Mike Jarvis Sr. Makes Appearance on The Truth Sideline Podcast

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fuchsia said:
Once again I cite Francesa's comment that Jarvis intentionally skipped the President's dinner in order to get himself fired before coaching a losing team.
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Speaking of President's dinner, Bruce Beck was so prepared, so passionate, elegantly dressed, so perfect as MC of the President's dinner, several folks I spoke witb contrasted Beck with Francessa who was the polar opposite, unprepared, off point, and dressed like a slob. It was clear he grabbed a crumpled sportscoat after getting off the air, and rushed over to the event.
 
Jarvis left the program in terrible shape - HS recruiting dried up on his watch and his attempts with JUCOs were spotty at best. At the end of his time, the program was a complete disaster and it took years to recover.

That said, he did very well with Fran's players (likely better than Fran would have done), and I will always give him credit for being able to coax 20 wins and an NCAA bid out of Marcus Hatten (an all-timer), Glover (tough and hard-nosed but limited) and a collection of misfit toys. That was an excellent coaching job.
 
RedmanMike said:
Jarvis left the program in terrible shape - HS recruiting dried up on his watch and his attempts with JUCOs were spotty at best. At the end of his time, the program was a complete disaster and it took years to recover.

That said, he did very well with Fran's players (likely better than Fran would have done), and I will always give him credit for being able to coax 20 wins and an NCAA bid out of Marcus Hatten (an all-timer), Glover (tough and hard-nosed but limited) and a collection of misfit toys. That was an excellent coaching job.
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Jarvis was arrogant, turned off the local hoops community and was full of himself. Give him credit for getting a great group to Elite Eight, but nothing else imo.
 
RedmanMike said:
Jarvis left the program in terrible shape - HS recruiting dried up on his watch and his attempts with JUCOs were spotty at best. At the end of his time, the program was a complete disaster and it took years to recover.

That said, he did very well with Fran's players (likely better than Fran would have done), and I will always give him credit for being able to coax 20 wins and an NCAA bid out of Marcus Hatten (an all-timer), Glover (tough and hard-nosed but limited) and a collection of misfit toys. That was an excellent coaching job.
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Completely disagree with "better than Fran would have done."

He Who Shall Not Be Named didn't coach that team at all, nor did it need any coaching. Fran might have gotten to the Final 4 and perhaps beyond with that squad. He could coach.
 
RedmanMike said:
Jarvis left the program in terrible shape - HS recruiting dried up on his watch and his attempts with JUCOs were spotty at best. At the end of his time, the program was a complete disaster and it took years to recover.

That said, he did very well with Fran's players (likely better than Fran would have done), and I will always give him credit for being able to coax 20 wins and an NCAA bid out of Marcus Hatten (an all-timer), Glover (tough and hard-nosed but limited) and a collection of misfit toys. That was an excellent coaching job.
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I've always felt that Marcus Hatten (another guy who like the Riverside crew did not need coaching) was one of the best and one of the worst things to happen to St Johns. PS both those scenarios were awful once they got in to the infamous Jarvis mid court weave, only good when they played on instinct.

Watching him play and lift otherwise mediocre teams to heights they otherwise had no shot at was transcendent.

However getting that team to the dance despite Willie Shaw and Kyle Cuffe falling off their sophomore years (was it coaching or was it THC?), and mostly taking a 17-13 team to the NIT title made it hard to fire Jarvis when he deserved it. NIT team was 12-12 when Duke came to town and Jarvis was toast, and rightly so. Then Hatten show that night was amazing. It also gave a lifeless program some momentum. The beat two bad teams after that. Then they finally got a win against a ranked team (ND) in the first round of the BET. Take away Hatten's heroics, which let's be honest were mostly freestyle excellence, and Jarvis gets fired March 10 2003. Job is far more attractive and of course does not have the admin on edge as it was after Pittsburgh. They would have been able to hire an experienced coach (hell, may Jay would have wanted to leave Nova after a losing season ;) otherwise do you think Seth Greenberg would have taken STJ over Va Tech or Mick Cronin over Murray State, it was his first HC gig but he was the HOT assistant at the time?) and the program does not fall into the abyss.

So no more "Blame Canada", blame Hatten!
 
austour said:
I've always felt that Marcus Hatten (another guy who like the Riverside crew did not need coaching) was one of the best and one of the worst things to happen to St Johns. PS both those scenarios were awful once they got in to the infamous Jarvis mid court weave, only good when they played on instinct.

Watching him play and lift otherwise mediocre teams to heights they otherwise had no shot at was transcendent.

However getting that team to the dance despite Willie Shaw and Kyle Cuffe falling off their sophomore years (was it coaching or was it THC?), and mostly taking a 17-13 team to the NIT title made it hard to fire Jarvis when he deserved it. NIT team was 12-12 when Duke came to town and Jarvis was toast, and rightly so. Then Hatten show that night was amazing. It also gave a lifeless program some momentum. The beat two bad teams after that. Then they finally got a win against a ranked team (ND) in the first round of the BET. Take away Hatten's heroics, which let's be honest were mostly freestyle excellence, and Jarvis gets fired March 10 2003. Job is far more attractive and of course does not have the admin on edge as it was after Pittsburgh. They would have been able to hire an experienced coach (hell, may Jay would have wanted to leave Nova after a losing season ;) otherwise do you think Seth Greenberg would have taken STJ over Va Tech or Mick Cronin over Murray State, it was his first HC gig but he was the HOT assistant at the time?) and the program does not fall into the abyss.

So no more "Blame Canada", blame Hatten!
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Austour great post solid what if analysis.
 
austour said:
I've always felt that Marcus Hatten (another guy who like the Riverside crew did not need coaching) was one of the best and one of the worst things to happen to St Johns. PS both those scenarios were awful once they got in to the infamous Jarvis mid court weave, only good when they played on instinct.

Watching him play and lift otherwise mediocre teams to heights they otherwise had no shot at was transcendent.

However getting that team to the dance despite Willie Shaw and Kyle Cuffe falling off their sophomore years (was it coaching or was it THC?), and mostly taking a 17-13 team to the NIT title made it hard to fire Jarvis when he deserved it. NIT team was 12-12 when Duke came to town and Jarvis was toast, and rightly so. Then Hatten show that night was amazing. It also gave a lifeless program some momentum. The beat two bad teams after that. Then they finally got a win against a ranked team (ND) in the first round of the BET. Take away Hatten's heroics, which let's be honest were mostly freestyle excellence, and Jarvis gets fired March 10 2003. Job is far more attractive and of course does not have the admin on edge as it was after Pittsburgh. They would have been able to hire an experienced coach (hell, may Jay would have wanted to leave Nova after a losing season ;) otherwise do you think Seth Greenberg would have taken STJ over Va Tech or Mick Cronin over Murray State, it was his first HC gig but he was the HOT assistant at the time?) and the program does not fall into the abyss.

So no more "Blame Canada", blame Hatten!
Click to expand...
I'm trying to figure out how many National Championships Seth Greenberg or Mick Cronin have. Jay leaving Nova? That's a big stretch. Not hiring Jay when he was at Hofstra was the biggest failing. Even Pitino spoke disparagingly of the program back then. Greenberg, Cronin, Wright? Surely you jest! Nobody wanted to come here. Nobody. That's how we got stuck with nice guy Brian Mahoney who won all of 16 games in three years at Manhattan. That's how we got stuck with Norm Roberts who could only win a grand total of 18 games in three years at Queens College. Please!

Jarvis is a good person. He coached one of the most exciting teams in St John's history. We were a foul that wasn't called away from going to the final four against a team that cheated enough that it had to relinquish its final four trophy. He won an NIT. His downfall? He couldn't bring himself to suck up to AAU bigs and mediocre high school coaches who wanted something in return for delivering players. That led him to mining the Jaycees which were a shell of the teams of previous decades. They were no longer producing the Walter Berry's, Billy Goodwin's, Boo Harvey's or Billy Paultz's of the world. He took what he could get. He couldn't bring himself to suck up to the president of the university. Arrogance? Maybe. He was a no-show at the president's dinner...he got fired.

Let's face it. That president ran the team into being a mid major in a big time conference...one of the best ever at that time. UCONN coach Jim Calhoun said the game was an "arms race". He knew how to win. While the big boys in the Big East had nukes...Harrington gave Jarvis a pea shooter. We lost our number one recruiting tool...the stipend. That stipend allowed the best local kids to come here and be paid legally. It wasn't long before Jarvis tried to do what cost Fran Fraschilla his job...look elsewhere. He came close...but when he failed, he gave up. He let one player keep his stipend. He let the inmates run the asylum. That's on Jarvis. He still picked up his checks...but to single him out as the reason for the downfall of the program is beyond ludicrous.

Enough with the hatred. The state of the program today in light of our past should bring us a greater appreciation of our current president and the people he brought here.
 
newsman13 said:
I'm trying to figure out how many National Championships Seth Greenberg or Mick Cronin have. Jay leaving Nova? That's a big stretch. Not hiring Jay when he was at Hofstra was the biggest failing. Even Pitino spoke disparagingly of the program back then. Greenberg, Cronin, Wright? Surely you jest! Nobody wanted to come here. Nobody. That's how we got stuck with nice guy Brian Mahoney who won all of 16 games in three years at Manhattan. That's how we got stuck with Norm Roberts who could only win a grand total of 18 games in three years at Queens College. Please!

Jarvis is a good person. He coached one of the most exciting teams in St John's history. We were a foul that wasn't called away from going to the final four against a team that cheated enough that it had to relinquish its final four trophy. He won an NIT. His downfall? He couldn't bring himself to suck up to AAU bigs and mediocre high school coaches who wanted something in return for delivering players. That led him to mining the Jaycees which were a shell of the teams of previous decades. They were no longer producing the Walter Berry's, Billy Goodwin's, Boo Harvey's or Billy Paultz's of the world. He took what he could get. He couldn't bring himself to suck up to the president of the university. Arrogance? Maybe. He was a no-show at the president's dinner...he got fired.

Let's face it. That president ran the team into being a mid major in a big time conference...one of the best ever at that time. UCONN coach Jim Calhoun said the game was an "arms race". He knew how to win. While the big boys in the Big East had nukes...Harrington gave Jarvis a pea shooter. We lost our number one recruiting tool...the stipend. That stipend allowed the best local kids to come here and be paid legally. It wasn't long before Jarvis tried to do what cost Fran Fraschilla his job...look elsewhere. He came close...but when he failed, he gave up. He let one player keep his stipend. He let the inmates run the asylum. That's on Jarvis. He still picked up his checks...but to single him out as the reason for the downfall of the program is beyond ludicrous.

Enough with the hatred. The state of the program today in light of our past should bring us a greater appreciation of our current president and the people he brought here.
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Not turning away and speaking up in the face of obvious malfeasance is called character.
 
SJU Post-Lou Coaching Disappointment Power Rankings

1. Jarvis - all hype, disastrous damage
2. Fran - should have been a great fit
3. Mullin - great players don't necessarily make great coaches
4. Norm - out of his depth
5. Anderson - poor band-aid on a gaping hole
6. Mahoney - came in with a loaded cupboard; couldn't make a thing
7. Lavin - circumstances worked against him
 
firestorm said:
SJU Post-Lou Coaching Disappointment Power Rankings

1. Jarvis - all hype, disastrous damage
2. Fran - should have been a great fit
3. Mullin - great players don't necessarily make great coaches
4. Norm - out of his depth
5. Anderson - poor band-aid on a gaping hole
6. Mahoney - came in with a loaded cupboard; couldn't make a thing
7. Lavin - circumstances worked against him
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I’d drop Fran down because he did all Jarvis recruiting for him
 
firestorm said:
SJU Post-Lou Coaching Disappointment Power Rankings

1. Jarvis - all hype, disastrous damage
2. Fran - should have been a great fit
3. Mullin - great players don't necessarily make great coaches
4. Norm - out of his depth
5. Anderson - poor band-aid on a gaping hole
6. Mahoney - came in with a loaded cupboard; couldn't make a thing
7. Lavin - circumstances worked against him
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All disappointments, but the two that standout to me are the ones that never made the big dance in red and white.
 
newsman13 said:
I'm trying to figure out how many National Championships Seth Greenberg or Mick Cronin have. Jay leaving Nova? That's a big stretch. Not hiring Jay when he was at Hofstra was the biggest failing. Even Pitino spoke disparagingly of the program back then. Greenberg, Cronin, Wright? Surely you jest! Nobody wanted to come here. Nobody. That's how we got stuck with nice guy Brian Mahoney who won all of 16 games in three years at Manhattan. That's how we got stuck with Norm Roberts who could only win a grand total of 18 games in three years at Queens College. Please!

Jarvis is a good person. He coached one of the most exciting teams in St John's history. We were a foul that wasn't called away from going to the final four against a team that cheated enough that it had to relinquish its final four trophy. He won an NIT. His downfall? He couldn't bring himself to suck up to AAU bigs and mediocre high school coaches who wanted something in return for delivering players. That led him to mining the Jaycees which were a shell of the teams of previous decades. They were no longer producing the Walter Berry's, Billy Goodwin's, Boo Harvey's or Billy Paultz's of the world. He took what he could get. He couldn't bring himself to suck up to the president of the university. Arrogance? Maybe. He was a no-show at the president's dinner...he got fired.

Let's face it. That president ran the team into being a mid major in a big time conference...one of the best ever at that time. UCONN coach Jim Calhoun said the game was an "arms race". He knew how to win. While the big boys in the Big East had nukes...Harrington gave Jarvis a pea shooter. We lost our number one recruiting tool...the stipend. That stipend allowed the best local kids to come here and be paid legally. It wasn't long before Jarvis tried to do what cost Fran Fraschilla his job...look elsewhere. He came close...but when he failed, he gave up. He let one player keep his stipend. He let the inmates run the asylum. That's on Jarvis. He still picked up his checks...but to single him out as the reason for the downfall of the program is beyond ludicrous.

Enough with the hatred. The state of the program today in light of our past should bring us a greater appreciation of our current president and the people he brought here.
Click to expand...
As i recall they didn't take away the stipend until the Grady and Pitt incidents both of which happened under Uncle Phil's watch. At the same time and at an institutional level Harrington was trying to move STJ away from a commuter school which gave him more justification for the decision.

But in the end Jarvis rode his HS connection to Ewing, and to a lesser extent Yinka Dare and Shawta Rogers at GW, well beyond his actual ceiling and St Johns paid the price.

PS I don't hate him, don't even know him. I just think he sucked at his job.
 
Seth Greenberg or Mick Cronin would have been a huge upgrade over Jarvis. Huge, not even remotely débatable. And yes Jarvis firing led to Norm who never should have been hired.
 
austour said:
As i recall they didn't take away the stipend until the Grady and Pitt incidents both of which happened under Uncle Phil's watch. At the same time and at an institutional level Harrington was trying to move STJ away from a commuter school which gave him more justification for the decision.

But in the end Jarvis rode his HS connection to Ewing, and to a lesser extent Yinka Dare and Shawta Rogers at GW, well beyond his actual ceiling and St Johns paid the price.

PS I don't hate him, don't even know him. I just think he sucked at his job.
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And just to clarify, I know, pittsburgh didn't come under his direct wash.But it was directly resultant of his having been the coach at the beginning of the year.
 
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