SJU avg SAT Score increase 110 pts?

[RedStormNC]

Saw that incoming class SAT score was 1200

http://www.stjohns.edu/about/news/2017-04-29/accepted-student-day-draws-record-number-visitors

The year before it was 1081.

http://www.stjohns.edu/admission-aid/undergraduate-admission/faqs

That's a huge increase. Did the College Board SAT baseline get reset or did SJU really get that much more selective in one year ?

 

[Sjugrad13]

Saw that incoming class SAT score was 1200

http://www.stjohns.edu/about/news/2017-04-29/accepted-student-day-draws-record-number-visitors

The year before it was 1081.

http://www.stjohns.edu/admission-aid/undergraduate-admission/faqs

That's a huge increase. Did the College Board SAT baseline get reset or did SJU really get that much more selective in one year ?

SJU has been doing this for a while now, The last two years SJU has increased its entry GPA and Sat score. ( sidenote SJU acceptance rate is 49 percent this year). They've also recruited more aggressively from Catholic high schools as well.

I believe the incoming class average is an A average.

 

[redmannorth]

Saw that incoming class SAT score was 1200

http://www.stjohns.edu/about/news/2017-04-29/accepted-student-day-draws-record-number-visitors

The year before it was 1081.

http://www.stjohns.edu/admission-aid/undergraduate-admission/faqs

That's a huge increase. Did the College Board SAT baseline get reset or did SJU really get that much more selective in one year ?

SJU has been doing this for a while now, The last two years SJU has increased its entry GPA and Sat score. ( sidenote SJU acceptance rate is 49 percent this year). They've also recruited more aggressively from Catholic high schools as well.

I believe the incoming class average is an A average.

Wonderful that many of us are delighted to hear.
Kudos to Bobby for raising the academic profile of the school.

 

[beast of the east]

I would be careful before proclaiming this an improvement. This is the average score of accepted student's, not the average score of the incoming class. Sju has been encoraging top students to apply here by waiving application fee and essay and using the common app, and promising.lots of scholarship money available. One of the goals is that even if most dont come here it ups the stat referenced here

 

[Andrew]

The scores on the new SAT are much higher. A 1200 is not the same as a 1200 back in the day. I would not be surprised if most schools went schools went up at least 5 percent. A ten percent increase that St. John's received is good but would expect the students that are attending to have a smaller increase as Beast said.

 

[beast of the east]

The scores on the new SAT are much higher. A 1200 is not the same as a 1200 back in the day. I would not be surprised if most schools went schools went up at least 5 percent. A ten percent increase that St. John's received is good but would expect the students that are attending to have a smaller increase as Beast said.

I've said this before but my son, who was in a HS honors program and had both a high SAT and ACT was contacted by SJU as I described. Emphasis, they reached out to him out of the blue. They tried to make it as easy as possible. Submit your common app, no essay required, no application fee, lots of scholarship money available, and they will let you know almost immediately if you are accepted. My belief is that they legitimately do as promised but one big reason they acquire contact information of top students is to boost the stat they are now beating their chests about.

 

[Sjugrad13]

The scores on the new SAT are much higher. A 1200 is not the same as a 1200 back in the day. I would not be surprised if most schools went schools went up at least 5 percent. A ten percent increase that St. John's received is good but would expect the students that are attending to have a smaller increase as Beast said.

They went back to the old SAT three years ago my man. It's been up to 1600 since 2014.

And that incoming class was for students who are already here, so it won't be lower.

Finally, I should've stated this earlier, but Wake Forest 8 years ago did a policy known as "non -testing policy"
http://news.wfu.edu/test-optional-admissions/

What happened is applications increased to wake forest by 27 percent the following year, and wake forest SAT and GPA standards went up ( more applicants, stronger students) . Currently, 850 colleges and universities do this. SJU just implemented the policy last year hence the increase.

Finally, the 1080 to 1200 was a two year increase. It went from 1080- to 1150, then 1150 to 1200.

 

[beast of the east]

The scores on the new SAT are much higher. A 1200 is not the same as a 1200 back in the day. I would not be surprised if most schools went schools went up at least 5 percent. A ten percent increase that St. John's received is good but would expect the students that are attending to have a smaller increase as Beast said.

They went back to the old SAT three years ago my man. It's been up to 1600 since 2014.

And that incoming class was for students who are already here, so it won't be lower.

Finally, I should've stated this earlier, but Wake Forest 8 years ago did a policy known as "non -testing policy"
http://news.wfu.edu/test-optional-admissions/

What happened is applications increased to wake forest by 27 percent the following year, and wake forest SAT and GPA standards went up ( more applicants, stronger students) . Currently, 850 colleges and universities do this. SJU just implemented the policy last year hence the increase.

Finally, the 1080 to 1200 was a two year increase. It went from 1080- to 1150, then 1150 to 1200.

The average SAT for accepted students is radically different than the average SAT of the incoming freshman class.
The article references the average SAT of accepted students. SJU knows that high flying students accepted will likely go elsewhere so they use their applications to pad their stats and make SJU appear more competitive than it is.

 

[Class of 72]

The scores on the new SAT are much higher. A 1200 is not the same as a 1200 back in the day. I would not be surprised if most schools went schools went up at least 5 percent. A ten percent increase that St. John's received is good but would expect the students that are attending to have a smaller increase as Beast said.

They went back to the old SAT three years ago my man. It's been up to 1600 since 2014.

And that incoming class was for students who are already here, so it won't be lower.

Finally, I should've stated this earlier, but Wake Forest 8 years ago did a policy known as "non -testing policy"
http://news.wfu.edu/test-optional-admissions/

What happened is applications increased to wake forest by 27 percent the following year, and wake forest SAT and GPA standards went up ( more applicants, stronger students) . Currently, 850 colleges and universities do this. SJU just implemented the policy last year hence the increase.

Finally, the 1080 to 1200 was a two year increase. It went from 1080- to 1150, then 1150 to 1200.

The average SAT for accepted students is radically different than the average SAT of the incoming freshman class.
The article references the average SAT of accepted students. SJU knows that high flying students accepted will likely go elsewhere so they use their applications to pad their stats and make SJU appear more competitive than it is.

You are correct Beast. The average SAT score of students that registered in the Fall of 2015 was 1081 and close to 1100 in 2016.
There were obviously hundreds of students with scores over 1250 and while not Ivy League material these are some very smart kids with the majority a having B+ average. Of course the scores also reflect the traditional socio-economic status of admitted students versus those that choose to attend a Fordham or Villanova. Most of our students don't come from $40,000 per year prep schools, wealthy families, parents with advanced college degrees. As much as we would like to change the perception of SJ, it's students still reflect where most of us came from 50 years ago. That perception changes even slower when alums willingly send their bright kid's to other schools and leave alma mater without positive legacies but the need to encourage new students with no historical ties to St. John's.
Many grads are not part of the solution - they are part of the problem.

 

[Andrew]

The scores on the new SAT are much higher. A 1200 is not the same as a 1200 back in the day. I would not be surprised if most schools went schools went up at least 5 percent. A ten percent increase that St. John's received is good but would expect the students that are attending to have a smaller increase as Beast said.

They went back to the old SAT three years ago my man. It's been up to 1600 since 2014.

And that incoming class was for students who are already here, so it won't be lower.

Finally, I should've stated this earlier, but Wake Forest 8 years ago did a policy known as "non -testing policy"
http://news.wfu.edu/test-optional-admissions/

What happened is applications increased to wake forest by 27 percent the following year, and wake forest SAT and GPA standards went up ( more applicants, stronger students) . Currently, 850 colleges and universities do this. SJU just implemented the policy last year hence the increase.

Finally, the 1080 to 1200 was a two year increase. It went from 1080- to 1150, then 1150 to 1200.

Many students took the ACT during the change. SAT scores have been intentionally inflated by colleges to justify cost.

 

[Andrew]

The scores on the new SAT are much higher. A 1200 is not the same as a 1200 back in the day. I would not be surprised if most schools went schools went up at least 5 percent. A ten percent increase that St. John's received is good but would expect the students that are attending to have a smaller increase as Beast said.

They went back to the old SAT three years ago my man. It's been up to 1600 since 2014.

And that incoming class was for students who are already here, so it won't be lower.

Finally, I should've stated this earlier, but Wake Forest 8 years ago did a policy known as "non -testing policy"
http://news.wfu.edu/test-optional-admissions/

What happened is applications increased to wake forest by 27 percent the following year, and wake forest SAT and GPA standards went up ( more applicants, stronger students) . Currently, 850 colleges and universities do this. SJU just implemented the policy last year hence the increase.

Finally, the 1080 to 1200 was a two year increase. It went from 1080- to 1150, then 1150 to 1200.

The average SAT for accepted students is radically different than the average SAT of the incoming freshman class.
The article references the average SAT of accepted students. SJU knows that high flying students accepted will likely go elsewhere so they use their applications to pad their stats and make SJU appear more competitive than it is.

You are correct Beast. The average SAT score of students that registered in the Fall of 2015 was 1081 and close to 1100 in 2016.
There were obviously hundreds of students with scores over 1250 and while not Ivy League material these are some very smart kids with the majority a having B+ average. Of course the scores also reflect the traditional socio-economic status of admitted students versus those that choose to attend a Fordham or Villanova. Most of our students don't come from $40,000 per year prep schools, wealthy families, parents with advanced college degrees. As much as we would like to change the perception of SJ, it's students still reflect where most of us came from 50 years ago. That perception changes even slower when alums willingly send their bright kid's to other schools and leave alma mater without positive legacies but the need to encourage new students with no historical ties to St. John's.
Many grads are not part of the solution - they are part of the problem.

An 1100 average SAT score would be close to 50th percentile.

 

[Andrew]

The scores on the new SAT are much higher. A 1200 is not the same as a 1200 back in the day. I would not be surprised if most schools went schools went up at least 5 percent. A ten percent increase that St. John's received is good but would expect the students that are attending to have a smaller increase as Beast said.

They went back to the old SAT three years ago my man. It's been up to 1600 since 2014.

And that incoming class was for students who are already here, so it won't be lower.

Finally, I should've stated this earlier, but Wake Forest 8 years ago did a policy known as "non -testing policy"


What happened is applications increased to wake forest by 27 percent the following year, and wake forest SAT and GPA standards went up ( more applicants, stronger students) . Currently, 850 colleges and universities do this. SJU just implemented the policy last year hence the increase.

Finally, the 1080 to 1200 was a two year increase. It went from 1080- to 1150, then 1150 to 1200.

Many students took the ACT during the change. SAT scores have been intentionally inflated by colleges to justify cost.

=.52bc92ed926d

Read this article as well

 

[beast of the east]

According to U.S. News, nearly 30% of those entering in 2015 SJU had critical reading scores below 499 and about 27% of those entering SJU had Math scores below 499.

Related, 20% of students entering SJU do so without an SAT or ACT (no longer required). Presumably those students are in the bottom group. '

If you recall, once subsidized student loans went away, SJU had a dropoff in their freshman class of 500 students. Even at $30K per year per student that's a $15 million shortfall. How do you make it up? By lowering the bar at the bottom end.

 

[RedStormNC]

Good discussion here.

Thanks for pointing out the 1,200 was "accepted", not enrolled. Not sure if this accepted # won't help the US News ranking as that may be on enrolled, not accepted. Not sure off memory.

Also, for pointing our the SAT structure change. I knew it went back to 1600, but didn't realize they reset the baseline at same time. They actually did this maybe 10-15 years ago too when they found the avg was no longer 1000 which was the original average, and that happened as lower income students with typically lower grades began to take test.

My daughter is rising 9th grader...We live in NC now(moved 4 years ago for job relocation), but currently she follows SJU basketball because i do.....and if asked she probably would say it's one of the colleges she'd like to attend mainly because it's in NY, likes her NY roots, rhe team, and she doesn't want to stay in NC for college (as much as a 9th grader knows at this point).

While an alum, I still struggle with her possible future interest to attend SJU vs many other likely options, mainly her being a strong academic student, SJU still commuter filled( even with the dorms helping and making look nice) and she knows not to pick a school because of a team (especially a program like ours)

Luckily, she's got four years and teenagers minds will change a million times.

 

[Class of 72]

According to U.S. News, nearly 30% of those entering in 2015 SJU had critical reading scores below 499 and about 27% of those entering SJU had Math scores below 499.

Related, 20% of students entering SJU do so without an SAT or ACT (no longer required). Presumably those students are in the bottom group. '

If you recall, once subsidized student loans went away, SJU had a dropoff in their freshman class of 500 students. Even at $30K per year per student that's a $15 million shortfall. How do you make it up? By lowering the bar at the bottom end.

Beast, with all due respect, we all know about the bottom quarter of our students dragging our academic profile down. Best of luck to these kids trying to get somewhere. Best of luck to the 70% that scored above 1000. As for the $15 million shortfall, $500,000 is due to a one man fck up. Everything is relative to the point one wants to focus on. If we had a top 20 basketball program, were filling the Garden as Louisville fills their arena, sold more SJ merchandise as a result and were not paying ex-coaches settlement $ in various sports, most here could live with our academic ranking just as the city of Louisville seems to live with the ACC's lowest academically ranked school.