SI Off-season Winners & Losers Piece

paultzman

paultzman

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St. John’s​

After a 2021 offseason marked by roster turnover, St. John’s didn’t have a single scholarship player transfer out in ‘22 and made two splashy additions to its roster in Andre Curbelo (Illinois) and David Jones (DePaul). As uneven as Curbelo’s sophomore season was at Illinois, he’s a good buy-low addition with major upside thanks to his ability to play in ball screens, and Mike Anderson’s offense gives considerable freedom to its guards to make plays. Meanwhile, Jones at times played like one of the best players in the Big East in his first full season at DePaul, and should provide versatility and scoring prowess for the Red Storm. This roster doesn’t fit together perfectly given the shooting woes of both Curbelo and returning point guard Posh Alexander, but it’s hard to argue the Johnnies did well this spring.

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Winners and Losers of the Men’s College Basketball Offseason

Which college hoops teams made out best and worst this offseason? SI’s winners and losers
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It's always nice to be mentioned on the "winners" side of things.
I really like the blend of freshmen and transfer portal newcomers
Also great to see that our roster retention was far better than the previous year
Van and Shoes have done an outstanding job as our primary recruiters
This team should be fun to watch next season and has the potential to make the Big Dance
 
paultzman said:

St. John’s​

After a 2021 offseason marked by roster turnover, St. John’s didn’t have a single scholarship player transfer out in ‘22 and made two splashy additions to its roster in Andre Curbelo (Illinois) and David Jones (DePaul). As uneven as Curbelo’s sophomore season was at Illinois, he’s a good buy-low addition with major upside thanks to his ability to play in ball screens, and Mike Anderson’s offense gives considerable freedom to its guards to make plays. Meanwhile, Jones at times played like one of the best players in the Big East in his first full season at DePaul, and should provide versatility and scoring prowess for the Red Storm. This roster doesn’t fit together perfectly given the shooting woes of both Curbelo and returning point guard Posh Alexander, but it’s hard to argue the Johnnies did well this spring.

www.si.com

Winners and Losers of the Men’s College Basketball Offseason

Which college hoops teams made out best and worst this offseason? SI’s winners and losers
www.si.com www.si.com
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Did the writer mean but it’s hard to argue the Johnnies did well this spring. Or
but it’s hard to argue the Johnnies didn’t do well this spring.
 
I agree that David Jones will be a major contributor for us this year, but I would have preferred if he had transferred from a school that wasn't a fellow Big East school. It never happened prior to this year.
 
Las Vegan said:
I agree that David Jones will be a major contributor for us this year, but I would have preferred if he had transferred from a school that wasn't a fellow Big East school. It never happened prior to this year.
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Get used to it as long as the current circumstances continue. Akok from yukon to gtown.
 
If we took a local mid-major's best player I might feel slightly bad for a few minutes, but I'd get over it. Taking a good player from a fellow Big East school doesn't make me feel bad at all. If we didn't keep up with the times, we'd be an honorable last place team ever year.
 
Las Vegan said:
I agree that David Jones will be a major contributor for us this year, but I would have preferred if he had transferred from a school that wasn't a fellow Big East school. It never happened prior to this year.
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While it has been over 30 years, Ray Knight (not the former Reds and Mets third basemen) transferred from Georgetown to Providence.
 
SJU85 said:
While it has been over 30 years, Ray Knight (not the former Reds and Mets third basemen) transferred from Georgetown to Providence.
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Yes, I remember Ray Knight going to Providence, but I recall that being John Thompson doing a favor to his alma mater. The Friars were really bad at the end of Joe Mullaney's second tour of duty at Providence. If Knight was actually initially enrolled at G'town, he would have had to sit out two years.
I hope that those of you who have no problem with poaching players within the Big East are as understanding when it happens to us. My guess would be Uconn taking one of ours. The difference, to me, between Owens leaving for Tex Tech or Figueroa bolting, late, for Oregon is that I understand you have to grab the best players possible, but the other Big East schools are our partners, as well as rivals.
 
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I have no problem getting Jones. It is within the rules. But, you r right we r ultimately going to loose a player to another BE school. But a lost player hurts whether he goes to Oregon or Providence.
 
Las Vegan said:
Yes, I remember Ray Knight going to Providence, but I recall that being John Thompson doing a favor to his alma mater. The Friars were really bad at the end of Joe Mullaney's second tour of duty at Providence. If Knight was actually initially enrolled at G'town, he would have had to sit out two years.
I hope that those of you who have no problem with poaching players within the Big East are as understanding when it happens to us. My guess would be Uconn taking one of ours. The difference, to me, between Owens leaving for Tex Tech or Figueroa bolting, late, for Oregon is that I understand you have to grab the best players possible, but the other Big East schools are our partners, as well as rivals.
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Not only did Knight enroll at Georgetow, he actually played for them (80 - 81 season) before transferring to Providence, sitting out a year which was of course required by NCAA rules and playing his last three years there. At that time the Big East did not have rule in place that required you to sit out two years if you transferred within the conference to play the same sport which eventually was changed to a total prohibition against it. Those rules came several years later and their were other such transfers in other BE sports before it did Including one women player from North Babylon whose name escapes me who had enrolled at UConn and showed up for classes and then withdrew and transferred here.

As for “poaching“ players from other BE teams and how would I feel if it happens to us, quite frankly I am surprised it didn’t happen to us first with the way things happen to us. I never like it when a good player leaves us by transfer and stying within the conference would make it sting more, but in this new era of “free agency”, it would be irresponsible and not doing due diligence for a program not to at least look at player who entered the portal and can help your program just because he played in your conference when there is no rule against it.

If Posh had entered the portal, do you think no team from the Big East would have gone after him? The rules are different and you either adapt or figure something else out if you are going to survive.

As far as the other BE schools being our partners, well BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WVa., Miami and Louisville were too, until they weren’t.
 
I understand the point you are all making, but I would hate to see the Big East become like some of the power conferences where they relentlessly screw each other during the recruiting process, right up to the LOI signing and the coaches feud and dime each other out to the NCAA. It's nice to be able to root for all the other conference members (except Uconn) and have coaches who appear to respect each other; but with the cutthroat tactics going on now, that kind of honorable, supportive conference interplay may be gone with the wind.
 
Las Vegan said:
I understand the point you are all making, but I would hate to see the Big East become like some of the power conferences where they relentlessly screw each other during the recruiting process, right up to the LOI signing and the coaches feud and dime each other out to the NCAA. It's nice to be able to root for all the other conference members (except Uconn) and have coaches who appear to respect each other; but with the cutthroat tactics going on now, that kind of honorable, supportive conference interplay may be gone with the wind.
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BE coaches have been feuding over recruiting since Doug West (Nova and Pitt) and Bobby Martin (Pitt, St. John’s). In recent times you have the guard from Brooklyn who changed his mind during the season from Providence and went to Nova whose name escapes me (he was in the same glass and Doug Wiggins who did the same to us for UConn like two days before the early signing period).
 
SJU85 said:
BE coaches have been feuding over recruiting since Doug West (Nova and Pitt) and Bobby Martin (Pitt, St. John’s). In recent times you have the guard from Brooklyn who changed his mind during the season from Providence and went to Nova whose name escapes me (he was in the same glass and Doug Wiggins who did the same to us for UConn like two days before the early signing period).
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You are going back 40 years for your examples, and that Big East included football schools. My point is prior to this year, in the current version of the Big East; the conference has been successful and has avoided the type of scandals that are common in the SEC, Big 12, etc.
The problem at STJ is not that we were too ethical. The school was poorly lead and terrible choices were made at the coaching level. Those problems seem to have been remedied. I think St. John's and the conference can be successful without employing the sleazy stuff that does exist elsewhere. There are many more conference changes coming and the TV $ disparity will only worsen how we see college sports.
 
Las Vegan said:
You are going back 40 years for your examples, and that Big East included football schools. My point is prior to this year, in the current version of the Big East; the conference has been successful and has avoided the type of scandals that are common in the SEC, Big 12, etc.
The problem at STJ is not that we were too ethical. The school was poorly lead and terrible choices were made at the coaching level. Those problems seem to have been remedied. I think St. John's and the conference can be successful without employing the sleazy stuff that does exist elsewhere. There are many more conference changes coming and the TV $ disparity will only worsen how we see college sports.
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The SEC and Big 12 lifted their rules against interconference transfers transfers within the same time period the Big East did so not sure what scandals involving such transfers there are/were.

When you are recruiting in the same pool with conference mates, you know there are going to be hard feelings. (Ponds, STJ and Providence, Harkless, STJ and UConn, Riley, St. John's Gtown for more recent examples and there were some "hard" feelings in at least two of those cases). It doesn't mean there was anything sleazy going on (unlike two of the ones I mentioned earlier). I get it, you don't like it but this is how it is now.

Terrible choices were made at many levels not just coaching for many years and agree they seem to have been remedied.
 
The portal changed everything since a kid makes the first move and then is essentially a free agent. I don't think it is typical that it is a situation of tampering. Once the kid goes in, he's fair game. I think in the vast (if not mostly all) of the cases, it is a true free agency situation, and in some small percentage of times the landing spot will happen to be in conference, not pre-engineered results. Maybe I'm naive.
 
SJU85 said:
The SEC and Big 12 lifted their rules against interconference transfers transfers within the same time period the Big East did so not sure what scandals involving such transfers there are/were.

When you are recruiting in the same pool with conference mates, you know there are going to be hard feelings. (Ponds, STJ and Providence, Harkless, STJ and UConn, Riley, St. John's Gtown for more recent examples and there were some "hard" feelings in at least two of those cases). It doesn't mean there was anything sleazy going on (unlike two of the ones I mentioned earlier). I get it, you don't like it but this is how it is now.

Terrible choices were made at many levels not just coaching for many years and agree they seem to have been remedied.
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I guess I started this by saying it was unfortunate that we went after a player from DePaul. There were alternatives. I didn't know it would trigger anyone. Jones had considered entering the NBA draft, decided to forego that and return to DePaul. They were thrilled to have their best player return and would build around him. Two weeks later, he committing to STJ. The leaders of the current Big East made the decision to follow other conferences and allow players to transfer within conference, without penalty. I believe the long-term consequences will hurt the Big East.
When I referred to the unethical recruiting that goes on in the SEC and the Big 12, it was not specific to the in-conference rule change. The history of overt cheating is often brought up by the schools, themselves. When we lost out on Riley, there were no accusations of cheating. Competing for recruits is not cheating. There is no ethical comparison with schools like LSU, Baylor, Tex A &M, Louisville, etc. to the current Big East schools.
I think we have exhausted this topic, but it reminded me of the debate a few years ago re Rick Pitino. The posters here seemed to be about equally divided on whether to hire him. I was 50-50 on the matter, but ultimately it comes down to, while it was certainly legal to hire him, was it the ethical thing for St.John's to do, and that is a very subjective matter.










i think that d
 
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