Some Interesting St. John's Tradition & Nostalgia

NYCRedmen

NYCRedmen

Well-known member
The other day I was fortunate enough to glance at a copy of a 1947 St. John's Yearbook and some of the things I came across were quite interesting. To begin with, even though the move to Queens didn't start until the 1950s, the University already had a "campus map/diagram" in 1947 of what the campus was going to look like. It's pretty amazing, it looks something like the Duke campus with a full capacity football stadium. Obviously things didn't work out that way as the campus today is much smaller and we never fielded a major football program.

Other interesting tidbits

- the move to the new campus was going to be to "Jamaica, Long Island"
- the President (Rev. William Mahoney), the former President (Rev. Edward Walsh) and the Spiritual Director to the College (Rev Louis Dodd) all died that year
- the school was still all male and by all accounts 98% white
- there is a fight song named "Cheer for the Red & White" which presumably was chanted during the games

As far as basketball goes, the Yearbook has a nice multi-page spread covering the 1947 season. Included is a nice write up on Joe Lapchick who is credited with 2 National Titles & 5 MET Crowns, in his last season before leaving to coach the Knicks. The team had Dick McGuire and Harry Boykoff (who would 54 points that year against St. Francis to set the all time MSG scoring record and avenging the stolen Chief Blackjack statute prank that St. Francis pulled off the year before). And the JV team had a player by the name of Jack Kaiser. Lastly there is a section welcoming Frank McGuire as the Coach Elect of both the Basketball & Baseball teams for next year.

It's clear from the book that we had a lot of pride in the basketball team back then & some bitter rivals. The book refers to CCNY as the scourge of the city LOL. It also describes the game (which St. John's won that year) as a "bitter game at a jammed Garden". It was a pretty nice nostalgic look at both the University & the basketball team.
 
 I remember reading some newspaper accounts of the 1940's Brooklyn Dodgers, where it referred to the place one of their players made their home as Astoria, Long Island
 
 the ball player was billy loes a pitcher -aka the kid from astoria -he attended Bryant HS. He passed away
a few years ago. Bryant won the city psal championship with him-- i think it was in 1948. I was a student at
bryant at that time.
Joe A. class of 1951
 
 History and tradition is a wonderful thing, unfortunately in this day and age of sports nobody seems to feel the same way. Today is all that matters! Sad!
 
 I have to disagree somewhat. I think St. John's fans of today don't appreciate history and tradition compared to fans from years past or from other schools. I don't mean this in a negative way before anyone takes offense. St. Johns fans of today don't know or chant a fight song, don't know or sing the alma mater after games, they now chant "Johnnies", to refer to team, these are just the facts. But believe me, history and tradition are alive and well with other college fans. I've been to games to see Kentucky, Kansas, Florida, just to name a few, and there is an obvious appreciation for tradition from what I've seen. At St. Johns the school is partly to blame, they do things like change the nickname without student/fan input, they get rid of things that the fans clearly embrace (remember flag boy) so it's more difficult for fans today to appreciate the things of the past. That being said, I'll take a sold out MSG packed with red clad fans any day of the week over those other fans.
 
 the ball player was billy loes a pitcher -aka the kid from astoria -he attended Bryant HS. He passed away
a few years ago. Bryant won the city psal championship with him-- i think it was in 1948. I was a student at
bryant at that time.
Joe A. class of 1951
Click to expand...

Great job with that, Joe! Thanks! 
 
 I have to disagree somewhat. I think St. John's fans of today don't appreciate history and tradition compared to fans from years past or from other schools. I don't mean this in a negative way before anyone takes offense. St. Johns fans of today don't know or chant a fight song, don't know or sing the alma mater after games, they now chant "Johnnies", to refer to team, these are just the facts. But believe me, history and tradition are alive and well with other college fans. I've been to games to see Kentucky, Kansas, Florida, just to name a few, and there is an obvious appreciation for tradition from what I've seen. At St. Johns the school is partly to blame, they do things like change the nickname without student/fan input, they get rid of things that the fans clearly embrace (remember flag boy) so it's more difficult for fans today to appreciate the things of the past. That being said, I'll take a sold out MSG packed with red clad fans any day of the week over those other fans.
Click to expand...
 

I may be mistaken, but I don't thnk there was EVER a time at SJU where the ENTIRE campus was buzzing about the team -EXCEPT for a week or so when we qualified for the final four in 1985, and even then I would say it wasn't 100%. We jsut had too many pharmacy students, too many evening students, too many students who bolted campus at 2:20 pm to head to part time jobs. Our fans even then were largely older alumni even when we sold out the joint.
 
 You may be right Beast, I can't say b/c I was not on campus during those years. However when I talk to older St. John's alums, or read about how big college basketball used to be in NYC prior to the point shaving scandal of 1951, I always get the sense that St. John's was big time with a big time following. Whenever I see old clips or photos of a St. Johns home game from the Lapchick/McGuire years I always take notice at how packed the Garden appears when the stands are in view. I don't think every school has their entire campus buzzing for their respective programs no matter how successful their team is. But you're probably right in that we do lag behind many of the so called "traditional programs", though I don't think that was always the case.
 
 the ball player was billy loes a pitcher -aka the kid from astoria -he attended Bryant HS. He passed away
a few years ago. Bryant won the city psal championship with him-- i think it was in 1948. I was a student at
bryant at that time.
Joe A. class of 1951
Click to expand...
 

Joe, I remember Billy Loes well. He had a lot of unfulfilled "potential". He also claimed to have lost a ground ball in "the lights" at Ebbetts Field. George
 
There were cultural and social factors that made the student fan base much more active and involved in sports activities, and basketball was the sport at St Johns.

The Schemerhorn campus had at least a half dozen very active and involved fraternities with large followings and all of these students went to every game whether at MSG or Lewis Avenue Gym or the 69th St.( I think ) Armory in Manhattan. Fraternities got blocks of tickets and the seats were prime, on or near the floor behind the basket at the Garden. If I had to hazard a guess, between active "brothers" and alumni and their dates, family and friends, I would say our fraternity alone had over 100 people each game.


Since the drinking age in those times was 18, there were many watering holes around MSG that became assembly points before and after games. Each fraternity and club had their own best place. I can remember jam packed bars filled wiht red sweatered fraternity men. I wish I could remember the name of the place we met but it was across the Street from the old garden either on 49th or 50th mid-block between 8th and 9th.

City schools were very competitive, especially NYU and St Johns. They were often highly rated, and the games were tense and tough. Who could forget the fight between Satch Saunders of NYU and Louie Roethel of St Johns that ended up under the scorers table. I think the year was 1957 and if anyone can recall, you certainly can correct me.

It was a city thing. The garden was a sea of red. The student section was so loud, you could not hear yourself think. The war drums were omni-present. And when St Johns was rallying, they beat a cadence throughout the garden. A previous contributor was correct in stating that at the end of games, the school song was sung.

There were students dressed as braves, war feathers, and war paint, and all; some even shedding their shirts until ushers caught them and forced them to don their clothes. The student section was on the 8th Avenue side behind the basket and it stretched from the floor to the mezzanine.

There was never ANY doubt the garden belonged to St Johns when a non-city school was in town. Some of the best games I witnessed were West Virginia with Jerry West, Cincinatti with Oscar Robertson, Bradley, Dayton, Providence, Niagara and Duquence with the Rickets brothers and Sihugo Green. Just to give some recent grads some historic perspective, I still cannot believe Connecticut is a highly rated school. In my days at St Johns, Connecticut was the equivalent of a D3 squad, a puff piece on your schedule if you were lucky enough to get them.

When I go to Carnesseca now it is like going to Radio City Music Hall. I have taken kids and now grandkids to the games. God it's so quiet and refined.
No slight on the kids today, they are what they are; and after all, they are the products of our generation.

I think we were more aggresive, passionate and more rooted in the city. We were from city precincts, Bay Ridge, Woodside, Pelham, Hollis, East New York - thats me; basically sons of blue collar workers, we all had military service to do, and we were all convinced to a man that we were going to make it big and by God, a lot of us made it.
 
 
There were cultural and social factors that made the student fan base much more active and involved in sports activities, and basketball was the sport at St Johns.

The Schemerhorn campus had at least a half dozen very active and involved fraternities with large followings and all of these students went to every game whether at MSG or Lewis Avenue Gym or the 69th St.( I think ) Armory in Manhattan. Fraternities got blocks of tickets and the seats were prime, on or near the floor behind the basket at the Garden. If I had to hazard a guess, between active "brothers" and alumni and their dates, family and friends, I would say our fraternity alone had over 100 people each game.


Since the drinking age in those times was 18, there were many watering holes around MSG that became assembly points before and after games. Each fraternity and club had their own best place. I can remember jam packed bars filled wiht red sweatered fraternity men. I wish I could remember the name of the place we met but it was across the Street from the old garden either on 49th or 50th mid-block between 8th and 9th.

City schools were very competitive, especially NYU and St Johns. They were often highly rated, and the games were tense and tough. Who could forget the fight between Satch Saunders of NYU and Louie Roethel of St Johns that ended up under the scorers table. I think the year was 1957 and if anyone can recall, you certainly can correct me.

It was a city thing. The garden was a sea of red. The student section was so loud, you could not hear yourself think. The war drums were omni-present. And when St Johns was rallying, they beat a cadence throughout the garden. A previous contributor was correct in stating that at the end of games, the school song was sung.

There were students dressed as braves, war feathers, and war paint, and all; some even shedding their shirts until ushers caught them and forced them to don their clothes. The student section was on the 8th Avenue side behind the basket and it stretched from the floor to the mezzanine.

There was never ANY doubt the garden belonged to St Johns when a non-city school was in town. Some of the best games I witnessed were West Virginia with Jerry West, Cincinatti with Oscar Robertson, Bradley, Dayton, Providence, Niagara and Duquence with the Rickets brothers and Sihugo Green. Just to give some recent grads some historic perspective, I still cannot believe Connecticut is a highly rated school. In my days at St Johns, Connecticut was the equivalent of a D3 squad, a puff piece on your schedule if you were lucky enough to get them.

When I go to Carnesseca now it is like going to Radio City Music Hall. I have taken kids and now grandkids to the games. God it's so quiet and refined.
No slight on the kids today, they are what they are; and after all, they are the products of our generation.

I think we were more aggresive, passionate and more rooted in the city. We were from city precincts, Bay Ridge, Woodside, Pelham, Hollis, East New York - thats me; basically sons of blue collar workers, we all had military service to do, and we were all convinced to a man that we were going to make it big and by God, a lot of us made it.
 
Click to expand...
 

Hello Joe,

Yours was one of the BEST posts I have ever read on REDMEN ! It was beyond EXCELLENT !!

By the way, as you are probably aware, Lou Roethel earned a doctorate degree and teaches at Nassau Community College.
 
 Agreed, great post Joe. Probably one of the best if the not the best I've read here. Almost makes me wish I was around during those days. It's clear that we not only had a great program back then but great support and fun local rivalries. I am sure with Lavin at the helm the glory days will return.
 
"Fight for old St John's, win for old St John's,
For the good old red and white.
Show them how to fight,
Let them feel your might,
For St John's must win tonight!
We will rally 'round you, ta ta ta ta*,help you win another game
And though you may be battered, you will win it just the same.
Redmen,fight ,fight,fight for victory,
A cheer for old St John's!

* senior moment

BTW, there is absolutely no reason we never had a major football team.
 
 
 the ball player was billy loes a pitcher -aka the kid from astoria -he attended Bryant HS. He passed away
a few years ago. Bryant won the city psal championship with him-- i think it was in 1948. I was a student at
bryant at that time.
Joe A. class of 1951
Click to expand...
 

Joe, I remember Billy Loes well. He had a lot of unfulfilled "potential". He also claimed to have lost a ground ball in "the lights" at Ebbetts Field. George
Click to expand...
 

He was a character, peg pants and all.
 
There were cultural and social factors that made the student fan base much more active and involved in sports activities, and basketball was the sport at St Johns.

The Schemerhorn campus had at least a half dozen very active and involved fraternities with large followings and all of these students went to every game whether at MSG or Lewis Avenue Gym or the 69th St.( I think ) Armory in Manhattan. Fraternities got blocks of tickets and the seats were prime, on or near the floor behind the basket at the Garden. If I had to hazard a guess, between active "brothers" and alumni and their dates, family and friends, I would say our fraternity alone had over 100 people each game.


Since the drinking age in those times was 18, there were many watering holes around MSG that became assembly points before and after games. Each fraternity and club had their own best place. I can remember jam packed bars filled wiht red sweatered fraternity men. I wish I could remember the name of the place we met but it was across the Street from the old garden either on 49th or 50th mid-block between 8th and 9th.

City schools were very competitive, especially NYU and St Johns. They were often highly rated, and the games were tense and tough. Who could forget the fight between Satch Saunders of NYU and Louie Roethel of St Johns that ended up under the scorers table. I think the year was 1957 and if anyone can recall, you certainly can correct me.

It was a city thing. The garden was a sea of red. The student section was so loud, you could not hear yourself think. The war drums were omni-present. And when St Johns was rallying, they beat a cadence throughout the garden. A previous contributor was correct in stating that at the end of games, the school song was sung.

There were students dressed as braves, war feathers, and war paint, and all; some even shedding their shirts until ushers caught them and forced them to don their clothes. The student section was on the 8th Avenue side behind the basket and it stretched from the floor to the mezzanine.

There was never ANY doubt the garden belonged to St Johns when a non-city school was in town. Some of the best games I witnessed were West Virginia with Jerry West, Cincinatti with Oscar Robertson, Bradley, Dayton, Providence, Niagara and Duquence with the Rickets brothers and Sihugo Green. Just to give some recent grads some historic perspective, I still cannot believe Connecticut is a highly rated school. In my days at St Johns, Connecticut was the equivalent of a D3 squad, a puff piece on your schedule if you were lucky enough to get them.

When I go to Carnesseca now it is like going to Radio City Music Hall. I have taken kids and now grandkids to the games. God it's so quiet and refined.
No slight on the kids today, they are what they are; and after all, they are the products of our generation.

I think we were more aggresive, passionate and more rooted in the city. We were from city precincts, Bay Ridge, Woodside, Pelham, Hollis, East New York - thats me; basically sons of blue collar workers, we all had military service to do, and we were all convinced to a man that we were going to make it big and by God, a lot of us made it.
 
Click to expand...
 

Hello Joe,

Yours was one of the BEST posts I have ever read on REDMEN ! It was beyond EXCELLENT !!

By the way, as you are probably aware, Lou Roethel earned a doctorate degree and teaches at Nassau Community College.
Click to expand...
 


I totally agree! Thanks Joe, you're a treasure-trove to this list.
 
 It's interesting how people used to consider Brooklyn and Queens to be LI back in the day, but today no one really does. If anything, LI resembles Queens more than ever these days and it is easier to get to than ever so you would think people would consider it LI today. Technically, BK and QNS are part of LI as a land mass and no one can dispute that. Very strange how people try to separate them so adamantly these days.
 
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