SJU Law Drops 19 Spots in US News Rankings to 98

Surprises me. I know a kid who was givena scholarship to SJU law and said that her class was filled with freshmen from presitgious schools. Maybe we need to fill it with faculty from prestigious schools.
 
This university has become a school of mediocrity!
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It always was (academically) - at least on the undergraduate level
When my buddy and I graduated HS in 1968, he was rejected by Queensborough CC and was accepted at St John's
Back then, you need an 80 average to get into "The Borough" and could get into St John's with a 75
In fact, back then, St John's gave a competitive exam for students with an 85 average to compete for 50% tuition academic scholarships
I love St John's (have 2 degrees from there) but the reality is that the undergrad school was never a beacon of academic excellence
 
St. John's Law rank in US News & World plummets from 79 to 98. Plus a $6,000 increase in tuition this year. Yikes.http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings...ate-schools/top-law-schools/law-rankings/page+4

-This should be very alarming. Especially, the 30.8% employed at graduation number.
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Too many lawyers. Cardozo in NYC is one of the top law schools in America and only 28% are employed upon graduation. There are a dozen law schools in the NY metro area but not enough high level jobs at graduation. To make matters worse, the top law firms only hire from the top 25 schools in the country.
What is alarming is that we are a very litigious country and could actually do with fewer lawyers.
We need more scientists and students in the health fields.
 
The University's reputation is mediocre at best. This is the frustrating part, because a majority of the student body are excellent and should have the same opportunities as graduates at top-50 schools. But St. John's administration refuses to make the right decisions to elevate the school.

I think Dean Simons at the Law School is trying hard to elevate the Law School's reputation and standing, and has done a lot of good things. The market for entry-level lawyers is terrible right not and overall law school enrollment is down. US News also changed their methodology to weigh graduate employment for heavily. A number of east coast schools dropped while mid-West schools improved. Brooklyn Law dropped quite a bit too. St. John's has historically been very honest and transparent with its reporting while some other schools not so much.
 
I enjoyed the school and the opportunities it provided In no way was it ever projected to be an upper .tier school It provided mainly lower and middle income families in Brooklyn ;Queens etc the means to educate their children which benefited.the city.

My hats off to the university
 
NYC schools have a 45 percent drop out rate and NYC has a large immigrant population that speaks English as a second languange. Many of those students come to St. John's and make us weaker academically.
In the 1980's SJU law graduates had the highest Bar exam pass rate in the country. Do we still hold that honor ?Pres. Ronald Reagan mentioned that in his SJU speach in March of 1985. He called SJU the New Harvard.

I went to Naasau Community college for 2 years and then I transfered to St. John's . The professors at Nassau were just as good or better then the professors at SJU. Nassau Community college professors back then ( 1980's ) were some of the highest paid professors in the region. The Nassau campus was much better then St. John's St. John's was like a HS in the 1980's. Now it's much better, looks like a real college campus now.
 
you can't marry janet reno and expect her to look like jlo after a makeover. miracles don't happen. st john's is what it is.
 
Nonsense. There are clear things St. John's can do to increase its selectivity and improve its reputation while staying true to its mission. Sadly, Harrington and the Board do not place academic reputation as a priority.
 
I think there's 700,000 lawyers in NY . No wonder we're seeing so many lawyer commercials on TV. 30 percent employed at Graduation ? how many undergrads are employed at graduation ? If I went to law school I'd major in accounting as an undergrad.
 
I was discussing law school ranking with a local attorney yesterday. What he explained is that schools are doing incredibly unscrupulous things to affect their US News ranking, including inflating employment opportunities in order to attract students. US News also includes the LSAT scores of incoming classes, so here is one immoral and enuthical thing St. John's and other schools have done:

SJU offers an inordinate number of full scholarships to applicants with high LSAT scores. The "only" stipulation is that you maintain an unweighted B average. Sounds simple enough, right? But nearly all law schools, including St. John's, grade on a curve. So after one year, a large number of students lose their scholarships, and are left to pay for the remaining years of law school on their own. It's okay, though. They served their purpose in boosting SJU's law school rankings and help attract the next class of freshmen.

Sounds pretty un-Catholic, unethical, and immoral. Kind of like offering honorarium PhD's and retracting them if the honoree doesn't donate before the awards ceremony (a Cecilia Chang idea that FH really liked).
 
I think there's 700,000 lawyers in NY . No wonder we're seeing so many lawyer commercials on TV. 30 percent employed at Graduation ? how many undergrads are employed at graduation ? If I went to law school I'd major in accounting as an undergrad.[/quot

Or enroll in a J.D. / M.B.A. program.
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Last year my Daughter was accepted at St.John's Law but chose to attend another school that is ranked 35+/- spots above and is approximately $8K less per year. Had my Daughter elected to attend St.J's I believe she would have received a good - solid legal education. I met St.John's Law Dean Michael Simons and found him to be a bright and capable leader.

I believe that US News rankings beyond the top 14 to 25 schools are a bit meaningless.

A full 40% of the US News ranking is calculated by the assessment (a/k/a the opinion) of administrators at other law schools (25%) and attorneys/ judges (15%). An additional 22.5% of the ranking is calculated by the quality of students enrolling at the law school (median LSAT score 12.5%/ median undergraduate 10%).

IMO the drop in St.John's US News rankings is in part related to the image of mediocrity which many attribute to a St.John's undergrad education. If St.John's undergrad was recognized to be a competitive. well run institution then the image and positive perception would spill over to its Law School. Likewise, the less less favorable image of St.J's shared by law school administrators, lawyers, judges, applicants and the parents of applicants weigh down the US News ranking of St.John's Law.

Dean Simons bio
http://www.stjohns.edu/academics/graduate/law/faculty/Profiles/SimonsMA
 
I think there's 700,000 lawyers in NY . No wonder we're seeing so many lawyer commercials on TV. 30 percent employed at Graduation ? how many undergrads are employed at graduation ? If I went to law school I'd major in accounting as an undergrad.
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Or enroll in a J.D. / M.B.A. program.
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Very true. My brother is a SJU law graduate from years ago in bankruptcy law. He went back for his MBA at SJU. Doing incredibly well. He was top of his class for under/law/mba but it still shows that an SJU education can still net you seven figures.
 
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