Pell Grant Eligible Students at St. John's

For those not aware, nearly half of the undergrads at St. John's are Pell Grant eligible.

This is in keeping with the Vincentian mission, as you know.

The top 25 U.S.News ranked schools in the country, don't even come close, with the exception of a few.

Thought this chart was interesting:

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandr...s/economic-diversity-among-top-ranked-schools 
Click to expand...
 

Not to be skeptical, but many of the schools on that list are very well endowed and can be much more selective about the type of poor student they admit - many with advanced academic credentials and eligible for scholarships. One of the Vincentian principals is charity to the poor, but another is making a profit while running a university. I can't help but think that with 40% of our students Pell eligible we are offering a 13th grade education and accepting enormous numbers of Pell eligibles students because they bring government supplied revenue to the University.
 
http://news.investors.com/article/602840/201203011830/blame-government-tuition-medical-inflation.htm 
Click to expand...
 

"Massive subsidies create artificial demand for college. That further distorts prices. Thanks to last year's Pell program alone, 10 million low-income students enrolled in college.


And Pell Grants just get more generous. The maximum award ballooned from $452 in 1974 to $5,550 in 2011. Meanwhile, real tuition and fees have tripled.

The administration plans to fuel the bubble with even more subsidies, which will only wind up pushing college out of the reach of more students."


Excellent article, providing some legitimacy to my point. Add some very generous donors motivated by tax deductions. feeling good about providing a college education for underprivileged students, and positions of prestige and power (board of governors, board of directors)

Combine this with Pell grants and you have a created fuel for additional revenue for the university.

I would like to see statistics for graduation rates for the Pelle eligible students SJU accepts as compared to any of the schools on the list you referenced. I would virtually assure you that our graduation rates pale in comparison to the schools cited.
 
Even when those who come from the lower strata bring academic baggage along with their government subsidies the experience at St. John's still provides them with an opportunity to find and re-define themselves thus helping to fulfill the Vincentian mission.
 
Another very good find. Let's assume SJU is University B, "Urban Nitty Gritty". If those 40% of the SJU students body receiving Pell grants are graduating at a 40% clip, the following thoughts are elicited:

1) I wonder what percentage of pharmacy and allied health students (the university's most qualified group overall) are Pell eligible.

2) Presuming that the number above is disproportionately lower, the number of Pell eligible students at the other University colleges may exceed 50%.

3) If Pell students graduate at a much lower rate, are there pressures to lower the academic bar, and has the academic bar already been lowered to get a higher number of students to graduation?

4) What is the result on the quliaty of education of non Pell students?

5) Has St. John's deliberately cast itself as a lower tier school by accepting such a large number of Pell eligible students? 
 
Interesting article about Pell grant students and graduation rates at Purdue and other Indiana public universities.

http://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/academics/2012/120228TippetsPellgrad.html 
Click to expand...
 

Interesting article. Purdue achieves a 64% graduation rate as compared to a 40% rate at other Indiana universities by creating an infrastructure to assist these students. The article would have greater validity though, if they comapred SAT or ACT scores for Pell students at Purdue compared to other Indiana Universities.
 
A Profile of SUCCESSFUL Pell Grant Recipients

U.S. Dept. of Education 2009


http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009156.pdf


Worth reading if you are an Education Major or stuck on a train for an hour (LOL). All kidding aside, worth taking a look at if this is of interest to you. Obviously, Pell Grant recipients are very important to St. John's.
 
A wonderful discussion by JSJ and the Beast.

Correct me if I'm wrong(Beast I know you used to work at SJU)

One of the reasons tuition was so low during the Fr. Cahill era compared to other private schools was that he refused to take on Bundy Aid that was offered in the 1970's-1980's. By not being tied into the federal government at the time, SJU was able to have a much more affordable tuition.

I wonder what would happen if the school adopted that policy today, would they go bankrupt?

  
 
Source : U.S. News

College with the highest % of Pell Grant Students:

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandr...ings/national-universities/economic-diversity


According to the aforementioned, at St. John's, Pell Grant students represent 35% of the student body, which is the same as such schools as Temple, SUNY Albany, and Stony Brook.

I've been told that our % is close to half of the student body. That said, not certain which percentage to believe. 
 
Thanks for the nice comments about this discussions. I enjoy these topics with JSJ, who brings a great tone to any discussion.

I did work at SJU. I am not sure about Bundy Aid. I was a new grad at the time, and had a job responsbility tht was funded in part by capitation grants.

Some of the provisions of the Bundy Aid Act:

2. Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, in order to qualify for state aid apportionments pursuant to this section, any institution of higher education must meet either the requirements set forth in subparagraphs
(i) through (v) of this paragraph or, in the alternative, the requirements set forth in paragraph (b) of this subdivision:

(a)
(ii) The institution must be a non-profit college or university incorporated by the regents or by the legislature, or a school of medicine, dentistry or osteopathy authorized by the regents to confer the degree of doctor of medicine, doctor of medical science, doctor of dental surgery or doctor of osteopathy.
(iii) The institution must maintain one or more earned degree programs, culminating in an associate or higher degree.
(iv) The institution must meet such standards of educational quality applicable to comparable public institutions of higher education, as may be from time to time established by the regents.
(v) The institution must be eligible for state aid under the provisions of the constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of New York.
(vi) The institution must submit a financial statement which shall include total assets and liabilities, in such form as may be approved by the commissioner.

(b) An institution of higher education located in this state, at least one-half of the students of which are economically disadvantaged, and the course credits and degrees of which are offered by a consortium of sponsoring colleges, each of which sponsoring colleges satisfies the following requirements, shall qualify for state aid apportionments pursuant to this section:(i) The sponsoring college must be non-profit college or university incorporated by the regents or by the legislature.
(ii) The sponsoring college must maintain one or more earned degree programs, culminating in an associate or higher degree.
(iii) The sponsoring college must meet such standards of educational quality applicable to comparable public institutions of higher education, as may be from time to time established by the regents.
(iv) The sponsoring college must be eligible for state aid under the provisions of the constitution of the United States and the constitution of the state of New York.
(v) The sponsoring college must submit a financial statement which shall include total assets and liabilities, in such form as may be approved by the commissioner.




A wonderful discussion by JSJ and the Beast.

Correct me if I'm wrong(Beast I know you used to work at SJU)

One of the reasons tuition was so low during the Fr. Cahill era compared to other private schools was that he refused to take on Bundy Aid that was offered in the 1970's-1980's. By not being tied into the federal government at the time, SJU was able to have a much more affordable tuition.

I wonder what would happen if the school adopted that policy today, would they go bankrupt?

  
Click to expand...
 
 
 From Transformational Leadership, by Jim Pellow, which you can get on-line for free

Page 118

The university's policy of keeping tuition low, refusing Bundy Aid and avoiding debt, were promoted by Father Cahill as consistent with the university's Vincentian and Catholic values.

St. John's kept tuition low as a means to provide access to local students , but neither measured the impact of the policy nor recognized the lost opportunity of charging higher tuition to those that could pay.

St. John's was a private institution trying to compete with public colleges on price.

One estimate suggested that St. John's priced $2,000 less than its peers in the mid-1980's.

With more than 14,000 undergraduates, this equated to $28 million in available revenue that would have been available to enhance academic quality or support financial aid to poor students.

Moreover, by remaining the sole Catholic university in New york State to refuse BUNDY AID, St. John's rejected $71 million in state funds, demonstrating Father Cahill's emphasis on the "Catholic" element of mission over the university's mission to provide academic quality and access to poor students.

In addition, Father Cahill's aversion to assuming debt resulted in the university using cash to build facilities and a policy that restricted significant physical expansion to meet growing student demands.

The 1985 Middle States Self Evaluation identified the lack of adequate space and academic facilities as the university's biggest unmet needs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top