Not so sure if joining the BE helped us as much as it helped teams like Georgetown, Syracuse,UCONN, And particularly Notre Dame. One could argue that we might have been a more successful program prior to joining the league. If you consider our total irrevalence during the last 13 years, I think our program has greatly regressed! Comments!
St Johns & The Big East
- Thread starter rcatalano
- Start date
jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
Boeheim was at Syracuse for the entire ride. Calhoun was there for a good portion of it. As long as The Hoyas had a coach named Thompson they were in great shape.
After Lou, with the exception of a few years under Jarvis (with Fran's players), the wheels came off for us.
The reason the program regressed, IMO (and just about everyone else), can be traced to Jarvis (and the debacle that followed) and Norm (who I like very much but obviously he was not the answer to our collective prayers).
A great coach, top notch recruiting and stability is the recipe for a highly competitive program that enjoys long lasting success.
After Lou, with the exception of a few years under Jarvis (with Fran's players), the wheels came off for us.
The reason the program regressed, IMO (and just about everyone else), can be traced to Jarvis (and the debacle that followed) and Norm (who I like very much but obviously he was not the answer to our collective prayers).
A great coach, top notch recruiting and stability is the recipe for a highly competitive program that enjoys long lasting success.
With all due respect, I couldn't disagree more. We can't ignore the first 21 years of the league and all it did for us, and there isn't a league in the country that can touch this one from a competitiveness standpoint. What is the alternative league or approach that you would suggest would have been the better option? This is a rhetorical question, as I think you are likely just testing a theory here.
This is the right league for us. We just didn't always step up with the best talent, coaching, etc. That's on us, not on the league. When we did bring our game, the thrill of victory was great. Going to school here from 88-92, the talent of many BE teams was off the charts, and I can't imagine another league that would test us as well or be as much fun to watch.
On a side note, I have a buddy who is a big Duke fan. I told him to brace himself for what the ACC is about to become. It won't be the BE in totality, but it will be close (as will our ongoing BE). Get used to losing a few more games and picking your teeth up off the floor. That's what competition is all about in my opinion...not beating teams to a pulp. Long live the Big East and its bruising approach to CBB. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Jarvis was a very good "coach" but he was always looking for greener pastures while at St. John's. Roberts was just in over his head here. I really wish it had worked with him because I do believe that he is a good person and worked his ass off for the school. Unfortunately, he was just unable to close the deal on recruits. That and the fact that he had little coaching ability.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
The BE helped renew who SJU was from a basketball standpoint when we joined.
From 1981-1992 we were very relevant on the BBall landscape to varying degrees because of:
Chris Mullin; Wooden Award Winner and All American.
Walter Berry; Wooden Award Winner and All American.
Mark Jackson; All American.
Malik Sealy; All American.
David Russell; All Big East.
Shelton Jones; All Big East.
Willie Glass; All Big East.
Bill Wennington; All Big East.
Ron Rowan;
Jayson Williams; All Big East.
Robert Werdann;
Michael Porter;
Boo Harvey;All Big East.
This is to name a few reasons.
12 out of the 13 players were drafted by the NBA. 7 of the 13 players were MCAA.
Does anyone notice a common denominator missing in the last few years?
Great talent that was coached in a system.
We can bring talent to Queens and if it is properly coached we can be very relevant on the national bball landscape.
BOB BARKER
Member
WHAT WERE THE CHOICES..STAY IN THE ECAC AND BECOME ST FRANCIS? BECOME AN INDEPENDENT AND WIND UP LIKE ARMY(FORGET NOTRE DAME).....IT WORKED OUT BEC THE NCAA EXPANDED THE TOURNAMENT TO INCL MANY MORE AT LARGES...OTHERWISE,SJ WOULD HAVE BEEN IN TOURNEY A LOT LESS,HAVING WON B.E. 2X AND MAYBE AT LARGE 2-3X MORE...LOOK AT 1985..BTW,NEW B.E. WILL BE STEP DOWN FROM CURRENT VERSION...MAYBE 3 TEAMS WILL MAKE NCAAS NEXT YR..
Revisionist history alert. Jarvis was NOT a very good coach. he was lazy, his offense was non-existent and he was not a good recruiter. The problem was that he came here to "delegate" to his son and the others he brought along, and they were basically incompetent. He is the reason that SJU has been so decimated these past 13 years. He killed the golden goose.
westchesterjoe
Active member
The demise , to the extent it is now, for St John's BB parallels almost the entire tenure of FH.. Is that a surprise, shouldn'r be. The entire University has demised under his Presidency and now, a likely huge scandal.
Additionally, we really haven't had a really good AD since Jack Kaiser and, that's a long time ago. Many who tried the job couldn't deal with FH..
We were very competitive under Louie, a good year or 2 with Mahoney, Very Good with Fran and awful with Jarvis and Norm. Fran's dismissal by FH was the beginning of the downslide which has lasted way too long.
Yes, Jarvis did a good job with Fran's players, Artest, Barkley, Bootsy, Lavor, etc.. Hatten was good but, Showtime was injured and not 100%.
Lavin did a very good job with Norm's Players.. With his own players?
I like Lavin's showmanship and belief in his ability to become competitive in the new BE.. Year 4 and 5 should be benchmark seasons.Coaches establish their programs within 5 years .
Additionally, we really haven't had a really good AD since Jack Kaiser and, that's a long time ago. Many who tried the job couldn't deal with FH..
We were very competitive under Louie, a good year or 2 with Mahoney, Very Good with Fran and awful with Jarvis and Norm. Fran's dismissal by FH was the beginning of the downslide which has lasted way too long.
Yes, Jarvis did a good job with Fran's players, Artest, Barkley, Bootsy, Lavor, etc.. Hatten was good but, Showtime was injured and not 100%.
Lavin did a very good job with Norm's Players.. With his own players?
I like Lavin's showmanship and belief in his ability to become competitive in the new BE.. Year 4 and 5 should be benchmark seasons.Coaches establish their programs within 5 years .
By St. John's joining the Big East at the very beginning, made us the resident team in the biggest market of all in the league. That by itself ensures a certain amount of prestige in the toughest league in college basketball. I think our roller coaster history, is primarily due to some bad coaching choices and a reluctance on the part of the school to come to grips with the importance of it's basketball team adding relevancy to the school itself. Our basketball team is a huge asset to the school. The administration, I think always looked at it as something to endure. I believe those days are now behind us. I think what coach Lavin has done in the short time he has been here has helped us turn that corner once and for all. We must ensure that fact by continually investing in the program by having the best possible coaches and doing all we can to keep our facilities at the highest level and that includes our relationship with MSG. I think the Big East has been very important to St, John's and we have been a valuable piece to the league itself.
Was joining the Big East beneficial for St. John's? Definitly not as much as many of orginal members. At the inception of the conference St. John's won and lost record against:
Boston College 11-4
Uconn 1-1
Georgetown 23-11
Providence 25-15
Seton Hall 24-8
Syracuse 17-13
Villanova 30-16 As 1978-79
Take a look currently At just won and loss record with out regard to NCCA championship and final fours.
Boston College 11-4
Uconn 1-1
Georgetown 23-11
Providence 25-15
Seton Hall 24-8
Syracuse 17-13
Villanova 30-16 As 1978-79
Take a look currently At just won and loss record with out regard to NCCA championship and final fours.
jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
If you are not aware, there is a great story in the most recent Sports Illustrated on the Big East.
A picture of a St. John's/Georgetown game on the cover featuring Mullin, Berry, and Ewing .
Also 2 page picture of Walter "the Truth" Berry blocking Pearl's shot in the 1986 Big East Championship game.
Another picture of Lou, Chris and Kevin Williams.
Jack Kaiser mentioned in the article.
Happy reading !!!!
A picture of a St. John's/Georgetown game on the cover featuring Mullin, Berry, and Ewing .
Also 2 page picture of Walter "the Truth" Berry blocking Pearl's shot in the 1986 Big East Championship game.
Another picture of Lou, Chris and Kevin Williams.
Jack Kaiser mentioned in the article.
Happy reading !!!!
how did this become a "blame jarvis" bash. please... our last best years came under jarvis. with fran's players? fran couldn't coach them. jarvis could. you are what your record is.
he left better players for norm than norm left for lavin. lavin knew what to do with them. norm didn't.
the demise of the program lies not with jarvis...but the man with the hong kong suits and the rolex's...and the enabling posters who are clueless about what it takes to win in college hoops.
he left better players for norm than norm left for lavin. lavin knew what to do with them. norm didn't.
the demise of the program lies not with jarvis...but the man with the hong kong suits and the rolex's...and the enabling posters who are clueless about what it takes to win in college hoops.
Fraschilla coached the team--during his final season--to a 22-10 (13-5 and finished in 2nd place in their division in the Big East) record. I think Fraschilla did a pretty decent job, considering his point guard play was inconsistent.
Jarvis had the luxury of adding Barkley and Thornton (he sat out during Fraschilla's final season) to the bunch the following season.
It's always a good teaching moment to let the younger guys know/remember what Jarvis did to wreck the program, especially when invited to do so by a little revisionist history..
