jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/student_groans_IxokGe2wWyQqJCRq8IBTeI
STUDENT GROANS
- Thread starter jerseyshorejohnny
- Start date
Jersey,
Thanks for posting the linked article.
The linked article reports that in 2011, college graduates graduated with close to $23,000 in debt. The College Board reports that undergrad grads from our beloved St.John's left with $32,886 debt over $8K more than the national average.
Perhaps some on this site will ask you believe that massive debt for St.John's Liberal Arts grads is part of the St.John's "mission".
Thanks for posting the linked article.
The linked article reports that in 2011, college graduates graduated with close to $23,000 in debt. The College Board reports that undergrad grads from our beloved St.John's left with $32,886 debt over $8K more than the national average.
Perhaps some on this site will ask you believe that massive debt for St.John's Liberal Arts grads is part of the St.John's "mission".
jumbo_peanuts
Active member
I think the main issue is not the money, its the availability of jobs. Realistically, $23,000 isn't all that much money. It's definitely not pocket change, but I don't think $23,000 for four years is that bad.
In years past, if you had a college degree, you had a decent chance of landing a pretty good job. That is not the situation anymore. Many college graduates these days are struggling to find jobs, or are forced to take low paying jobs just to get by....
In years past, if you had a college degree, you had a decent chance of landing a pretty good job. That is not the situation anymore. Many college graduates these days are struggling to find jobs, or are forced to take low paying jobs just to get by....
Class of 72
Active member
First of all, if your friend JSJ is going to post a link please be advised that mobile device users such as myself cannot open the toilet paper otherwise known as the NY Post without purchasing an App!
Second, TCB student debt averages includes debt from both PRIVATE and PUBLIC colleges. Student debt from private colleges are much higher so your comment "undergrad grads from our beloved St.John's left with $32,886 debt over $8K more than the national average." is ignoring the fact that SJU is a PRIVATE college! If you look at LIU or NYU or most U's you would find the debt higher than SJU........of course your objective here is to bash St. John's and not LIU!
I will say this one last time-----20 year olds take out loans in excess of $20,000 for cars. There is zero R.O.I. On that loan. An education loan is a different animal.
Other stories you may find interesting: From the Huffington Post----
$24,000.
That's the average student debt in America, according to a report last year from the Project on Student Debt.
For many students, that figure is modest. Take Aleesha Nash, a graduate of New York University. "Logging into the Federal Student Aid website," she writes on the Huffington Post, "I see that today my balance is $104,104.63 for a percentage of the information in my head."
And there's Jaclyn Cabral, too. Jaclyn chose to attend Elon University in North Carolina because it's "regarded as one of the most affordable private educations." Still, she graduated $90,000 in debt.
For many of these students, paying off their loans is a nearly unsurmountable challenge. Brandon Woods, a Hampton University alum, finds himself working two jobs -- and hardly making a dent in his $58,000 deficit.
Since HuffPost College's launch in Feb. 2010, we've been documenting the stories -- your stories -- of students and graduates in crippling, suffocating debt. The students who are America's promise, its very future, and can hardly afford to keep themselves afloat. This is our third installment in the series. If you have a story to share, please email college [at] huffingtonpost [dot] com.
If you or Jersey feel the average student debt of $33,000 at SJU is exorbitant, please email college [at] huffingtonpost [dot] com.
I doubt they will publish it since other private schools, not on your agenda, have bigger horror immoral stories when it comes to student debt.
Everyone looks at this differently (and I'm not saying that this is the path others should take) but my wife and i agreed that we would do everything we could (contingent upon their academic performance) to get our kids through college debt-free. After that (financially) they were on their own. Nowadays they both have good jobs but with costs being what they are in the city they just about squeak by, On the other hand most of their friends have student loans ranging from $30,000 to $90,000 and it will take years and years before they are out from under. We never regretted our decision.
p.s. of course i envisioned my kids taking care of me when I was old and grey and now i'm old and grey and that hasn't happened yet.
p.s. of course i envisioned my kids taking care of me when I was old and grey and now i'm old and grey and that hasn't happened yet.
I find it hard to believe that the average student is leaving with "as little" as 30k or so debt considering 30k doesn't cover close to the cost of 1 year at most undergrad colleges. I don't think 33k is exorbitant nor insurmountable by any means. It is the kids coming out with 100-250k debts where the real difficulties start to become life altering. I was lucky enough to have supportive parents pick up my undergrad bills as well as my sisters. Well, my sis was on full scholarship. It served us very well as we both graduated SJU with excellent careers. Whether it is "worth it" is certainly a question that has to be asked and answered on an individual basis. For my family, it was "worth it" in every way. I was enriched on multiple levels and am happy with the way everything turned out. Granted, SJU was a bit cheaper in 1995-99.
Class of 72
Active member
Repaying a Federal Student Loan over 10 years is cheaper than leasing a Lexus SUV for $499 per month or spending $4,000 per year on cigarettes! It is a question of priorities and choices. When I mention those examples it is because of personal experience with friends kids who bitch about their loans but still smoke, lease the Lex and take a romantic vacation with their "girlfriend" to Cancun a couple of times a year costing over $3,000!!
But paying off their student loan is a "problem"!
American ingenuity. It's been shown* that among those categorized as "poor" by the Census Bureau:
"...Forty-three percent of all poor households actually own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
Eighty percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, in 1970, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 31 percent own two or more cars.
Ninety-seven percent of poor households have a color television; over half own two or more color televisions.
Seventy-eight percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.
Eighty-nine percent own microwave ovens, more than half have a stereo, and more than a third have an automatic dishwasher...."
There's something to cheer you up '72 - the fact that we're such resourceful people!
*http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2007/08/how-poor-are-americas-poor-examining-the-plague-of-poverty-in-america
The reason college is so expensive is because the government guarantees student loans and provides grants in aid. If it didn’t, no one could afford to spend 100K for a mediocre education at a mediocre university taking a ridiculous degree in gender studies or art history or any other of a myriad of similarly vapid courses of study. Without it colleges would have to lower their tuition rates or teenagers would have to find different ways to forestall their adulthoods. The fact is that most people have no need for college – they are in the first place too stupid to learn and in second place being taught nothing that they couldn’t learn through a course of self study or an apprenticeship.
The one trillion dollars in outstanding student loan debt that would otherwise have been available to productive sectors of the economy has been invested by the government in training entry level job applicants who end their university tenures with no experience and vague skills – the sort of applicants which in the normal course of things appear sua sponte. It provides lucrative cushy careers for postmodern nitwits who spend their days producing masturbatory drivel that their colleagues spend their days peer reviewing. Of all the crocks foisted upon us the modern education is the most chock full, no better than the sort of scheme that landed Bernie Madoff in prison.
The one trillion dollars in outstanding student loan debt that would otherwise have been available to productive sectors of the economy has been invested by the government in training entry level job applicants who end their university tenures with no experience and vague skills – the sort of applicants which in the normal course of things appear sua sponte. It provides lucrative cushy careers for postmodern nitwits who spend their days producing masturbatory drivel that their colleagues spend their days peer reviewing. Of all the crocks foisted upon us the modern education is the most chock full, no better than the sort of scheme that landed Bernie Madoff in prison.
jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
Business Week (Sept. 19-Sept 25, page 70) states that according to Robert B. Schwartz, a professor at Harvard's Graduate School of Education, 44%^ of those who enroll in 4 year colleges in the U.S. haven't gotten degrees after 6 years, for financial reasons or because they are not sure why they are in college.
At the same time, of the 47 million jobs that the country is expected to create by 2018, only a third will require a bachelor's degree or higher, while 30% will instead require an associate's degree or industry certificate.
At the same time, of the 47 million jobs that the country is expected to create by 2018, only a third will require a bachelor's degree or higher, while 30% will instead require an associate's degree or industry certificate.
Class of 72
Active member
In this example you are 100% correct! A big part of the problem is that American secondary schools are failing miserably in preparing students for their actual skill sets. For many, going to college is a necessity to improve and continue receiving education in the basic liberal arts to become literate and well-rounded citizens. Most students in Europe, China and Japan are way ahead of their American counterparts when they complete 12 years of schooling.
The sad truth is that America has shipped most production industries to their foreign partners and those jobs are never coming back. Many of that bottom 25% that apply to St. John's and many State and junior colleges probably would have taken jobs in that industrial sector that has disappeared. Rather than work at Wendy's, digging ditches or mowing lawns (all of which are performed by illegal aliens it seems) these kids end up, as Fun put it, extending their adolescence by going to college, dazed and confused about their futures.
There are hundreds of colleges, State, City, Private-non-profits and and growing number of for-profit schools ready to fill that void of uncertainty. If there were jobs that paid better than minimum wage after high school, many of the bottom 25% that now attend college would be working.
For the rest of the college-ready population, taking a loan is a necessity and is as American as borrowing to buy a car that is useless after 6 years.
That's a pretty funny, mostly accurate, a bit acerbic diatribe.
The term bachelor (from which we get the name for the first college degree) comes from the feudal system. Originally when you became a knight you received a fief or land-grant.. When things got worse there were many young men who became knights but were given no fiefs. They were called bachelor knights. Some might make the case that the situation is similar today. When you get a bachelor's degree you have something but you really don't have anything. :evil:
The trade school model of return on investment re-emerges in this thread, enhanced ever so much by Fun's erudition. The times certainly call for being concerned about "bang for your buck" but life and education are not nearly as linear as those who revel in having learned to count, make it out to be.