Johnny Thunderbird stay on perch

I'm so relieved that we're not becoming the St. John's Johnnies. :ngrin:
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I'm all for Redmen with no references whatsoever to Native Americans. I also don't think anyone would protest a change back to redmen if a new logo was created.
 
I'm so relieved that we're not becoming the St. John's Johnnies. :ngrin:
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I'm all for Redmen with no references whatsoever to Native Americans. I also don't think anyone would protest a change back to redmen if a new logo was created.
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Without a doubt they still would. We live in an age where you have to walk on eggshells. Redmen would not fly even though I would like to see it back too.
 
I'm so relieved that we're not becoming the St. John's Johnnies. :ngrin:
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I'm all for Redmen with no references whatsoever to Native Americans. I also don't think anyone would protest a change back to redmen if a new logo was created.
Click to expand...

Without a doubt they still would. We live in an age where you have to walk on eggshells. Redmen would not fly even though I would like to see it back too.
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The response to any protest should be the following:

Historically the team name "Redmen" had no relationship to Native Americans, and it was only in a period where such relationships were popular that the reference was added. After a name change many years ago, it is clear to our fans and students that the name Redmen is in no way associated in contemporary minds with Native Americans and as such we have returned to our historical roots by resurrecting (intended spelling) the name.
 
I'm so relieved that we're not becoming the St. John's Johnnies. :ngrin:
Click to expand...

I'm all for Redmen with no references whatsoever to Native Americans. I also don't think anyone would protest a change back to redmen if a new logo was created.
Click to expand...
I was in San Diego recently and they have "We are Aztecs" billboards /ads all over. Many of them feature an Aztec warrior including his own version of a head dress, who is the mascot of San Diego St. SDSt killed off their original mascot "Monty Montezuma" for the same type of reasons as the redmen logo/name was changed but somehow this modern version is still a pretty cool mascot (and one the fans appreciate) and still ethnically specific but acceptable even in a State institution, in arguably the most politically correct state in the country. Without a doubt, San Diego is right on the border of Mexico and Mexican people and culture are firmly and deeply rooted in the local history and culture. The only difference seeming to be that the current Aztec Warrior is meant to be an authentic representation rather than a cartoonish caricature.

Perhaps this is the appropriate approach.
 
I'm so relieved that we're not becoming the St. John's Johnnies. :ngrin:
Click to expand...

I'm all for Redmen with no references whatsoever to Native Americans. I also don't think anyone would protest a change back to redmen if a new logo was created.
Click to expand...
I was in San Diego recently and they have "We are Aztecs" billboards /ads all over. Many of them feature an Aztec warrior including his own version of a head dress, who is the mascot of San Diego St. SDSt killed off their original mascot "Monty Montezuma" for the same type of reasons as the redmen logo/name was changed but somehow this modern version is still a pretty cool mascot (and one the fans appreciate) and still ethnically specific but acceptable even in a State institution, in arguably the most politically correct state in the country. Without a doubt, San Diego is right on the border of Mexico and Mexican people and culture are firmly and deeply rooted in the local history and culture. The only difference seeming to be that the current Aztec Warrior is meant to be an authentic representation rather than a cartoonish caricature.

Perhaps this is the appropriate approach.
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The Redskins have an authentic representation of a Native American on their helmets, but they are still being pressured to change. And the Cleveland Indians actually DO have an offensive caricature as their logo and they don't seem to get called out. It's exactly backwards for some reason. You never hear Notre Dame's logo being "offensive". I think people need to just suck it up and understand the importance of tradition.
 
Change name to the St. John's Red. Then you can have Red Men merchandise everywhere. Pronounced just the same as Redmen, and no one gives us shit.
 
I think people need to just suck it up and understand the importance of tradition.
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Yeah, but if the tradition is thought to be racist, then people aren't going to want to suck it up. The Redskins is a pretty stupid name, but they aren't changing short of Congress telling them to. And the Indians should change their logo. But I personally didn't have a problem with North Dakota's logo or name. But I'm not Sioux, so I really don't have much say in the matter.

I'm Italian and Scottish. I personally wouldn't be offended if some team had as their mascot a cheapskate with plastic slipcovers everywhere, but I don't feel I have the right to tell same-heritage people that they shouldn't be offended about it if they were.
 
I think people need to just suck it up and understand the importance of tradition.
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Yeah, but if the tradition is thought to be racist, then people aren't going to want to suck it up. The Redskins is a pretty stupid name, but they aren't changing short of Congress telling them too. And the Indians should change their logo. But I personally didn't have a problem with North Dakota's logo or name. But I'm not Sioux, so I really don't have much say in the matter.

I'm Italian and Scottish. I personally wouldn't be offended if some team had as their mascot a cheapskate with plastic slipcovers everywhere, but I don't feel I have the right to tell same-heritage people that they shouldn't be offended about it if they were.
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I'm half Italian myself and I would not give 2 craps if they had a team called the New York Goodfellas or Olive Skins. I could understand if other fanbases were being racist towards Redskins fans making fun of Indians and all that, but no one even thinks of it in that sense. It's a football team and nothing more. The Redskins logo is an accurate portrait of an Indian. I think it should be either/or...either allow Irish (ND), Redskins, Indians, etc. to all exist or don't allow any "people" to be a team name. That will get rid of the grey area. Next we are going to hear that the New York Jets are anti-airplanes and the New York Giants are making fun of people with pituitary gland disorders that allow them grow to be giants. Where does it end?
 
I think people need to just suck it up and understand the importance of tradition.
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Yeah, but if the tradition is thought to be racist, then people aren't going to want to suck it up. The Redskins is a pretty stupid name, but they aren't changing short of Congress telling them too. And the Indians should change their logo. But I personally didn't have a problem with North Dakota's logo or name. But I'm not Sioux, so I really don't have much say in the matter.

I'm Italian and Scottish. I personally wouldn't be offended if some team had as their mascot a cheapskate with plastic slipcovers everywhere, but I don't feel I have the right to tell same-heritage people that they shouldn't be offended about it if they were.
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I'm half Italian myself and I would not give 2 craps if they had a team called the New York Goodfellas or Olive Skins. I could understand if other fanbases were being racist towards Redskins fans making fun of Indians and all that, but no one even thinks of it in that sense. It's a football team and nothing more. The Redskins logo is an accurate portrait of an Indian. I think it should be either/or...either allow Irish (ND), Redskins, Indians, etc. to all exist or don't allow any "people" to be a team name. That will get rid of the grey area. Next we are going to hear that the New York Jets are anti-airplanes and the New York Giants are making fun of people with pituitary gland disorders that allow them grow to be giants. Where does it end?
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I happen to understand and am sympathetic to offensive ethnic and racial stereotypes. I'm Italian-American, and travel extensively domestically. Over the years, when travelling to places where they haven't encountered many New York Italian-Americans, I've been asked if I know anyone in the mafia, or if I'm in the mafia, things like that. I'm also aware that I'm often perceived to be of a 'certain type' even if it isn't spoken. So, yea, to discard team names or logos that reinforce negative stereotypes does make sense.

It would seem to me, though, that a name like the "Indians" is not by itself, offensive, and a name like Warriors could reinforce a positive attribute, Redskins is actually a slur. It's funny to bring this up, but in recent weeks on Shelter Island, a few residents have discussed the positive and negative virtues HS team's name (Indians) in the editorial of the local newspaper.

Redmen was not intended to have a racial connotation. It was an overreaction by a school that didn't try to do the right thing, but the politically correct, expedient thing that wouldn't ruffle feathers that weren't being ruffled anyway.
 
I have suggested this time and time again the student section should become the REDZONE REDMEN similar to how duke has the cameron crazies. it is the only way that i see Redmen coming back, and this cannot be the school doing this has to be something born and maintained by the students. after the Harrington scandal the school is too pc to do anything that is even remotely controversial.

Staying on topic im very happy that Johnny Thunderbird is staying and even happier that we are not nor will ever be the St. John's Johnnies.
 
I have suggested this time and time again the student section should become the REDZONE REDMEN similar to how duke has the cameron crazies. it is the only way that i see Redmen coming back, and this cannot be the school doing this has to be something born and maintained by the students. after the Harrington scandal the school is too pc to do anything that is even remotely controversial.

Staying on topic im very happy that Johnny Thunderbird is staying and even happier that we are not nor will ever be the St. John's Johnnies.
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Students have no sense of history. It's why the older fans muse over days gone by, and lament over the rock bottom years, but today, if we jettisoned into the top 10, fans would materialize in droves. At this point a freshman was 10 years old when St. John's hired Norm Roberts - Quickly that era will become totally unimportant to students. As far as fans are concerned, only today matters. If the Mets win 100 games next year (dream on), Citifield will fill to the rafters. If Duke tumbles to the bottom of the ACC, the only crazies at Cameron will be those dumb enough to buy tickets. That's the way sports goes.

Having said all that, Redzone Redmen is a great idea.. T-Shirts and a large banner would do it.
 
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