Fouls and the Refs

D

dee

Well-known member
It just seems to me more and more that our players get fouled and there are no calls. Harrison has been getting banged up under the basket when he tries to shoot and there is almost never a foul called. Is it because he has a bad reputation with the refs from his first year or two in the league? Obeka said he was fouled three times before hitting the Butler player the other night. It doesnt justify what he did but why wasnt a foul called on Butler. It seems the refs only see fouls when they want to when st johns is on the floor. I believe it is up to Lavin to step up on this and make his anger known. He doesnt need to be Bobby Knight and throwing chairs although at this point maybe he should. But he needs to get into the refs ears. Forget diplomacy and nice guy talk, these refs are abusing st johns all season.
I happened to be reading the Lapchick book and it is mentioned that when he played with the Celtics if one of their players received a dirty type of foul, they would gang up on that player and bang him around. We should do the same now. It is time to stop being pushed around and not worry about losing a player and a game because of fouls.
To paraphrase what Sean Connery said in the Untouchables- they hit one of ours, we take two of theirs (actually think he said we send two of them to the morgue but I am not advocating that lol). We dont have anything to lose at this point. The only way they see the big dance is by winning the BET
 
It just seems to me more and more that our players get fouled and there are no calls. Harrison has been getting banged up under the basket when he tries to shoot and there is almost never a foul called. Is it because he has a bad reputation with the refs from his first year or two in the league? Obeka said he was fouled three times before hitting the Butler player the other night. It doesnt justify what he did but why wasnt a foul called on Butler. It seems the refs only see fouls when they want to when st johns is on the floor. I believe it is up to Lavin to step up on this and make his anger known. He doesnt need to be Bobby Knight and throwing chairs although at this point maybe he should. But he needs to get into the refs ears. Forget diplomacy and nice guy talk, these refs are abusing st johns all season.
I happened to be reading the Lapchick book and it is mentioned that when he played with the Celtics if one of their players received a dirty type of foul, they would gang up on that player and bang him around. We should do the same now. It is time to stop being pushed around and not worry about losing a player and a game because of fouls.
To paraphrase what Sean Connery said in the Untouchables- they hit one of ours, we take two of theirs (actually think he said we send two of them to the morgue but I am not advocating that lol). We dont have anything to lose at this point. The only way they see the big dance is by winning the BET
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I don't see the refs as an issue. The problem is the hole we dig for ourselves, and the fact we need every call to go our way because we can't score in bunches since we can't shoot threes.
 
I posted something similar last night, and was swiftly admonished. I don't think there will ever be a consensus on here that the refs are "out to get us". I also don't believe it either, that there is a vast conspiracy against us.

But the top tier teams, or better yet, revenue producing teams, and their marquee players, get coddled and carried by the officials. To say that all this realignment, the synergistic relationship between the ACC, ESPN and the NCAA, the billions of dollars generated by teams like Duke, doesn't influence officials is crazy. It has to. Duke gets 10 more free throws per game than the opposition. I imagine Cuse and Kansas have a similar cushion.

When Steve Wojciechowski was playing it was blatantly obvious. The guy hacked the opposing point guard to pieces every time down the floor, rarely fouled out, was praised as a veracious defender, and was leader in steals. But on any mid-major team he would have spent his entire career in foul trouble, and warming the bench. Just my opinion based on how I watched him play and get away with murder , and I know he was an all-American.

I know most will disagree. Still, I've never seen such disparity in officiating between top teams and mid-majors (like us). Duke, Cuse and Kansas are brands. I don't think its a conspiracy against us, but the NCAA looks out for its brand names, not us.
 
Refs have been inconsistent all year. Like a CYO game where the regular refs did not show and they grabbed some player's fathers from the stands.
 
As fans we are always going to dislike refs. I too am guilty of the obscenity tirade every once in a while, wishing the refs would just put their expletive whistles away.

What is tough for us is we as a team are helped by loose officiating. We are a gambling team on defense so we benefit when we refs are loose with handchecking or let a little contact go on steals and blocks. Our team is almost to the point where if they played in the ACC everyone would foul out.

Bulter was an annoying example, it did seem one sided. I was more angry about the quick fouls on D'lo than CO objections. To be honest, CO has to be more sneaky. Although I don't condone elbows to the head, if you're getting banged under the boards, bang back and if some one catches something during an aggressive basketball play so be it.

Finally, if they take out 1 of ours we take two of theirs isn't the best strategy because we only have 6 guys with real BE experience, we have to do like a 1 to 4 ratio.
 
I posted something similar last night, and was swiftly admonished. I don't think there will ever be a consensus on here that the refs are "out to get us". I also don't believe it either, that there is a vast conspiracy against us.

But the top tier teams, or better yet, revenue producing teams, and their marquee players, get coddled and carried by the officials. To say that all this realignment, the synergistic relationship between the ACC, ESPN and the NCAA, the billions of dollars generated by teams like Duke, doesn't influence officials is crazy. It has to. Duke gets 10 more free throws per game than the opposition. I imagine Cuse and Kansas have a similar cushion.

When Steve Wojciechowski was playing it was blatantly obvious. The guy hacked the opposing point guard to pieces every time down the floor, rarely fouled out, was praised as a veracious defender, and was leader in steals. But on any mid-major team he would have spent his entire career in foul trouble, and warming the bench. Just my opinion based on how I watched him play and get away with murder , and I know he was an all-American.

I know most will disagree. Still, I've never seen such disparity in officiating between top teams and mid-majors (like us). Duke, Cuse and Kansas are brands. I don't think its a conspiracy against us, but the NCAA looks out for its brand names, not us.
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It's just a coach K Duke thing. I give him credit for earning his 10MM salary by intimidating refs and league officials on behalf of his program

On one other point. If SJU is a mid major what is Iona or Hofstra or Uconn?
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we have way more fouls called for us than against us this season.
 
I'm sorry but I don't see the refs as an issue at all. Reffing is bad period; most of them work way too many games and are not of an age or physical condition to keep up with the game. Do some programs get better treatment than others; yes but that is the reality. It has filtered down from the NBA which there is no doubt in my mind directly influence refs when it comes to superstar treatment. In college the superstars are the coaches. In my mind, it is the Jordan syndrome cause that's where it started. It used to be a viable strategy in the NBA to try and get the other teams star in foul trouble; in the modern era don't even bother. We get calls, we don't get calls, but when you lose every bad call against you becomes a conspiracy. We really only have one player who plays through contact and that is Harrison. Jordan to a lesser extent because he sometimes avoids contact as do all our other players going to the hole and refs almost never give you the call if you are avoiding contact. Frankly, with only 6 players we have not had an inordinate amount of foul trouble that has afffected game outcomes. I'm not saying we haven't had any but with the style of defense we play I would have expected it to have been a lot worse.
 
This is ridiculous. Harrison has shot 143 FTs this year., you'll be hard pressed to find someone who shot more. pinkston for example leads Nova with 124 and he plays at the basket not the perimeter. Henton leads Prov with 134. if anything Harrison gets too many calls
 
This is ridiculous. Harrison has shot 143 FTs this year., you'll be hard pressed to find someone who shot more. pinkston for example leads Nova with 124 and he plays at the basket not the perimeter. Henton leads Prov with 134. if anything Harrison gets too many calls
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Harrison draws more contact than both those guys and it's more noticeable when he's smaller going up against a bunch of trees. It's not like he only shoots from the outside. His game is a lot of taking it down low to draw contact and get to the line. . He's like a bull down low and there are actually a lot of plays he doesn't get calls where he could.

Personally other than a couple games the ref's don't drive me too nuts other than a ply or 2 each game but I agree with Logen that in general the ref's just suck
 
This is ridiculous. Harrison has shot 143 FTs this year., you'll be hard pressed to find someone who shot more. pinkston for example leads Nova with 124 and he plays at the basket not the perimeter. Henton leads Prov with 134. if anything Harrison gets too many calls
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Harrison draws more contact than both those guys and it's more noticeable when he's smaller going up against a bunch of trees. It's not like he only shoots from the outside. His game is a lot of taking it down low to draw contact and get to the line. . He's like a bull down low and there are actually a lot of plays he doesn't get calls where he could.

Personally other than a couple games the ref's don't drive me too nuts other than a ply or 2 each game but I agree with Logen that in general the ref's just suck
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I don't disagree with anything you said but I still think it's ridiculous to think the guy leading the Big East in FTS by a fairly wide margin somehow isn't getting his share of calls. The numbers don't lie
 
This is ridiculous. Harrison has shot 143 FTs this year., you'll be hard pressed to find someone who shot more. pinkston for example leads Nova with 124 and he plays at the basket not the perimeter. Henton leads Prov with 134. if anything Harrison gets too many calls
Click to expand...

Harrison draws more contact than both those guys and it's more noticeable when he's smaller going up against a bunch of trees. It's not like he only shoots from the outside. His game is a lot of taking it down low to draw contact and get to the line. . He's like a bull down low and there are actually a lot of plays he doesn't get calls where he could.

Personally other than a couple games the ref's don't drive me too nuts other than a ply or 2 each game but I agree with Logen that in general the ref's just suck
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I don't disagree with anything you said but I still think it's ridiculous to think the guy leading the Big East in FTS by a fairly wide margin somehow isn't getting his share of calls. The numbers don't lie
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But they don't tell the whole story, either.
 
I agree that the refs really don't make too much of a difference for us this year. It tends to even out in the end.

But I also agree with the OP's point that some programs do get treated differently than others when there are violations. But that's a topic for another thread.
 
As a fan I think every time our guys drive to the hoop, they get fouled.

I think every time our guys stop someone down low and a foul is called that it's not a foul.

Every offensive foul called on us is a block

Every block called against us is a charge.

Just being a fan - you don't need to be objective.
 
As fans we are always going to dislike refs. I too am guilty of the obscenity tirade every once in a while, wishing the refs would just put their expletive whistles away.

What is tough for us is we as a team are helped by loose officiating. We are a gambling team on defense so we benefit when we refs are loose with handchecking or let a little contact go on steals and blocks. Our team is almost to the point where if they played in the ACC everyone would foul out.

Bulter was an annoying example, it did seem one sided. I was more angry about the quick fouls on D'lo than CO objections. To be honest, CO has to be more sneaky. Although I don't condone elbows to the head, if you're getting banged under the boards, bang back and if some one catches something during an aggressive basketball play so be it.

Finally, if they take out 1 of ours we take two of theirs isn't the best strategy because we only have 6 guys with real BE experience, we have to do like a 1 to 4 ratio.
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we dont need to have our top 6 foul if we want to hammer away at someone on the other team. Send in some of the subs to be enforcers. It is time that we step up to the plate on this and that Lavin chews out these refs. I mean we dont even get any "home court" calls
 
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