SJU in the News

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panther2 post=434077 said:
Knight post=434076 said:
Has anyone heard this story?  What’s up?

SJU PROFESSOR FIRED
https://nypost.com/2021/05/15/profe...for-reading-racial-slur-from-mark-twain-book/



 
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As a Black man and St Johns Alumnus, I disagree with this. In discussing slavery and RACISM, it is sometimes necessary to use terms that may make some feel uncomfortable. To fire a Professor for reading a term out of a book dilutes the educational process.

Thanks for your perspective. I agree with you. Ironically, the book in question is anti-slavery/segregation in theme.
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Knight post=434079 said:
panther2 post=434077 said:
Knight post=434076 said:
Has anyone heard this story?  What’s up?

SJU PROFESSOR FIRED
https://nypost.com/2021/05/15/profe...for-reading-racial-slur-from-mark-twain-book/




 
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As a Black man and St Johns Alumnus, I disagree with this. In discussing slavery and RACISM, it is sometimes necessary to use terms that may make some feel uncomfortable. To fire a Professor for reading a term out of a book dilutes the educational process.

Thanks for your perspective. I agree with you. Ironically, the book in question is anti-slavery/segregation in theme.
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Apparently that's not good enough. Seems to be a case of guilt by association or the appearance of impropriety.
 
Back in the 60's us old timers dealt with a book by Eric Berne called "Games People Play."  One of the so-called games was "Now I've got you you son of a bitch" in which all stored grievances were vented at targets of opportunity for a misbehavior, no matter how serious or trivial.  The problem was that if it was provable the person venting was activated and in effect in a "no recall" behavior mode.  Seems to be a lot of that going around now.
 
I’m not a fan of colleges having safe spaces where learning and discussion is handcuffed.
 
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The Administration's response was ridiculous, extreme, wrong, and sad.
My wife, a retired college professor, commented that the complainants should have to have this 'complaint' on their college transcripts.
 
Chicago Days post=434095 said:
The Administration's response was ridiculous, extreme, wrong, and sad.
My wife, a retired college professor, commented that the complainants should have to have this 'complaint' on their college transcripts.
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I fully agree that it would be ridiculous for a prof to be fired over the discussion of the novel. That comment from the university has a lot of subtext in it:

"When contacted by The Post, Brian Browne, a spokesman for St. John’s, said that “if your assertion is that she was fired for reading aloud from a Mark Twain novel, that is incorrect.” He refused to elaborate, saying the university does not comment on personnel matters."


There may be more to this story than the Post is reporting...
 
What I find most ironic is that Mark Twain, possibly the most famous and most beloved u.s. citizen of his day, certainly the most well known author, was perhaps the first person of his stature to advocate for civil rights, against slavery,  and for equality.    He used his voice and his pen in that regard.    He was the first prominent American author to write as people spoke, but at the same time write brilliantly.

All of this, especially Twain's character and advocacy have been lost by those who have railed against the use of the horrible N word.  It would be ridiculous to think that Twain would use contemporary sensibilities that simply did not exist in his time.

Kudos to this professor to respond to her students both privately and publicly in her classroom to create meaningful dialogue,which is what teaching is all about.

Regrettable that SJU cowers in fear of the mob turning on them by sacrificing a teacher with a 20 year track record with apparently no blemishes.  Shame on them.
 
This also shows what a crummy situation adjunct professors are in. They're basically freelancers who are paid peanuts ($3K a semester if they're lucky) and have little to no recourse from this type of dispute. 

My best profs were all adjuncts - people with real-world experience who were working professionals or recently retired. They taught because they enjoyed it. Many of the full-time faculty taught only because they were forced to. 
 
Absolutely ridiculous. 

The professor even allowed the students who felt uncomfortable to air their grievances and discuss it with her. 

what a mistake by the university 
 
As with many news stories these days, I think it is worth considering the source of the information. The only information we are getting is from the person fired. No students were quoted, and the university refused to comment, presumably for legal reasons. Obviously the person fired will tell the story they want known, and the FIRE organization mentioned is notorious for using the news to try to draw up controversy. 

FWIW, my understanding is that it is true the professor was not fired for just quoting Twain, but for comments she made in the HR meeting mentioned in the article. In the meeting she continued to use the word in question, and did not show the same remorse described in the article. 

I just think its worth remembering everyone has an agenda in situations like this, and to try to consider there may be more to the story than certain people let on. 
 
This is the second firing this year with similar circumstances.  University refusing quotes does not leave a good impression.
 
Knight post=434179 said:
This is the second firing this year with similar circumstances.  University refusing quotes does not leave a good impression.
 
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I agree with that, but like I said I'm sure they have some sort of legal reason to keep quiet. 

In both situations, I think that if they were more clear with their side of the story there would be a lot less controversy, and their actions would seem more justified. 

The loudest voice in the room is not always the correct one
 
I get teaching the literature and discussing it, but what was professor thinking in reciting the full word in question and not expecting someone to voice concern loudly?

 
 
I agree with that redstormnc.   I don't know what planet she is living on not to know even the word in quotations would offend some students.  

Still and all handled poorly and not judiciously by the university.
 
RedStormNC post=434187 said:
I get teaching the literature and discussing it, but what was professor thinking in reciting the full word in question and not expecting someone to voice concern loudly?


 
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Unfortunately, it appears the students were unable to see beyond the word. Once they heard the word, they were to narrow minded to look at the context in which it is used. It is one thing to call someone the "n word", but totally different when quoting from a novel written over a hundred years ago.

College is supposed to be a time when students learn to think, knee jerk reactions to words that may be upsetting, does not allow them to ascertain the entirety of what is being said and why. This shame of it is that this was an "anti slavery" novel that Mark Twain wrote.
 
Panther2 wrote: 

Unfortunately, it appears the students were unable to see beyond the word. Once they heard the word, they were to narrow minded to look at the context in which it is used. It is one thing to call someone the "n word", but totally different when quoting from a novel written over a hundred years ago.

College is supposed to be a time when students learn to think, knee jerk reactions to words that may be upsetting, does not allow them to ascertain the entirety of what is being said and why. This shame of it is that this was an "anti slavery" novel that Mark Twain wrote.

Totally agree with Panther here. Now that I'm retired with so much free time I am reading a great deal and don't get the horror at use of the "n" word 150 years ago when it is used often in lots of highly thought of novels today and no one says boo. We are in the middle of watching the excellent Amazon series Underground Railroad based on the novel by Colson Whitehead and needless to say we've heard the word used once or twice in ways that are quite realistic to the times and horrors being portrayed.
On the other hand, take Double J's point that there may be more to the story as to why professor was let go that we are not hearing. Always difficult to judge without having all the facts.  
 
You have got to allow the free discussion of ideas, especially in college.  If you can’t learn about the shortcomings of your past, you can’t learn the proper way to react and live in the present.
College is not meant to be a safe place where you go to avoid uncomfortable discussions.  Listen, study, discuss and learn.  Challenge your mind.
 
There is an excellent and highly recommended documentary on Mark Twain that was produced by Ken Burns and PBS.   Twain was incredibly successful as an author and speaker, but was a horrible businessman who fell deeply into debt after heavily investing in an unproven automated typesetting machine designed to revolutionize the printing industry.   After years of development it was a total failure, and now in his 60s, Twain had to go on a world speaking tour to pay back his debts.    He was already in his 60s, and the wear and tear on him was considerable.   While away, his beloved daughter took ill and died.   

The point of this is, as a great American who took a stand against the results of slavery, for civil rights, and for equality, he ran the risk of alienating millions of his readers at a time when he dearly needed money to climb out of debt.   His book Puddinhead WIlson was not profitable, nor was it intended to be.    

What a great lesson in humanity students could have learned had they focused on the man and not one word.   Some of the students who lodged the protest may feel satisfied at the judgment rendered by St. John's to terminate this professor.   Sadly, this was a teachable moment that regrettably instead ended with the piano player being shot.
 
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