IT IS A BIT IRONIC.....

[dee]

For years I remember people complaining that the st johns offense was too slow, no one wanted to play here, they wanted to run and gun and put the points on the board. So now we run and gun and we score 47 points in a game. There is something to be said for playing under control and not turning the ball over. This team turns the ball over too much, and definitely does not play under any control, running up the court and heaving shots up. That might be a good game plan with Dr J, Michael Jordan or Pistol Pete but not with this bunch.

 

[beast of the east]

For years I remember people complaining that the st johns offense was too slow, no one wanted to play here, they wanted to run and gun and put the points on the board. So now we run and gun and we score 47 points in a game. There is something to be said for playing under control and not turning the ball over. This team turns the ball over too much, and definitely does not play under any control, running up the court and heaving shots up. That might be a good game plan with Dr J, Michael Jordan or Pistol Pete but not with this bunch.

Yea, we run like a lot. I like the idea of running, because it creates a lot of 3 on 2's, 2 on 1's. Even a 5 on 4 or 4 on 3 has it's advantages. However, I've never seen a running team that so rarely takes the ball all the way to the hole. Our team LOVES to pull up on the run and fire off balance, often contested shots from far away. What they also don't know is that there is nothing wrong and everything right with pushing the ball up court, and then when no advantage materializes, to go into your half court offense. Of course this takes disciplined guards, and one thing we don't have in Harrison and Greene, are disciplined guards.

 

[otis]

StJ's has very good athletes but as a group they have yet to prove that they are very good basketball players.

Former Knick and Braves General Manager was fond of saying that a team did not need the best basketball players to win but rather it needed the players that play best together.

Hopefully this bunch of players and coaches learn from this season and their collective basketball IQs improve next season.

I will cheer for StJ's first and foremost but going into the Tournaments I will also cheer that the C7 teams defeat every ACC and nBE team they play.

 

[thetux1]

Does Harrison ever take open jump shots. I swear everytime he hoists a shot he's closely guarded or 10 ft behind the line

 

[Moose]

Does Harrison ever take open jump shots. I swear everytime he hoists a shot he's closely guarded or 10 ft behind the line

Today is not the day I want to sound like President of the Harrison fan club after that egg he laid yesterday. But what does that say about the rest of the team if his shots are all contested? The offense is painful and its 30 seconds of twiddling thumbs but if nobody else can get open or keep a defense honest, him taking that shot is unfortunately our only chance.

 

[MJDinkins]

This team turns the ball over too much, and definitely does not play under any control

The team only averages 11.5 turnovers a game, and are 4th in the Big East in turnover margin. IMO, that isn't really a team that turns the ball over often. Many coaches will tell you that is fairly decent when it comes to turnovers.

Playing under control is something they don't do well.

 

[simplyred]

We ran the same offense against Pitt as we did against South Florida. It works better against inferior competition than it does against superior competition. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[logen]

This team turns the ball over too much, and definitely does not play under any control

The team only averages 11.5 turnovers a game, and are 4th in the Big East in turnover margin. IMO, that isn't really a team that turns the ball over often. Many coaches will tell you that is fairly decent when it comes to turnovers.

Playing under control is something they don't do well.

And here's where stats lie. We don't turn the ball over , true, but the biggest reason IMO is because we take the first shot that shows almost all the time, not because we run efficient offense.

 

[Moose]

This team turns the ball over too much, and definitely does not play under any control

The team only averages 11.5 turnovers a game, and are 4th in the Big East in turnover margin. IMO, that isn't really a team that turns the ball over often. Many coaches will tell you that is fairly decent when it comes to turnovers.

Playing under control is something they don't do well.

And here's where stats lie. We don't turn the ball over , true, but the biggest reason IMO is because we take the first shot that shows almost all the time, not because we run efficient offense.

Thats not right. We waste 33 seconds dribbling just as much if not more than the first rushed shot.

 

[austour]

This team turns the ball over too much, and definitely does not play under any control

The team only averages 11.5 turnovers a game, and are 4th in the Big East in turnover margin. IMO, that isn't really a team that turns the ball over often. Many coaches will tell you that is fairly decent when it comes to turnovers.

Playing under control is something they don't do well.

Don't disagree with a couple of the comments above why this stat might be a bit misleading but the 11.5 TO/game ranks 26th in all of Div 1, certainly the only offensive category that the team is in the top 10% of all schools in.

And to qualify, I didn't see the game, haven't read the game thread yet nor anything else about the game (though I guess I should be looking forward to the game thread based on the Moose Manifesto thread) so this is just a factual comment not meant to be editorial at all. Very busy day yesterday.

 

[logen]

This team turns the ball over too much, and definitely does not play under any control

The team only averages 11.5 turnovers a game, and are 4th in the Big East in turnover margin. IMO, that isn't really a team that turns the ball over often. Many coaches will tell you that is fairly decent when it comes to turnovers.

Playing under control is something they don't do well.

And here's where stats lie. We don't turn the ball over , true, but the biggest reason IMO is because we take the first shot that shows almost all the time, not because we run efficient offense.

Thats not right. We waste 33 seconds dribbling just as much if not more than the first rushed shot.

Well, sometimes it takes 33 seconds of aimless dribbling before we get the first bad shot to take. And while we don't have good playmakers, we evidently do have good aimless dribblers.

 

[redmen2014champs]

For years I remember people complaining that the st johns offense was too slow, no one wanted to play here, they wanted to run and gun and put the points on the board. So now we run and gun and we score 47 points in a game. There is something to be said for playing under control and not turning the ball over. This team turns the ball over too much, and definitely does not play under any control, running up the court and heaving shots up. That might be a good game plan with Dr J, Michael Jordan or Pistol Pete but not with this bunch.

I have been to almost every home game and I have to say we are watching two different Redmen teams or we have vastly different definitions of running and gunning. They do not get out on the break very often even though they should and even on possessions that they push the ball up the floor they don't attack the basket early in the possession when they may have the opportunity. I agree with Moose that a large percentage of their possessions amount to aimlessly passing the ball around the perimeter until someone is forced to take a forced, contested shot late. I would like to see actual running and gunning because they have the athletes to do it and it is usually the best chance to get some easy baskets, which they sorely need with their inconsistent outside shooting. They also need to play mostly man to man which will lead to a greater amount of transition opportunities. Finally, turnovers have not been what has hurting this team in my opinion, no real plan on offense is what has hurt them the most.

 

[beast of the east]

Does Harrison ever take open jump shots. I swear everytime he hoists a shot he's closely guarded or 10 ft behind the line

Today is not the day I want to sound like President of the Harrison fan club after that egg he laid yesterday. But what does that say about the rest of the team if his shots are all contested? The offense is painful and its 30 seconds of twiddling thumbs but if nobody else can get open or keep a defense honest, him taking that shot is unfortunately our only chance.

The fastest way to turn a halfcourt offense into molasses motion is for guys to hoist up bad shots that are contested, well beyond the arc, with plenty of shot clock left, or as soon as they touch the ball. The rest of the team stands around because they know if they make a good cut, they may not see ball. The perplexing thing is that I believe that Harrison has EXCELLENT court vision, and can spot guys open under the basket. I think his problem is that he has unbridled confidence in himself from anywhere, and forces the issue trying to ignite the team.

 

[Redfaced]

Does Harrison ever take open jump shots. I swear everytime he hoists a shot he's closely guarded or 10 ft behind the line

Today is not the day I want to sound like President of the Harrison fan club after that egg he laid yesterday. But what does that say about the rest of the team if his shots are all contested? The offense is painful and its 30 seconds of twiddling thumbs but if nobody else can get open or keep a defense honest, him taking that shot is unfortunately our only chance.

When you say,"rest of the team", are you referring to the players or the coaching staff. We have been watching the same fruitless offense all season and at this point, I realy don't think it's on the players. Some buddies of mine actually believe that the team played better at the start of the season in the South Carolina tourney then they are playing now.

The sad thing is when it comes to talent alone, I don't really think that teams such as Nova, Pitt, and even Louisville have more talent then we do.Pitts offensive style and game plan certainly made us look bad but they didn't win by a superior talented bunch of players. And I really hope that people are still not buying into the young team argument any more.

 

[Moose]

Does Harrison ever take open jump shots. I swear everytime he hoists a shot he's closely guarded or 10 ft behind the line

Today is not the day I want to sound like President of the Harrison fan club after that egg he laid yesterday. But what does that say about the rest of the team if his shots are all contested? The offense is painful and its 30 seconds of twiddling thumbs but if nobody else can get open or keep a defense honest, him taking that shot is unfortunately our only chance.

When you say,"rest of the team", are you referring to the players or the coaching staff. We have been watching the same fruitless offense all season and at this point, I realy don't think it's on the players. Some buddies of mine actually believe that the team played better at the start of the season in the South Carolina tourney then they are playing now.

The sad thing is when it comes to talent alone, I don't really think that teams such as Nova, Pitt, and even Louisville have more talent then we do.Pitts offensive style and game plan certainly made us look bad but they didn't win by a superior talented bunch of players. And I really hope that people are still not buying into the young team argument any more.

When I say the team I mean the players. The coaches are not and should be not immune from blame either. I posted in some other thread maybe on another board how the players are still too raw. Thought we had development guys on staff?

 

[beast of the east]

Does Harrison ever take open jump shots. I swear everytime he hoists a shot he's closely guarded or 10 ft behind the line

Today is not the day I want to sound like President of the Harrison fan club after that egg he laid yesterday. But what does that say about the rest of the team if his shots are all contested? The offense is painful and its 30 seconds of twiddling thumbs but if nobody else can get open or keep a defense honest, him taking that shot is unfortunately our only chance.

When you say,"rest of the team", are you referring to the players or the coaching staff. We have been watching the same fruitless offense all season and at this point, I realy don't think it's on the players. Some buddies of mine actually believe that the team played better at the start of the season in the South Carolina tourney then they are playing now.

The sad thing is when it comes to talent alone, I don't really think that teams such as Nova, Pitt, and even Louisville have more talent then we do.Pitts offensive style and game plan certainly made us look bad but they didn't win by a superior talented bunch of players. And I really hope that people are still not buying into the young team argument any more.

When I say the team I mean the players. The coaches are not and should be not immune from blame either. I posted in some other thread maybe on another board how the players are still too raw. Thought we had development guys on staff?

The problem is we don't have a lot of talented offensive players. When we were winning, I was somewhat critical because i didn't like what I saw. We were winning ugly, with a lot of energy athelticism, and with Branch, a smoother flow, but far from crisp. I do agree that our offensive sets are horrible. What I wouldn't do for a Stockton/Malone pick and roll, or a bone crushing pick set when Marco cruises the baseline, or anything that resembled great passing on a consistent basis. When you are missing pieces to a puzzle, sometimes its hard to see what the final product can be. We have some major pieces to a winning team, and when we add more pieces, can be a top 20 team.