St. John's Redmen!!

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 If Notre Dame can be called the fightinh Irish, who the hell is the NCAA to say North Dakota cannot be called the Fighting Sioux????

Updated: February 8, 2012, 1:31 PM ET
North Dakota 'Fighting Sioux' return

BISMARCK, N.D. -- The University of North Dakota will resume using its contentious Fighting Sioux nickname despite threats from the NCAA, the school's president said Wednesday, marking the latest twist in a years-long fight about a name that some consider offensive.

A state law was repealed last year that required the university to use the nickname and a logo that shows the profile of an American Indian warrior. But supporters of the name filed petitions late Tuesday demanding that the issue be put to a statewide vote.

University president Robert Kelley said the school decided to resume using the name and logo to respect the state's referendum process, which requires that the pro-nickname law be in effect while the state reviews the petition signatures.

"I want to reaffirm our respect for the laws of the state and the processes guaranteed under the North Dakota Constitution," Kelley said in a written statement Wednesday afternoon.

The NCAA has told the university that continued use of the nickname and logo would expose the school to sanctions, including preventing the university from hosting postseason sports tournaments and banning its athletes from wearing uniforms with the logo or nickname in postseason play.

An email and phone message left for NCAA spokesman Bill Williams weren't immediately returned Wednesday.

The dispute began in 2006, when the NCAA called on 19 schools with American Indian nicknames, logos and mascots that it considered "hostile and abusive" to Indians. The University of North Dakota is the only school left where the issue is in serious dispute.

The college sports governing body ordered the schools to change their nicknames or obtain permission from local tribes to keep using them. Most changed their names, although the Florida State Seminoles and the Central Michigan Chippewas were among the schools that got tribal permission to keep their nicknames.

North Dakota challenged the NCAA edict in court. In a settlement, the school agreed to begin retiring its nickname if it could not obtain consent to continue its use from North Dakota's Standing Rock and Spirit Lake Sioux tribes by Nov. 30, 2010.

Spirit Lake tribal members endorsed the name. But the Standing Rock Sioux's tribal council, which opposed the nickname, has declined to support it or to allow its tribal members to vote.

Supporters of the nickname, including some members of the Standing Rock Sioux, said they turned in petitions with more than 17,000 signatures; the required minimum is 13,452 names. Under the referendum process detailed in the North Dakota Constitution, the pro-nickname law must remain in force while Secretary of State Al Jaeger reviews the petitions.



Copyright 2012 by The Associated Press
 
As many of you know the original "Redmen" name came from the color of the uniforms, it did not have anything to do with the American Indian. We did, later adopt the Indian as a mascot. I believe our first attempt to handle the "situation" was to have the mascot changed to a student in a red tux running around as the mascot. That did not last to long. I hope we eventually go back to the name "Redmen" with an "appropriate" mascot which would have so much more tradition and is so much better then the "Red Storm" with that ridiculous bird walking around that has nothing to do with anything.
 
Quietly over the last few years I think the school has deempthasized the nickname.

For example the student chant is lets go Johnnies, Chris Mullin in a commercial for the Red/White club says let's go Johnnies, the young fan club is called the Johnnies club not the Young storm.

Not sure if the nickname will change, but I could live with the St. John's Johnnies.
 
 If Notre Dame can be called the fightinh Irish, who the hell is the NCAA to say North Dakota cannot be called the Fighting Sioux????

Updated: February 8, 2012, 1:31 PM ET
North Dakota 'Fighting Sioux' return

BISMARCK, N.D. -- The University of North Dakota will resume using its contentious Fighting Sioux nickname despite threats from the NCAA, the school's president said Wednesday, marking the latest twist in a years-long fight about a name that some consider offensive.

A state law was repealed last year that required the university to use the nickname and a logo that shows the profile of an American Indian warrior. But supporters of the name filed petitions late Tuesday demanding that the issue be put to a statewide vote.

University president Robert Kelley said the school decided to resume using the name and logo to respect the state's referendum process, which requires that the pro-nickname law be in effect while the state reviews the petition signatures.

"I want to reaffirm our respect for the laws of the state and the processes guaranteed under the North Dakota Constitution," Kelley said in a written statement Wednesday afternoon.

The NCAA has told the university that continued use of the nickname and logo would expose the school to sanctions, including preventing the university from hosting postseason sports tournaments and banning its athletes from wearing uniforms with the logo or nickname in postseason play.

An email and phone message left for NCAA spokesman Bill Williams weren't immediately returned Wednesday.

The dispute began in 2006, when the NCAA called on 19 schools with American Indian nicknames, logos and mascots that it considered "hostile and abusive" to Indians. The University of North Dakota is the only school left where the issue is in serious dispute.

The college sports governing body ordered the schools to change their nicknames or obtain permission from local tribes to keep using them. Most changed their names, although the Florida State Seminoles and the Central Michigan Chippewas were among the schools that got tribal permission to keep their nicknames.

North Dakota challenged the NCAA edict in court. In a settlement, the school agreed to begin retiring its nickname if it could not obtain consent to continue its use from North Dakota's Standing Rock and Spirit Lake Sioux tribes by Nov. 30, 2010.

Spirit Lake tribal members endorsed the name. But the Standing Rock Sioux's tribal council, which opposed the nickname, has declined to support it or to allow its tribal members to vote.

Supporters of the nickname, including some members of the Standing Rock Sioux, said they turned in petitions with more than 17,000 signatures; the required minimum is 13,452 names. Under the referendum process detailed in the North Dakota Constitution, the pro-nickname law must remain in force while Secretary of State Al Jaeger reviews the petitions.



Copyright 2012 by The Associated Press
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So the NCAA is telling the Univ of North Dakota to break the law. That's interesting, that the NCAA thinks they can do that. I give credit to their President for standing up to the NCAA. 
 
As many of you know the original "Redmen" name came from the color of the uniforms, it did not have anything to do with the American Indian. We did, later adopt the Indian as a mascot. I believe our first attempt to handle the "situation" was to have the mascot changed to a student in a red tux running around as the mascot. That did not last to long. I hope we eventually go back to the name "Redmen" with an "appropriate" mascot which would have so much more tradition and is so much better then the "Red Storm" with that ridiculous bird walking around that has nothing to do with anything.
Click to expand...
 


I was a student when we had tux man...it only lasted one year because the tux was tailored to the student who wore it and it didn't fit anyone the next year...true story
 
 I like the Thunderbird. I think it's a fine mascot. I like the Native American and Storm symbolism as well. I wouldn't have minded the Redmen name with the Thunderbird mascot.
 
 I like the Thunderbird. I think it's a fine mascot. I like the Native American and Storm symbolism as well. I wouldn't have minded the Redmen name with the Thunderbird mascot.
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I dont have any problems with it, there aren't many mascot options you have with a name like the Red Storm
 
As many of you know the original "Redmen" name came from the color of the uniforms, it did not have anything to do with the American Indian. We did, later adopt the Indian as a mascot. I believe our first attempt to handle the "situation" was to have the mascot changed to a student in a red tux running around as the mascot. That did not last to long. I hope we eventually go back to the name "Redmen" with an "appropriate" mascot which would have so much more tradition and is so much better then the "Red Storm" with that ridiculous bird walking around that has nothing to do with anything.
Click to expand...
 


I was a student when we had tux man...it only lasted one year because the tux was tailored to the student who wore it and it didn't fit anyone the next year...true story
Click to expand...
 

I actually heard that story! LOL!!
I had written to the powers-that-be back then that a guys dressed in all red spandex from head to toe would be the "red man" as a mascot. Like the guys in Blue Man group. They said thanks...great idea BUT.......
 
I say let schools keep tribal names and allow those tribes to run casinos on campus. There was always a game of sapdes going on in St. John's Hall anyways. This woul dmake it more interesting and generate more revenue for the University. 
 
 I've said in the past how much I hate the Johnnies chant and use of that as a nickname. I was shocked to hear how many people here actually said they are ok with it. Do I like Red Storm, no...but I'd rather chant Redmen than Johnnies. The St. John's University in Minnesota teams are the Johnnies, a Division 3 school. I say lets reach a middle ground and chant Let's Go St. John's b/c sadly I don't think the school will ever bring back Redmen
 
A reporter for the NY Times, back a long time ago, coined the "Redmen" for our Football team because of their red uniforms. Nothing to do with native Americans and nothing to do with basketball, at least in the beginning. 
 
Quietly over the last few years I think the school has deempthasized the nickname.

For example the student chant is lets go Johnnies, Chris Mullin in a commercial for the Red/White club says let's go Johnnies, the young fan club is called the Johnnies club not the Young storm.

Not sure if the nickname will change, but I could live with the St. John's Johnnies.
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While Johnnies is better than Red Storm (almost anything would be!), it sounds like we are a bunch of toilets!!

If the Atlanta Braves, Cleveland Indians, FSU Seminoles, etc. can still have their names/logos, why can't we be the Redmen?

I'm tired of being PC if so may others aren't and are permitted not to be
 
This seems to be the topic which never dies. The issue was mishandled 20 years ago when the question of offensive nicknames surfaced. Since most of those involved native americans/indians, let's consider a few things. This country's history with indians was brutal on both sides and, ultimately genocidal for the indians. So, it seems reasonable to me to let the relevant  tribe decide if a nickname/mascot is offensive. The Seminoles approve of the way Fla. St. depicts them, and so there is no problem. With others, as the Illini or the Fighting Sioux, there was disagreement within the tribes and when the schools were reluctant to make changes, the NCAA intervened. This usually only worsens the problem. My feeling is each school should decide for themselves whether to change or modify the status quo.
At STJ, if memory serves, Fr. Harrington, Louie, people from the ath. dept., a nun, from the faculty, and possibly a PR firm came up with Red Storm and Thunder, as a mascot. The process was flawed, and the results left few satisfied. Compare that to Marquette, which faced the identical situation. It is a Catholic, urban school using the nickname Warriors. It had an indian mascot and war chants. The school decided to make a change, but unlike STJ, they had the students, faculty and alums vote on a new nickname. After a run-off vote, Golden Eagles won out. Was everyone thrilled? No, but most either were OK with it, or at least were able to accept it, and the school moved on without an endless debate. Golden Eagles offends no one, is gender neutral, so it works for the womens teams, and lends itself to a mascot which makes sense.
This mess should have been properly resolved in the nineties, and we would have been spared the Red Tuxedo Man, The Beast, Thunder, Thunder Bird and the horrific Let's Go Johnnies chant.
 
1) The PR firm got something like 50 grand or so and people were appalled at the time, I believe.

2) There is a screen name on Redmen.com named "The Tux". Is he the guy who was the "The Tux"? And do I remember correctly that he got a scholarship for his bravery?

And... 3) Let's not forget that the students got to vote for our present mascot (I'll just leave it at that).    
 
 Johnnies would be the most ridiculous nickname ever. While we colloquially refer to ourselves as the Johnnies (and that's fine, in my opinion), it should not be our official nickname. Let St. John's, MN use it. I think we need to move on from this ubiquitous nickname conversation everytime we lose a few games.
 
we need to change the name back but not to REDMEN but rather RED MEN. Use no Native american references and jsut have a man is Red as the mascot or something (ok the mascot would not be great but at least the name would be)
 
I think the Red Injuns would be best, or this year, the Shinnecocks. The Shinnecocks are the biggest bunch of losers, but they are about to cash in our tribal recognition. Let them build their casino at Belmont and move our home court there with the St. John's Shinnecocks playing at a 12,000 seat arena. 
 
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