Jayson Williams
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[quote="fuchsia" post=356374]Would be helpful to me if one of the attorneys on here explained the difference between mens rea and being responsible.[/quote]
I am not a criminal lawyer but here goes.
Mens Rea deals with intention, did the defendant intend to commit the crime. However, in certain instances you can still be guilty of a crime , or a lesser crime, even though there was no intent but if the defendants conduct was so grossly negligent or irresponsible.
Jayson in all probability never intended to hurt or kill the driver. However his conduct was super irresponsable , drunk and aiming a loaded gun at someone , that while there was no mens rea he was guilty of a charge less than first degree murder.
I hope this helps.
I am not a criminal lawyer but here goes.
Mens Rea deals with intention, did the defendant intend to commit the crime. However, in certain instances you can still be guilty of a crime , or a lesser crime, even though there was no intent but if the defendants conduct was so grossly negligent or irresponsible.
Jayson in all probability never intended to hurt or kill the driver. However his conduct was super irresponsable , drunk and aiming a loaded gun at someone , that while there was no mens rea he was guilty of a charge less than first degree murder.
I hope this helps.
[quote="frank" post=356375]Please pray and root for him. He gave us a lot of pleasure when he played for us and he is still a big fan of StJ.[/quote]
And the pleasure you got watching and rooting during basketball games cancels out killing a man and then attempting to cover it up? I love basketball, outside of my family the primary enjoyment of my life, but root for him, in what way? I wish him no ill will but rooting, not me. Praying is different but most of my prayers are for the family who lost a loved one.
And the pleasure you got watching and rooting during basketball games cancels out killing a man and then attempting to cover it up? I love basketball, outside of my family the primary enjoyment of my life, but root for him, in what way? I wish him no ill will but rooting, not me. Praying is different but most of my prayers are for the family who lost a loved one.
[quote="redmannorth" post=356376][quote="fuchsia" post=356374]Would be helpful to me if one of the attorneys on here explained the difference between mens rea and being responsible.[/quote]
I am not a criminal lawyer but here goes.
Mens Rea deals with intention, did the defendant intend to commit the crime. However, in certain instances you can still be guilty of a crime , or a lesser crime, even though there was no intent but if the defendants conduct was so grossly negligent or irresponsible.
Jayson in all probability never intended to hurt or kill the driver. However his conduct was super irresponsable , drunk and aiming a loaded gun at someone , that while there was no mens rea he was guilty of a charge less than first degree murder.
I hope this helps.[/quote]
Also not a lawyer but isn't that similar to the difference between murder and manslaughter ie. Intent vs reckless conduct.
I am not a criminal lawyer but here goes.
Mens Rea deals with intention, did the defendant intend to commit the crime. However, in certain instances you can still be guilty of a crime , or a lesser crime, even though there was no intent but if the defendants conduct was so grossly negligent or irresponsible.
Jayson in all probability never intended to hurt or kill the driver. However his conduct was super irresponsable , drunk and aiming a loaded gun at someone , that while there was no mens rea he was guilty of a charge less than first degree murder.
I hope this helps.[/quote]
Also not a lawyer but isn't that similar to the difference between murder and manslaughter ie. Intent vs reckless conduct.
beast of the east
Active member
Substance abuse cause people under the influence to do things they'd never consider when sober - like taunting someone with a loaded gun, or perhaps thinking it was outrageously funny to squeeze off a shot in the general direction of someone intending to miss him.
Whatever the circumstance, rooting for a recovery for Jayson neither condones or absolves him of his behavior. Substance addiction has contributed to destroying his life, and while it's easy for those of us without sin to cast stones, it's fair to say Jayson is a man of extremes.
Reminder that while we cast adulation on former players who root for us on social media, William's as a former NBA star was a frequent attendee at sju games. He unabashedly was on his feet rooting, waving his arms, yelling, and supporting our guys.
Also would remind fans that jayson made what I believe is the biggest donation any former athlete made to sju. If memory serves me. He donated $1 million to the school, no small amount for anyone.
Yes, his extremely reckless, thoughtless murder of a man, even if accidental, destroyed a life. It's nice to say you've prayed for that man and his family, but if I had to guess, jayson has spent far more remorseful moments than all the people offering prayers combined. He did offer a civil settlement with his family that was accepted.
To their credit, sju has quietly not abandoned Jayson through his tribulations.
A friend of mine who volunteers in prison ministries once told me that convicts are often eternally branded by the worst moment of their lives consummated in a few seconds. Certainly substances have caused Jayson to make some pretty horrible decisions, but without those few seconds, and maybe even with them, many of you would shake his hand or get an autograph from him for your kid even today.
Whatever the circumstance, rooting for a recovery for Jayson neither condones or absolves him of his behavior. Substance addiction has contributed to destroying his life, and while it's easy for those of us without sin to cast stones, it's fair to say Jayson is a man of extremes.
Reminder that while we cast adulation on former players who root for us on social media, William's as a former NBA star was a frequent attendee at sju games. He unabashedly was on his feet rooting, waving his arms, yelling, and supporting our guys.
Also would remind fans that jayson made what I believe is the biggest donation any former athlete made to sju. If memory serves me. He donated $1 million to the school, no small amount for anyone.
Yes, his extremely reckless, thoughtless murder of a man, even if accidental, destroyed a life. It's nice to say you've prayed for that man and his family, but if I had to guess, jayson has spent far more remorseful moments than all the people offering prayers combined. He did offer a civil settlement with his family that was accepted.
To their credit, sju has quietly not abandoned Jayson through his tribulations.
A friend of mine who volunteers in prison ministries once told me that convicts are often eternally branded by the worst moment of their lives consummated in a few seconds. Certainly substances have caused Jayson to make some pretty horrible decisions, but without those few seconds, and maybe even with them, many of you would shake his hand or get an autograph from him for your kid even today.
[quote="Beast of the East" post=356488]Substance abuse cause people under the influence to do things they'd never consider when sober - like taunting someone with a loaded gun, or perhaps thinking it was outrageously funny to squeeze off a shot in the general direction of someone intending to miss him.
Whatever the circumstance, rooting for a recovery for Jayson neither condones or absolves him of his behavior. Substance addiction has contributed to destroying his life, and while it's easy for those of us without sin to cast stones, it's fair to say Jayson is a man of extremes.
Reminder that while we cast adulation on former players who root for us on social media, William's as a former NBA star was a frequent attendee at sju games. He unabashedly was on his feet rooting, waving his arms, yelling, and supporting our guys.
Also would remind fans that jayson made what I believe is the biggest donation any former athlete made to sju. If memory serves me. He donated $1 million to the school, no small amount for anyone.
Yes, his extremely reckless, thoughtless murder of a man, even if accidental, destroyed a life. It's nice to say you've prayed for that man and his family, but if I had to guess, jayson has spent far more remorseful moments than all the people offering prayers combined. He did offer a civil settlement with his family that was accepted.
To their credit, sju has quietly not abandoned Jayson through his tribulations.
A friend of mine who volunteers in prison ministries once told me that convicts are often eternally branded by the worst moment of their lives consummated in a few seconds. Certainly substances have caused Jayson to make some pretty horrible decisions, but without those few seconds, and maybe even with them, many of you would shake his hand or get an autograph from him for your kid even today.[/quote]
I would prefer to ignore you but as usual that is an absolute crock of your holier than thou nonsense. It was well known how many “near misses” Williams had with loaded guns and excessive drinking. It was only a matter of time until there was a disaster. More than a few people I know stopped going to Williams’ after hours “parties” because of the insanity of his penchant for mixing drink and guns. I don’t care how much money he donated nor how much you idolize because of athletic ability, he was a tragedy waiting to happen.
Whatever the circumstance, rooting for a recovery for Jayson neither condones or absolves him of his behavior. Substance addiction has contributed to destroying his life, and while it's easy for those of us without sin to cast stones, it's fair to say Jayson is a man of extremes.
Reminder that while we cast adulation on former players who root for us on social media, William's as a former NBA star was a frequent attendee at sju games. He unabashedly was on his feet rooting, waving his arms, yelling, and supporting our guys.
Also would remind fans that jayson made what I believe is the biggest donation any former athlete made to sju. If memory serves me. He donated $1 million to the school, no small amount for anyone.
Yes, his extremely reckless, thoughtless murder of a man, even if accidental, destroyed a life. It's nice to say you've prayed for that man and his family, but if I had to guess, jayson has spent far more remorseful moments than all the people offering prayers combined. He did offer a civil settlement with his family that was accepted.
To their credit, sju has quietly not abandoned Jayson through his tribulations.
A friend of mine who volunteers in prison ministries once told me that convicts are often eternally branded by the worst moment of their lives consummated in a few seconds. Certainly substances have caused Jayson to make some pretty horrible decisions, but without those few seconds, and maybe even with them, many of you would shake his hand or get an autograph from him for your kid even today.[/quote]
I would prefer to ignore you but as usual that is an absolute crock of your holier than thou nonsense. It was well known how many “near misses” Williams had with loaded guns and excessive drinking. It was only a matter of time until there was a disaster. More than a few people I know stopped going to Williams’ after hours “parties” because of the insanity of his penchant for mixing drink and guns. I don’t care how much money he donated nor how much you idolize because of athletic ability, he was a tragedy waiting to happen.
Beastie and Logen, in my doctoral research the most striking finding was that the folks who had the most negative attitudes toward one clinical population (mentally ill, substance use, or dually diagnosed) had the most negative attitudes across the board. Judging "those people" may be a psychologically safer position for some, but it is not a functionally safer position, like Rosario in left field the other night, the ball always finds you.
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="Logen" post=356497][quote="Beast of the East" post=356488]Substance abuse cause people under the influence to do things they'd never consider when sober - like taunting someone with a loaded gun, or perhaps thinking it was outrageously funny to squeeze off a shot in the general direction of someone intending to miss him.
Whatever the circumstance, rooting for a recovery for Jayson neither condones or absolves him of his behavior. Substance addiction has contributed to destroying his life, and while it's easy for those of us without sin to cast stones, it's fair to say Jayson is a man of extremes.
Reminder that while we cast adulation on former players who root for us on social media, William's as a former NBA star was a frequent attendee at sju games. He unabashedly was on his feet rooting, waving his arms, yelling, and supporting our guys.
Also would remind fans that jayson made what I believe is the biggest donation any former athlete made to sju. If memory serves me. He donated $1 million to the school, no small amount for anyone.
Yes, his extremely reckless, thoughtless murder of a man, even if accidental, destroyed a life. It's nice to say you've prayed for that man and his family, but if I had to guess, jayson has spent far more remorseful moments than all the people offering prayers combined. He did offer a civil settlement with his family that was accepted.
To their credit, sju has quietly not abandoned Jayson through his tribulations.
A friend of mine who volunteers in prison ministries once told me that convicts are often eternally branded by the worst moment of their lives consummated in a few seconds. Certainly substances have caused Jayson to make some pretty horrible decisions, but without those few seconds, and maybe even with them, many of you would shake his hand or get an autograph from him for your kid even today.[/quote]
I would prefer to ignore you but as usual that is an absolute crock of your holier than thou nonsense. It was well known how many “near misses” Williams had with loaded guns and excessive drinking. It was only a matter of time until there was a disaster. More than a few people I know stopped going to Williams’ after hours “parties” because of the insanity of his penchant for mixing drink and guns. I don’t care how much money he donated nor how much you idolize because of athletic ability, he was a tragedy waiting to happen.[/quote]
I would call Fuchsia's response educated. Yours, however, well, I'd call something else. Now go say your first prayer for the victim to keep yourself honest.
Whatever the circumstance, rooting for a recovery for Jayson neither condones or absolves him of his behavior. Substance addiction has contributed to destroying his life, and while it's easy for those of us without sin to cast stones, it's fair to say Jayson is a man of extremes.
Reminder that while we cast adulation on former players who root for us on social media, William's as a former NBA star was a frequent attendee at sju games. He unabashedly was on his feet rooting, waving his arms, yelling, and supporting our guys.
Also would remind fans that jayson made what I believe is the biggest donation any former athlete made to sju. If memory serves me. He donated $1 million to the school, no small amount for anyone.
Yes, his extremely reckless, thoughtless murder of a man, even if accidental, destroyed a life. It's nice to say you've prayed for that man and his family, but if I had to guess, jayson has spent far more remorseful moments than all the people offering prayers combined. He did offer a civil settlement with his family that was accepted.
To their credit, sju has quietly not abandoned Jayson through his tribulations.
A friend of mine who volunteers in prison ministries once told me that convicts are often eternally branded by the worst moment of their lives consummated in a few seconds. Certainly substances have caused Jayson to make some pretty horrible decisions, but without those few seconds, and maybe even with them, many of you would shake his hand or get an autograph from him for your kid even today.[/quote]
I would prefer to ignore you but as usual that is an absolute crock of your holier than thou nonsense. It was well known how many “near misses” Williams had with loaded guns and excessive drinking. It was only a matter of time until there was a disaster. More than a few people I know stopped going to Williams’ after hours “parties” because of the insanity of his penchant for mixing drink and guns. I don’t care how much money he donated nor how much you idolize because of athletic ability, he was a tragedy waiting to happen.[/quote]
I would call Fuchsia's response educated. Yours, however, well, I'd call something else. Now go say your first prayer for the victim to keep yourself honest.
[quote="Beast of the East" post=356502][quote="Logen" post=356497][quote="Beast of the East" post=356488]Substance abuse cause people under the influence to do things they'd never consider when sober - like taunting someone with a loaded gun, or perhaps thinking it was outrageously funny to squeeze off a shot in the general direction of someone intending to miss him.
Whatever the circumstance, rooting for a recovery for Jayson neither condones or absolves him of his behavior. Substance addiction has contributed to destroying his life, and while it's easy for those of us without sin to cast stones, it's fair to say Jayson is a man of extremes.
Reminder that while we cast adulation on former players who root for us on social media, William's as a former NBA star was a frequent attendee at sju games. He unabashedly was on his feet rooting, waving his arms, yelling, and supporting our guys.
Also would remind fans that jayson made what I believe is the biggest donation any former athlete made to sju. If memory serves me. He donated $1 million to the school, no small amount for anyone.
Yes, his extremely reckless, thoughtless murder of a man, even if accidental, destroyed a life. It's nice to say you've prayed for that man and his family, but if I had to guess, jayson has spent far more remorseful moments than all the people offering prayers combined. He did offer a civil settlement with his family that was accepted.
To their credit, sju has quietly not abandoned Jayson through his tribulations.
A friend of mine who volunteers in prison ministries once told me that convicts are often eternally branded by the worst moment of their lives consummated in a few seconds. Certainly substances have caused Jayson to make some pretty horrible decisions, but without those few seconds, and maybe even with them, many of you would shake his hand or get an autograph from him for your kid even today.[/quote]
I would prefer to ignore you but as usual that is an absolute crock of your holier than thou nonsense. It was well known how many “near misses” Williams had with loaded guns and excessive drinking. It was only a matter of time until there was a disaster. More than a few people I know stopped going to Williams’ after hours “parties” because of the insanity of his penchant for mixing drink and guns. I don’t care how much money he donated nor how much you idolize because of athletic ability, he was a tragedy waiting to happen.[/quote]
I would call Fuchsia's response educated. Yours, however, well, I'd call something else. Now go say your first prayer for the victim to keep yourself honest.[/quote]
I don’t care what you call anything. Your posts ooze phoniness and arrogance. I know this guy who did this, I know that guy who did that, yeah right, sure, ok, whatever. I asked you to ignore my posts when you accused me of being a racist because as usual you had nothing but sociological psychobabble nonsense to go to but if you keep throwing crap at me in thinly disguised posts I will keep replying. So ignore me, please. If you can excuse killing someone while playing with loaded guns on their drinking I can only assume you think every drunken driver that ever killer someone gets excused. Bullspit..
Whatever the circumstance, rooting for a recovery for Jayson neither condones or absolves him of his behavior. Substance addiction has contributed to destroying his life, and while it's easy for those of us without sin to cast stones, it's fair to say Jayson is a man of extremes.
Reminder that while we cast adulation on former players who root for us on social media, William's as a former NBA star was a frequent attendee at sju games. He unabashedly was on his feet rooting, waving his arms, yelling, and supporting our guys.
Also would remind fans that jayson made what I believe is the biggest donation any former athlete made to sju. If memory serves me. He donated $1 million to the school, no small amount for anyone.
Yes, his extremely reckless, thoughtless murder of a man, even if accidental, destroyed a life. It's nice to say you've prayed for that man and his family, but if I had to guess, jayson has spent far more remorseful moments than all the people offering prayers combined. He did offer a civil settlement with his family that was accepted.
To their credit, sju has quietly not abandoned Jayson through his tribulations.
A friend of mine who volunteers in prison ministries once told me that convicts are often eternally branded by the worst moment of their lives consummated in a few seconds. Certainly substances have caused Jayson to make some pretty horrible decisions, but without those few seconds, and maybe even with them, many of you would shake his hand or get an autograph from him for your kid even today.[/quote]
I would prefer to ignore you but as usual that is an absolute crock of your holier than thou nonsense. It was well known how many “near misses” Williams had with loaded guns and excessive drinking. It was only a matter of time until there was a disaster. More than a few people I know stopped going to Williams’ after hours “parties” because of the insanity of his penchant for mixing drink and guns. I don’t care how much money he donated nor how much you idolize because of athletic ability, he was a tragedy waiting to happen.[/quote]
I would call Fuchsia's response educated. Yours, however, well, I'd call something else. Now go say your first prayer for the victim to keep yourself honest.[/quote]
I don’t care what you call anything. Your posts ooze phoniness and arrogance. I know this guy who did this, I know that guy who did that, yeah right, sure, ok, whatever. I asked you to ignore my posts when you accused me of being a racist because as usual you had nothing but sociological psychobabble nonsense to go to but if you keep throwing crap at me in thinly disguised posts I will keep replying. So ignore me, please. If you can excuse killing someone while playing with loaded guns on their drinking I can only assume you think every drunken driver that ever killer someone gets excused. Bullspit..
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