SAT Scores Catholic Colleges
- Thread starter jerseyshorejohnny
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jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegerankings/tp/top-catholic-colleges.htm
Did not see schools like DePaul, San Francisco, San Diego, St. John Fischer, Mt. Saint Mary's, Iona, Marist , Manhattan or Regis U (Denver) on the list either.
Did not see schools like DePaul, San Francisco, San Diego, St. John Fischer, Mt. Saint Mary's, Iona, Marist , Manhattan or Regis U (Denver) on the list either.
I can answer for my alma mater. Marist likely wasn't listed because the pope "undeclared" its catholic status even though they still technically affiliate as catholic. They invited Elliot Spitzer for commencement and knowing he was pro-choice, the pope was disgusted and took away the catholic affiliation. Sounds crazy, but true lol.
jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
Obama spoke at ND's commencement, he's pro-choice, and it's still a Catholic university.
jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
Getting back to the topic at hand, retention rates (currently under 80%) and 6 yr. graduation rate numbers penalize St. John's in these types of rankings and rankings such as U.S. News.
It will be problematic to realize an advance without a meaningful improvement in these stats, at the very least.
It will be problematic to realize an advance without a meaningful improvement in these stats, at the very least.
The Gumbinator
Member
Cool to hear you're a Marist alum Joe, I am too, class of '11. I'm fairly certain that in Marist's case, their non-official Catholic status is a matter of federal funding and schools with an official religious affiliation receiving less money. Not sure, but I think so.
beast of the east
Active member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marist_College
Marist's independence was emphasized in 2003, when Marist invited New York State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer to deliver the commencement address for the graduating class, incurring protests aimed at the college for Spitzer's public support of abortion rights. In response to complaints, Cardinal Archbishop of New York Edward Egan stated that Marist "is no longer a Catholic institution" and therefore not under the Church's jurisdiction.[24] Although Marist had become independent in 1969 and "does not identify itself as a Catholic college in any way",[24] under Pope John Paul II's decree Ex Corde Ecclesiae, all colleges that claimed to be Catholic prior to 1991 are considered Catholic until declared otherwise by a bishop.
As JSJ noted, other Catholic universities have invited speakers whose public policy is in strong contradiction to church teaching. Cardinal Egan, and NOT Pope John Paul II, was within his rights to terminate their affiliation with the church. Of course, his successor, Cardinal Dolan, invited President Obama to the Al smith dinner, despite the President's abhorrent support of partial birth abortion.
. By the way, the funny thing is that since Marist was declared non-catholic, the school flew up the rankings and accepts about 29% of its applicants. At the time in 03 I don't think it was very competitive. JSJ
The College Board reports that only 58% of St. John's students graduate within 6 years. Unfortunately the percent is not anywhere near the 80% noted in your above post.
St. John's business model which Harrington follows inflicts long term pain to the 42% of St. John's students who attend St.John's but for whatever reason never graduate finding themselves tens of thousands of dollars in debt. [query: because the average debt of a St. John's grad is $35,451, what is the average debt of a student that quits St.John's after 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or during their 6th year of study at St. John's?)
You are correct that St. John's attrition rate hurts its US News ranking but it is misleading to imply that St.John's poor academic retention is alone the reason for its sorry rankings.
Even if attrition were improved then St.John's US News ranking is hurt by its poor academic ranking (comprising 22.5% of the calculated ranking), low admissions stats (comprising 15% of calculated ranking), poor faculty resources (comprising 20% of the calculated ranking), poor alum giving rate (comprising 5% of the calculated ranking) and other like factors upon which St. John's does not distinguish itself.
Given St.John's location just miles from the financial capital of the world, the success its alums have enjoyed, the availability of meaningful internships and job opportunities for its students there is absolutely no reason why St.John's has not earned a higher academic profile.
Perhaps if Harrington and his assistants raise the academic profile of St.John's and instituted basic institutional accountability (see Dean Chang) then St. John's alums would have greater pride in their undergrad school and increase alum contributions.
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In a prior thread I invited everyone to identify just one ranking that identifies St.John's undergrad education favorably but no one has accepted my invitation.
jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
Hello Otis,
Trust all is well !!
As an FYI, I stated that RETENTION was under 80%. I did not give a number for the 6 yr grad rate.
Didn't think I was implying that retention is alone the reason for the our rank.
Be that as it may, but one thing is for sure, if the university had more grant money to provide, our retention and 6 yr. gard rate would arguably rise to some degree.
It wouldn't solve all issues but it would be a good start.
That is where annual contributions and capital campaigns come into play.
Not using this as an excuse because the numbers are what the numbers are but our relatively large enrollment also works against us.
I wonder what our ranking would be if we enrolled 20% fewer students. Realize it's a moot point, but as they say, it's fun to think about!
I think I have mentioned this before but I would like the university to make a serious attempt to raise the profile of our professionally successful alumni to our students, prospective students, their parents and high school guidance counselors.
If I had a magic wand I would build a Visitor's Center that would contain an Alumni Hall of Fame as well as inter active exhibits that would highlight some of the aforementioned alumni who would share their St. John's experience and how earning a St. John's degree was instrumental in making them the person they became.
"Everyone" knows our star athletes, particulary those who were basketball stars, but fewer know those who were very successful in many other professional walks of life.
There is no reason to keep these grads in the "witness protection program" !
We, as a university, have a good, perhaps very good, story to tell and need to do a much, much better job of communicating it.
It would be a pretty neat thing if we had a place where visitors to the university could see how many successful people earned degrees from St. John's.
A parent who is going to "shell out" a good amount of $$$ for his/her kid's education could have a little more confidence that the money is going to a university with a long term track record of producing success.
Needless to say, it would be a pretty damn good resaon to seriously consider St. John's and it would help, in some way, to change the academic reputation and its long term benefits, among some (i.e. guidance counselors).
It would also be a "feel good" for all alumni and give everyone something to brag about and that's a good thing, IMO.
Perhaps if high school students were familar with the professional achievements of many of our alumni they would, at least, consider attending the university.
I may be tilting at windmills , but it would be a good thing if some, many, most of these alumni would agree to help recruit those "above average" high school students that would boost the academic perception of our student body.
If we has more money for scholarships and grants, we could tempt the proverbial "above average" student to attend St. John's with the obvious result of improving our academic profile.
Like many things in life, without money, all else fails.
Always enjoy the give and take!
beast of the east
Active member
If I had to guess, if the university reported only non pell students, that the ranking would be significantly higher. While I don't think it would put us among the academically elite Catholic schools, I am pretty certain we'd make the list. To some extent, eiether by charitable mission or because it's profitable, having a student body that is 40% Pell eligible has an adverse effect on the university academic standing and nothing short of being more selective across the board will correct that.