Last Place In The Big East

ghostzapper

ghostzapper

Well-known member
2023 $upporter
If it was not for Butler we would be sitting in last place in the Big East. However there are losses and then there are losses. Butler is 0 and 4 but their three home losses were all in overtime and they easily could have won all of those games. Only at Xavier were they actually put away.losing by eleven on the road. Additionally their two out of conference losses were both nail-biters to then #5 Oklahoma State by 2 points and yet another overtime loss to LSU also by two points. They are a team that is 10-6 but very easily could be 15-1 and nationally ranked.

On the other hand we are 9-6 and have been underdogs in only five games all of which we lost. We have had some games that we might have won if things had gone differently, but mostly we have been beaten fairly convincingly in every loss except for Penn State where we favored and probably should have won. Our 0-3 conference record looks worse to me than Butler's 0-4.

That being said we have eight home games left on our conference schedule and two of our tougher road opponents (Xavier and Georgetown) are behind us. However the clock is ticking on this season and a turn-around needs to happen very soon if Lavin's prediction of a February blossoming is to have any meaning. I know we have not met expectations yet, but I will stay the course and hope we can start turning this thing around before it is too late.

A few years ago the hated UCONN Huskies were in the midst of a totally mediocre season losing four of their last five conference games. In fact in February of that season they were completely run off the garden floor by the Red Storm and looked like anything but a tournament team. However they somehow blazed through the Big East and NCAA tournaments and won one of the most improbable national championships ever.

I know that at this moment it doesn't look likely that our season will end positively, but it is too early to give up the ship. To quote the late great Jim Valvano, "Never give up, never give up, Never give up"
 
If it was not for Butler we would be sitting in last place in the Big East. However there are losses and then there are losses. Butler is 0 and 4 but their three home losses were all in overtime and they easily could have won all of those games. Only at Xavier were they actually put away.losing by eleven on the road. Additionally their two out of conference losses were both nail-biters to then #5 Oklahoma State by 2 points and yet another overtime loss to LSU also by two points. They are a team that is 10-6 but very easily could be 15-1 and nationally ranked.

On the other hand we are 9-6 and have been underdogs in only five games all of which we lost. We have had some games that we might have won if things had gone differently, but mostly we have been beaten fairly convincingly in every loss except for Penn State where we favored and probably should have won. Our 0-3 conference record looks worse to me than Butler's 0-4.

That being said we have eight home games left on our conference schedule and two of our tougher road opponents (Xavier and Georgetown) are behind us. However the clock is ticking on this season and a turn-around needs to happen very soon if Lavin's prediction of a February blossoming is to have any meaning. I know we have not met expectations yet, but I will stay the course and hope we can start turning this thing around before it is too late.

A few years ago the hated UCONN Huskies were in the midst of a totally mediocre season losing four of their last five conference games. In fact in February of that season they were completely run off the garden floor by the Red Storm and looked like anything but a tournament team. However they somehow blazed through the Big East and NCAA tournaments and won one of the most improbable national championships ever.

I know that at this moment it doesn't look likely that our season will end positively, but it is too early to give up the ship. To quote the late great Jim Valvano, "Never give up, never give up, Never give up"
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Hall of Fame Coach v. Bozo the Clown. Sorry!
 
If it was not for Butler we would be sitting in last place in the Big East. However there are losses and then there are losses. Butler is 0 and 4 but their three home losses were all in overtime and they easily could have won all of those games. Only at Xavier were they actually put away.losing by eleven on the road. Additionally their two out of conference losses were both nail-biters to then #5 Oklahoma State by 2 points and yet another overtime loss to LSU also by two points. They are a team that is 10-6 but very easily could be 15-1 and nationally ranked.

On the other hand we are 9-6 and have been underdogs in only five games all of which we lost. We have had some games that we might have won if things had gone differently, but mostly we have been beaten fairly convincingly in every loss except for Penn State where we favored and probably should have won. Our 0-3 conference record looks worse to me than Butler's 0-4.

That being said we have eight home games left on our conference schedule and two of our tougher road opponents (Xavier and Georgetown) are behind us. However the clock is ticking on this season and a turn-around needs to happen very soon if Lavin's prediction of a February blossoming is to have any meaning. I know we have not met expectations yet, but I will stay the course and hope we can start turning this thing around before it is too late.

A few years ago the hated UCONN Huskies were in the midst of a totally mediocre season losing four of their last five conference games. In fact in February of that season they were completely run off the garden floor by the Red Storm and looked like anything but a tournament team. However they somehow blazed through the Big East and NCAA tournaments and won one of the most improbable national championships ever.

I know that at this moment it doesn't look likely that our season will end positively, but it is too early to give up the ship. To quote the late great Jim Valvano, "Never give up, never give up, Never give up"
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Thanks for the post, honestly we don't have enough opportunities to play ourselves into the tournament in the regular season. Of course we could go on a tear the rest of the season, but I don't see it happening.

The only chance we have now is winning the conference tournament. As class of 72 stated a few days ago, the top six teams of the big east conference get automatic bids to the quarterfinals of the conference tournament. The 7-10 teams have to play in an opening round.

So I think a reasonable goal for this team is to scratch and claw to the top six of the conference standings, and increase our chances of winning the BE tourney.
 
Paultzman Wrote: Hall of Fame Coach v. Bozo the Clown. Sorry!

No doubt circumstances are different here than at UCONN or the 1983 NC State team but the fun in being a fan of a team that is having a disappointing season is that you never know in sports what can happen. I never was less high on a football Giant team then I was in 2007 when their defense was a total mess and I thought their coach didn't have a clue on how to win football games. Before that run Tom Coughlin didn't look any better to me than Steve Lavin does now. In fact he looked worse cause he didn't even have media savvy to explain the mess on the field. However a miraculous improbable run that season turned everything from garbage into gold. I know that this may not be likely with the Red Storm this season, but it is that hope that makes me go back to the Garden and Carnesecca arena every game and root my tail off for these kids.
 
You want to know the craziest thing. I think home court advantage should be at least a +6. When we play at the Garden, especially against a Big East team that can put 3,000+ in the building, it's often no more than +1, if even that. Crazy at it sounds given the way we've played, if we played Syracuse or Nova at a packed CA, with only a couple hundred visiting fans, I think we'd have won both games if the fans were in it. Coaches of winning teams are fond of calling fans their sixth man. In our case, collectively our fans have little impact on games at MSG.
 
You want to know the craziest thing. I think home court advantage should be at least a +6. When we play at the Garden, especially against a Big East team that can put 3,000+ in the building, it's often no more than +1, if even that. Crazy at it sounds given the way we've played, if we played Syracuse or Nova at a packed CA, with only a couple hundred visiting fans, I think we'd have won both games if the fans were in it. Coaches of winning teams are fond of calling fans their sixth man. In our, collectively our fans have little impact on games at MSG.
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Accurate assumption. Unless SJU is having a great year and has NY's support the garden is not a great Home court advantage. Not like the typical pit that we go into on the road. However it is a great recruiting tool and that's its main purpose.
 
Unfortunately our BE competitors can use MSG as a recruiting tool as well. It is a nice trip to NYC to play in front of a non-partisan crowd during the regular season and another visit during the BE tourney. It is hardly a fortress for SJU. At this stage, until we bcome relevant again, I would like to see us reduce the # of games played there.
 
By the time this team "hits it stride" in February the season will be over.

Lavin remains "bold" about what the team can achieve. Hello...NCAA hopes are over and its only January.. Pathetic.

Fans and alumni, like us, have already reset our expectations and realize that if the team improves and improves during the season that we make the NIT. We'll lose 2 against Creighton, lose to G-town again, and likely split Butler, and Seton Hall. If we play really well maybe we go 10-8 in conference. If we don't, we'll go 9-9 or 8-10.

Now let's get pumped for our NIT bound squad the remainder of the year!!!! :evil:
 
To sum up where things stand right now, here are a few pre-season notes from ESPN’s Kieran Darcy (who appears to be one of the few writers unswayed by Lavin’s charm.)

“To put things in some perspective, Kentucky, the preseason top-ranked team in the country, has nine players who made ESPN's Top 100 as high school seniors. Michigan State, ranked No. 2, has eight of them.

St. John's is close behind with six.

They've got talent, they've got balance, and they've got plenty of minutes under their belt, other than Jordan.

To be frank, barring major injuries, anything less than an NCAA tournament bid would be a disaster.”

Talk of making the NIT is just depressing—and infuriating.
 
You want to know the craziest thing. I think home court advantage should be at least a +6. When we play at the Garden, especially against a Big East team that can put 3,000+ in the building, it's often no more than +1, if even that. Crazy at it sounds given the way we've played, if we played Syracuse or Nova at a packed CA, with only a couple hundred visiting fans, I think we'd have won both games if the fans were in it. Coaches of winning teams are fond of calling fans their sixth man. In our, collectively our fans have little impact on games at MSG.
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Accurate assumption. Unless SJU is having a great year and has NY's support the garden is not a great Home court advantage. Not like the typical pit that we go into on the road. However it is a great recruiting tool and that's its main purpose.
Click to expand...

Far more than a recruiting tool, its all about asses in the seats, and dollars in the cash register. St. John's prefers both, whether those butts and dollars belong to opposing fans. It's kind of like filling the school with students with SAT scores in the 900-1000 range, which they do.
 
Unfortunately our BE competitors can use MSG as a recruiting tool as well. It is a nice trip to NYC to play in front of a non-partisan crowd during the regular season and another visit during the BE tourney. It is hardly a fortress for SJU. At this stage, until we bcome relevant again, I would like to see us reduce the # of games played there.
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I agree with all that you said, TX, except I don't believe we can afford to reduce the number of our games played there. If we did that, then that would be just the thing the ACC would use to get their tournament here. Especially 'Cuse, ND and Pitt. At the least, those three would love to see many of their "home" games at MSG so they can use it once again as a recruiting tool.

No, as much as MSG is a neutral court for us, at least until we start winning again, I think we must have many of our home games there.
 
You want to know the craziest thing. I think home court advantage should be at least a +6. When we play at the Garden, especially against a Big East team that can put 3,000+ in the building, it's often no more than +1, if even that. Crazy at it sounds given the way we've played, if we played Syracuse or Nova at a packed CA, with only a couple hundred visiting fans, I think we'd have won both games if the fans were in it. Coaches of winning teams are fond of calling fans their sixth man. In our, collectively our fans have little impact on games at MSG.
Click to expand...


Accurate assumption. Unless SJU is having a great year and has NY's support the garden is not a great Home court advantage. Not like the typical pit that we go into on the road. However it is a great recruiting tool and that's its main purpose.
Click to expand...

Far more than a recruiting tool, its all about asses in the seats, and dollars in the cash register. St. John's prefers both, whether those butts and dollars belong to opposing fans. It's kind of like filling the school with students with SAT scores in the 900-1000 range, which they do.
Click to expand...


Hey that's funny. They took me with 1045 SAT's
 
To sum up where things stand right now, here are a few pre-season notes from ESPN’s Kieran Darcy (who appears to be one of the few writers unswayed by Lavin’s charm.)

“To put things in some perspective, Kentucky, the preseason top-ranked team in the country, has nine players who made ESPN's Top 100 as high school seniors. Michigan State, ranked No. 2, has eight of them.

St. John's is close behind with six.

They've got talent, they've got balance, and they've got plenty of minutes under their belt, other than Jordan.

To be frank, barring major injuries, anything less than an NCAA tournament bid would be a disaster.”

Talk of making the NIT is just depressing—and infuriating.
Click to expand...

wasn't sanchez also a Juco all-american? or was that god's gift?


It's truly embarassing what a terrible job Lavin has done. Going into this season, if you told me we would make the tournament, but lost first rd, i'd be infuriated. now, we might not even make the NIT!!!!

This program is a joke.
 
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