jenkins isn’t his fault entirely , Pitino thought he was bringing both , Jenkins and Clayton here to be his starting Backcourt . That was the duo he wanted running his offense . The 2 of them together . Like at Iona .

But , Clayton surprised Rick an d went home to Florida . Comparing NY winters to Florida winters is easy to choose . Rick’s plans were detoured before the ink was dried on his contract and , we are suffering with that Clayton transfer . Rick had to be disappointed .

The other defection was more a decision that Rick made . Losing Slazinski , a long and very good shooter was a loss to the team . Rick brought Ledlum on Board knowing he would likely lose Quinn , who wanted to play 30 plus minutes a game . In retrospect , he took Ledlum after Ledlum determined he might not play much at Tennessee. Maybe not quick and tall enough
for the SEC? Barnes would not have led him astray . Remember Ledlum still chose Tenn in the Spring despite being wined and dined by RP .

That’s not to say Ledlum isn’t a good player but , is he a BE good player ? What does our fan base think ? Have we seen enough to make a opinion ?

The last thing is a question for RP . Why are Dingle , Ledlum , Jenkins getting more shots than Soriano ? That’s a problem .


Pitino’s presser seems to infer he was sold a bill of goods on these 2 Ivy League standouts that hasn’t translated to this team ? Who makes those decisions , Rick . ?
Agree 100%. Especially regarding Clayton and Slazinski.
 
I don't think we ever had any real shot with Clayton, which was a shame.

Slazinski could have played SF for us. It would have been slower frontcourt than you'd want of course, but he looked way smoother than I expected when we played.

And maybe him being here forces Pitino to go zone more, which would be a good thing.
 
Pitino’s presser seems to infer he was sold a bill of goods on these 2 Ivy League standouts that hasn’t translated to this team ? Who makes those decisions , Rick . ?

Anyone have a link to the press conf where he said- or implied "he was sold a bill of goods"?
 
I think we are believing that our Defense is crap because guys aren’t dedicating themselves to Pitino principles .

I offer a different opinion . Our Guards are not Big East quick . And , that was shown in the Michigan , Dayton and now , BC game . Dingle , Ledlum especially get blown by regularly by their opponents . Jenkins not as much but , gets beat frequently too .

Sadly , Dingle , Ledlum aren’t going to get any quicker this season or , any season . They are , what they are . Not going to improve speed .

I think a lot of criticism of Jenkins isn’t his fault entirely , Pitino thought he was bringing both , Jenkins and Clayton here to be his starting Backcourt . That was the duo he wanted running his offense . The 2 of them together . Like at Iona .

But , Clayton surprised Rick an d went home to Florida . Comparing NY winters to Florida winters is easy to choose . Rick’s plans were detoured before the ink was dried on his contract and , we are suffering with that Clayton transfer . Rick had to be disappointed .

The other defection was more a decision that Rick made . Losing Slazinski , a long and very good shooter was a loss to the team . Rick brought Ledlum on Board knowing he would likely lose Quinn , who wanted to play 30 plus minutes a game . In retrospect , he took Ledlum after Ledlum determined he might not play much at Tennessee. Maybe not quick and tall enough
for the SEC? Barnes would not have led him astray . Remember Ledlum still chose Tenn in the Spring despite being wined and dined by RP .

That’s not to say Ledlum isn’t a good player but , is he a BE good player ? What does our fan base think ? Have we seen enough to make a opinion ?

The last thing is a question for RP . Why are Dingle , Ledlum , Jenkins getting more shots than Soriano ? That’s a problem .


Pitino’s presser seems to infer he was sold a bill of goods on these 2 Ivy League standouts that hasn’t translated to this team ? Who makes those decisions , Rick . ?

Agree regarding our guards. Despite what Coach has said about particular guards being “pro” worthy, our back court to date has not shown itself up to the task of playing with the guards of at least 6 or 7 Big East teams. If Michigan and BC guards had their way with our guards, I shudder to think how they may fare against some Big East team’s back courts.
 
Agree regarding our guards. Despite what Coach has said about particular guards being “pro” worthy, our back court to date has not shown itself up to the task of playing with the guards of at least 6 or 7 Big East teams. If Michigan and BC guards had their way with our guards, I shudder to think how they may fare against some Big East team’s back courts.
Thank goodness we don’t have to play the Pace Setters again !
 
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